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Kochs to withhold millions for health care 'yes' votes

Winston said:
Posts like these and other ones in this thread that back up Citizen's United make me scratch my head. How did Trump get the brick vote? People who support CU don't want to shake things up. But, people who support Trump do. Trump's just as much a part of the duopoly as Hillary Clinton was.

Look no farther than what's happening with Health Care "Reform" right now. It's standard Republican operating procedure. Cut benefits for the poor, funnel the money to the rich. Trump is a fake reformer. The status quo rolled sevens with Trump. Trumps not going to do anything to help average people. The ****ing Obamaphone did more for America.
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That is a ridiculous claim filtered through the noise machine on the left. It remains to be seen what an Obamacare replacement will look like, if it actually gets past Congress.

This SOP you mention is just a sound bite. President Trump is attempting to put through policies and agendas that will have a greater impact on the poor, than the left has been able to muster in 30 years.

The left wants to provide a few more bucks here and there. President Trump wants to provide an opportunity for a career and a future.

It's obvious why that scares the hell out of the left. No dependents, fewer votes. Which way do think voters are leaning? Election results answer that question.
 
JumpinJack said:
Uh-oh.

The clash of the Titans. The Koch Brothers are directly challenging Trump's power. Who is more powerful? The Koch Brothers or Trump (who could end up being removed from office)?
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That's what I hate about politicians the most. It's all about campaign contributions and how they can be bought. Don't people get that that is one of the reasons Trump got elected? I don't like the current bill either and hope for a no vote, but not because of them being bought.
 
JumpinJack said:
Uh-oh.

The clash of the Titans. The Koch Brothers are directly challenging Trump's power. Who is more powerful? The Koch Brothers or Trump (who could end up being removed from office)?
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It's not a mystery here: The Koch brothers will win. Money always wins in our system, so whatever Trump wants will not matter.
 
ocean515 said:
Obamacare was a lie, forced down the throats of all citizens, through a unilateral, one sided vote. It was a sham and it' falling apart, as predicted. We'll see what the fix looks like, if it actually takes place. That fix requires Congress to act. If it doesn't, then the continuing collapse of Obamacare resides completely within the party that created it. There is nothing regressive about people seeking to remain within the principles of Constitution. The precious "regressive" label the alt-left likes to get it's followers to spread has no basis in reality. I suggest people be more concerned with the Fascism that has become dominate on the left, as it embarks on offensives that seek to destroy anything and anyone who doesn't toe the party line.
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the ACA, which people want, was badly damaged by states refusing to participate. I agree it isn't the be all end all but as we watch the Regressives (after a near decade of 'opposition') can't agree on what to do about it, I have to laugh at Ryan's attempt to do the EXACT SAME THING.... :roll:

No the fault will pass to the GOP, you seem to think if a house fire starts because of a knocked over space heater and the fire fighters just stand there watching they are blameless. The Regressives ran on repeal and replace, not watch it fall apart... ya don't seem capable of admitting the facts.

'Remaining' under the principles- an empty claim. the regressives want to use the government to enforce religious tenants, put religious objects in, on and around government buildings. Want to dictate who can marry, get between a doctor and his patient and it ALL gets shot down as UNCONSTITUTIONAL.... :doh

Rich propaganda coming from the party that threw many of it's veteran politicians out for not toeing it's party line.... :peace
 
notquiteright said:
the ACA, which people want, was badly damaged by states refusing to participate. I agree it isn't the be all end all but as we watch the Regressives (after a near decade of 'opposition') can't agree on what to do about it, I have to laugh at Ryan's attempt to do the EXACT SAME THING.... :roll:

No the fault will pass to the GOP, you seem to think if a house fire starts because of a knocked over space heater and the fire fighters just stand there watching they are blameless. The Regressives ran on repeal and replace, not watch it fall apart... ya don't seem capable of admitting the facts.

'Remaining' under the principles- an empty claim. the regressives want to use the government to enforce religious tenants, put religious objects in, on and around government buildings. Want to dictate who can marry, get between a doctor and his patient and it ALL gets shot down as UNCONSTITUTIONAL.... :doh

Rich propaganda coming from the party that threw many of it's veteran politicians out for not toeing it's party line.... :peace
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So if Obamacare collapses, it's the GOP's fault?

You realize the claim "leftists never take responsibility" was just strengthened by your claim.

GOP = Fix our F Up on the country, or you are to blame for what happens.

Too funny.
 
Winston said:
That is nonsense. CU benefits the rich donor class, not your average guy who believes that climate change is real and we need to do something about it. CU benefits ETP who stands to make billions by pushing climate change denial, that they use to lobby congress to legislate on their behalf.

Since you and Crovaxe here:



Believe so strongly in the Citizen's voice, you must be huge supporters of workers unions. Citizens pooling their resources together to bargain for better wages and more benefits.
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Of course. Unions are people too (the real problem there is they force people to be a part of it). And the idea that CU benefits the rich donor class is nonsense. It benefits everyone. Heck, the CU case was about a NON PROFIT.
 
FieldTheorist said:
It's not a mystery here: The Koch brothers will win. Money always wins in our system, so whatever Trump wants will not matter.
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In the end, votes win. No one forces anyone to vote one way or other. They choose to. Do YOU vote based on who spends more money?
 
ocean515 said:
That is a ridiculous claim filtered through the noise machine on the left. It remains to be seen what an Obamacare replacement will look like, if it actually gets past Congress.

This SOP you mention is just a sound bite. President Trump is attempting to put through policies and agendas that will have a greater impact on the poor, than the left has been able to muster in 30 years.

The left wants to provide a few more bucks here and there. President Trump wants to provide an opportunity for a career and a future.

It's obvious why that scares the hell out of the left. No dependents, fewer votes. Which way do think voters are leaning? Election results answer that question.
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What are his policy proposals?
 
jonny5 said:
In the end, votes win. No one forces anyone to vote one way or other. They choose to. Do YOU vote based on who spends more money?
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This is an argument totally removed from reality. If someone funds your campaign, and you have to do one every two years, then you do what they tell you to. The question you want to ask is, "If your boss tells you to do something, and they pay for your life, do you do what they ask?"

Yes, yes you do.
 
FieldTheorist said:
This is an argument totally removed from reality. If someone funds your campaign, and you have to do one every two years, then you do what they tell you to. The question you want to ask is, "If your boss tells you to do something, and they pay for your life, do you do what they ask?"

Yes, yes you do.
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Lets stay away from metaphors and stick to reality. A politician is not held at gunpoint. If they do what a supporter tells them, thats a choice. Just like its a choice for voters to keep re-electing people who appear to do what doners tell them.
 
Redress said:
Sometimes, at the end of the day, you just have to sit back and be thankful it is the other guys this time.
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It sure is breath of fresh air, isn't it old friend? And we complained when he worst Republicans had was that Obama had named the wrong uncle at the wrong concentration camp. These days, that seems like a breeze.
 
jonny5 said:
In the end, votes win. No one forces anyone to vote one way or other. They choose to. Do YOU vote based on who spends more money?
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Were you not educated as a child? Marketing is taught in Elementary school. They cover all the basics on how marketing influences consumers.
So yes, every one of us is influenced indirectly by money spent on (any number of things marketed to us).

You can limit it, put a cap on each race, and fund it via tax, or you are left with a cluster ****. Your choice.
As someone pointed out, what's worse, Exxon spending to help a Republican who will free up the nations resource for them to pillage, or 99% donating pennies that add up to forcing the 1% to pay them "a living wage and retirement and healthcare and child care, etc., etc"
Neither are good, therefore...
 
jonny5 said:
I can tell youre not interested in civil debate.
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There was a lot of substance in his post to you. You are just cropping it out so you can use this as a way to dodge it.
 
notquiteright said:
So apparently you are under the impression the millions spent on both positive and, perhaps more to the point, negative ads have zero effect on the elections.

Free speech is one thing, but no freedom is limitless. Money isn't speech, equal access and all that.

Glad we cleared that up for you... :peace
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Bet you can't quote me saying any of that. What's that you can't and you just made all that up. How surprising
 
jonny5 said:
In the end, votes win. No one forces anyone to vote one way or other. They choose to. Do YOU vote based on who spends more money?
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This is exactly it. The biggest problem with our political system is not the money involved in it. It's that the majority of citizens in this country are to uneducated on politics, vote for whoevers letter matches the team they support or are simply to lazy to even vote. Fix that problem and the money spent won't matter that much.
 
braindrain said:
This is exactly it. The biggest problem with our political system is not the money involved in it. It's that the majority of citizens in this country are to uneducated on politics, vote for whoevers letter matches the team they support or are simply to lazy to even vote. Fix that problem and the money spent won't matter that much.
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And also reduce the power of govt. Less power, less power to corrupt.
 
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