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Electronics ban on flights to US is indefinite, applies to 8 Muslim-majority nations

Re: Electronics ban on flights to US is indefinite, applies to 8 Muslim-majority nati

Passengers on foreign airlines headed to the U.S. from 10 airports in eight majority-Muslim countries will have to check electronic devices larger than a cell phone - including laptops, tablets, cameras, travel printers - under new Homeland Security flight restrictions that took effect this morning. As Axios notes, an unnamed U.S. official told CNN the ban was related to al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula and that some information came from the recent U.S. special forces raid in Yemen

US Bans Laptops, iPads, 'Anything Bigger Than A Cellphone' On Flights From 8 'Majority-Muslim' Countries | Zero Hedge


Not banned, you have to check. and it seems to be coming from intel from that Yemen raid.


The ban interestingly enough includes saudi arabia.
 
Re: Electronics ban on flights to US is indefinite, applies to 8 Muslim-majority nati

Mycroft said:
QUICK!! Find a liberal court judge! THIS CANNOT STAND!!
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Electronic racism. :lol:
 
Re: Electronics ban on flights to US is indefinite, applies to 8 Muslim-majority nati

Mithros said:
This ban leaves me with some serious questions. What exactly are they trying to prevent? What's the goal? Because this seems like a strange way to prevent planes from falling out of the sky.

First, all laptops have very large lithium batteries. You are not allowed to check lithium batteries on flights as they pose a risk of fire. They have to be kept in the pressurized part of the cabin. So what possible risk outweighs putting multiple fire hazards in the cargo bay of a plane?

Second, laptops are already screened separately with their owners standing by(ie looking guilty). They already do random bomb swabs on laptops. Checking a laptop reduces the level of scrutiny. And the laptop is still going to be on the plane.

Whatever the threat is, it would have to be something that requires physical access while in the air(you can always wifi to a laptop in the cargo hold), is not detected by security, and outweighs a known fire risk that will eventually bring down a plane. And there's also the increase in thefts at baggage claim that are going to occur. And frankly, I'm not sure anything could possibly meet that criteria.

IMO, the two motivations I can see are possibly discouraging Muslims from traveling to the US (there's no way in hell I'd trust a laptop to baggage handlers) and more likely accessing their laptops to "gather intelligence" after it's been checked in.
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Hacking into the aircraft?
 
Re: Electronics ban on flights to US is indefinite, applies to 8 Muslim-majority nati

apdst said:
What's the big picture? Oh, I know, "Don Cheeto is stupidracistsexistnazirussianspy". Am I close?
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Nope. The big picture is that this ban is pointless because it won't make planes safer.
 
Re: Electronics ban on flights to US is indefinite, applies to 8 Muslim-majority nati

American said:
Hacking into the aircraft?
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Which you can do with a smartphone.

“It’s weird, because it doesn’t match a conventional threat model,” said Nicholas Weaver, researcher at the International Computer Science Institute at the University of California, Berkeley. “If you assume the attacker is interested in turning a laptop into a bomb, it would work just as well in the cargo hold.”

“If you’re worried about hacking, a cellphone is a computer.”
 
Re: Electronics ban on flights to US is indefinite, applies to 8 Muslim-majority nati

Aristaeus said:
Which you can do with a smartphone.

“It’s weird, because it doesn’t match a conventional threat model,” said Nicholas Weaver, researcher at the International Computer Science Institute at the University of California, Berkeley. “If you assume the attacker is interested in turning a laptop into a bomb, it would work just as well in the cargo hold.”

“If you’re worried about hacking, a cellphone is a computer.”
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Don't ask me, this looks like it was specifically identified by some intel org. Who else would get that specific?
 
Re: Electronics ban on flights to US is indefinite, applies to 8 Muslim-majority nati

American said:
Hacking into the aircraft?
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That's maybe how they're justifying it, but it doesn't make any technical sense. First, I'd be shocked if it was at all possible to hack into anything which could endanger the aircraft. Also, why would that only apply to certain airlines operating out of certain countries? Shouldn't it apply domestically as well? Why only select airlines from select countries?
 
Re: Electronics ban on flights to US is indefinite, applies to 8 Muslim-majority nati

American said:
Electronic racism. :lol:
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Next thing you know, they'll be making people take their freaking SHOES off!
 
Re: Electronics ban on flights to US is indefinite, applies to 8 Muslim-majority nati

American said:
Don't ask me, this looks like it was specifically identified by some intel org. Who else would get that specific?
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Is it even that specific? They can't answer how big a smartphone has to be before it becomes a tablet.
 
Re: Electronics ban on flights to US is indefinite, applies to 8 Muslim-majority nati

Mithros said:
That's maybe how they're justifying it, but it doesn't make any technical sense. First, I'd be shocked if it was at all possible to hack into anything which could endanger the aircraft. Also, why would that only apply to certain airlines operating out of certain countries? Shouldn't it apply domestically as well? Why only select airlines from select countries?
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Let's not get too carried away, lol.

This is a pretty stupid ban, in the end. It's not going to do anything, it addresses nothing. The biggest impact will be people trying to get work done on a flight or parents trying to keep their kids entertained. If it was expanded to domestic flights...are people really going to check their laptops? Seems like a good way for them to get stolen or broken. And do people really want to put up with the increase in fussy kids?
 
Re: Electronics ban on flights to US is indefinite, applies to 8 Muslim-majority nati

Ikari said:
Let's not get too carried away, lol.

This is a pretty stupid ban, in the end. It's not going to do anything, it addresses nothing. The biggest impact will be people trying to get work done on a flight or parents trying to keep their kids entertained. If it was expanded to domestic flights...are people really going to check their laptops? Seems like a good way for them to get stolen or broken. And do people really want to put up with the increase in fussy kids?
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I'm not advocating putting this on domestic airlines. It's more of a question of what possible threats could exist on laptops carried on certain airlines flying out of certain Muslim countries that wouldn't also exist domestically?

The problem is that if it's a ban that targets Muslim countries that achieves nothing except making it less likely that Muslims will visit the US.... then what are we to make of it? This is why you don't blow your credibility on stupid stuff.
 
Re: Electronics ban on flights to US is indefinite, applies to 8 Muslim-majority nati

American said:
Don't ask me, this looks like it was specifically identified by some intel org. Who else would get that specific?
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It now looks like the commonality between all of the airlines being targeted is that they're heavily subsidized by their governments. The most profitable passengers are business travelers that justify flying first class etc by working on flights. They'll almost certainly use US based carriers instead. This may be a case where questionable intelligence is being misused for economic advantage. If so, it's unlikely to be the last time.
 
Re: Electronics ban on flights to US is indefinite, applies to 8 Muslim-majority nati

Mithros said:
It now looks like the commonality between all of the airlines being targeted is that they're heavily subsidized by their governments. The most profitable passengers are business travelers that justify flying first class etc by working on flights. They'll almost certainly use US based carriers instead. This may be a case where questionable intelligence is being misused for economic advantage. If so, it's unlikely to be the last time.
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Okay, I'm going to have to say you're reaching. Come on.
 
Re: Electronics ban on flights to US is indefinite, applies to 8 Muslim-majority nati

Aristaeus said:
This is just another example of the Trump administration making it up as they go along.

"The US government’s unexpected ban on laptops, iPads and other electronics 'larger than a cellphone' on certain flights has sparked criticisms from technology experts, who say the new rules appear to be at odds with basic computer science."

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/mar/21/us-electronic-devices-ban-flights-tsa-airports
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Read article, and as a computer science expert I see nowhere in that article where such an order is "at odds with basic computer science". I see a weak straw man.. but that argument is at odds with basic logic.
 
Re: Electronics ban on flights to US is indefinite, applies to 8 Muslim-majority nati

jmotivator said:
Read article, and as a computer science expert I see nowhere in that article where such an order is "at odds with basic computer science". I see a weak straw man.. but that argument is at odds with basic logic.
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LOL...a cs "expert" who can't use a nyt link.
 
Re: Electronics ban on flights to US is indefinite, applies to 8 Muslim-majority nati

American said:
Okay, I'm going to have to say you're reaching. Come on.
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The Five Eyes share intelligence. The only other country to tighten regulations was the UK. That's odd.

The US bans laptops on flights from these airports
  • Cairo, Egypt;
  • Dubai and Abu Dhabi, U.A.E.;
  • Istanbul, Turkey;
  • Doha, Qatar;
  • Amman, Jordan;
  • Kuwait City; Casablanca, Morocco; and Jeddah and Riyadh, Saudi Arabia.

While the UK bans laptops on all flights from these countries.
  • Egypt,
  • Turkey,
  • Lebanon,
  • Jordan,
  • Tunisia
  • Saudi Arabia.

That's odd. They don't really overlap. The UK ban includes UK carriers, the US ban excludes any US carriers. The UK ban includes flights from all airports in a country, the US ban only targets individual airports. The US bans flights from Dubai and Abu Dhabi, but the UK allows them. The US allows flights from Lebanon and Tunisia, while the UK ban does not.

I mean, feel free to make a case of why there's a substantially different threat flying to the US out of Queen Alia International in Amman Jordan vs King Hussein in Aqaba Jordan. AA has a direct flight from Aqaba to JFK. Want to try and figure out why that's safe but these other airports aren't'?
 
Re: Electronics ban on flights to US is indefinite, applies to 8 Muslim-majority nati

Mithros said:
The Five Eyes share intelligence. The only other country to tighten regulations was the UK. That's odd.

The US bans laptops on flights from these airports
  • Cairo, Egypt;
  • Dubai and Abu Dhabi, U.A.E.;
  • Istanbul, Turkey;
  • Doha, Qatar;
  • Amman, Jordan;
  • Kuwait City; Casablanca, Morocco; and Jeddah and Riyadh, Saudi Arabia.

While the UK bans laptops on all flights from these countries.
  • Egypt,
  • Turkey,
  • Lebanon,
  • Jordan,
  • Tunisia
  • Saudi Arabia.

That's odd. They don't really overlap. The UK ban includes UK carriers, the US ban excludes any US carriers. The UK ban includes flights from all airports in a country, the US ban only targets individual airports. The US bans flights from Dubai and Abu Dhabi, but the UK allows them. The US allows flights from Lebanon and Tunisia, while the UK ban does not.

I mean, feel free to make a case of why there's a substantially different threat flying to the US out of Queen Alia International in Amman Jordan vs King Hussein in Aqaba Jordan. AA has a direct flight from Aqaba to JFK. Want to try and figure out why that's safe but these other airports aren't'?
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So how come the airline lobby didn't think of this before?
 
Re: Electronics ban on flights to US is indefinite, applies to 8 Muslim-majority nati

American said:
So how come the airline lobby didn't think of this before?
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Typically airlines don't get to set national security protocols.. But who knows now?


I really want this to not be the case.. because if it is we're spending currency that we can't ever get back.
 
Re: Electronics ban on flights to US is indefinite, applies to 8 Muslim-majority nati

American said:
Internal Error



I'd be interested to know what the relevance of the size of the electronic device is. They already scan laptops separately. Well at least they included Saudi Arabia this time, so we shouldn't hear complaining from the peanut gallery. :lol:
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Nevermind that a laptop-bomb could be just as dangerous in cargo as upstairs.


Seems like a really stupid move to me. I haven't heard a cogent defense of it.
 
Re: Electronics ban on flights to US is indefinite, applies to 8 Muslim-majority nati

Nobody seems to understand the motive for this ban. It almost seems to have been made arbitrarily.
 
Re: Electronics ban on flights to US is indefinite, applies to 8 Muslim-majority nati

cuban smokes said:
The Trump gubmint wants to make sure everyone gets Don Cheeto's multiple daily TwitterRage melt downs; only a cell phone is good enuff :2razz:
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You're blind hatred of Trump and calling him names only goes to show that your posts can't be taken seriously.
 
Re: Electronics ban on flights to US is indefinite, applies to 8 Muslim-majority nati

Gimmesometruth said:
LOL...a cs "expert" who can't use a nyt link.
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LOL. A CS expert who works as a CS expert in a highly secured building that has policy to block tinyURL style links that attempt to redirect to other URLs on click.
 
Re: Electronics ban on flights to US is indefinite, applies to 8 Muslim-majority nati

Cardinal said:
Nobody seems to understand the motive for this ban. It almost seems to have been made arbitrarily.
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The best i've seen is a disguised attempt to attack protectionist airlines in the middle east. Wealthy business travelers are the most profitable passengers. The airports the US banned laptops from affected foreign airlines that all are heavily subsidized by their governments. US carriers fly out of different airports in the same countries. These aren't affected. Ergo, buisness travelers will all have to use US flights when flying to the US instead of the local subsidized ones.

If anyone else wants to try to make a better case of why it's safe to have a laptop in the cabin flying from King Hussein International in Aqaba Jordan but it's not safe when flying out of Queen Alia International in Amman Jordan be my guest. Also.. I really don't want to fly on any flight with piles of laptops in the cargo hold.
 
Re: Electronics ban on flights to US is indefinite, applies to 8 Muslim-majority nati

Cardinal said:
Nobody seems to understand the motive for this ban. It almost seems to have been made arbitrarily.
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They picked up some intel. That's the reason for the ban.
 
Re: Electronics ban on flights to US is indefinite, applies to 8 Muslim-majority nati

jmotivator said:
LOL. A CS expert who works as a CS expert in a highly secured building that has policy to block tinyURL style links that attempt to redirect to other URLs on click.
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So it wasn't a matter of the "link doesn't werk", it was a matter of your network blocking it.

Do you ever not shot yerself in the foot?
 
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