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US says 'strategic patience' on NK is over

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nota bene

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Secretary Tillerson has now said that because of its nuclear intents, a military response to North Korea is an option. T'is a troubling St. Patrick's Day.

From the Korea Herald:

With Washington taking a North Korea policy overhaul, US Secretary of State Rex Tillerson on Friday declared that the existing “strategic patience” approach is over, saying all options including military action are on the table.

At a joint news conference with Seoul’s Foreign Minister Yun Byung-se, Tillerson also urged China to cease its economic retaliation against South Korea over its plan to host a US missile shield here, calling it “unnecessary, inappropriate and troubling.”

...Stressing the Terminal High Altitude Area Defense system’s raison d’etre, he called for China to refrain from taking retaliation against Seoul and join in addressing the threat that “makes THAAD necessary.”

“We also believe it is not the way for a regional power to help resolve what is a serious threat for everyone. So we hope China will alter its position on punishing South Korea,” Tillerson said. US says 'strategic patience' on NK is over
 
It may finally come down to a Military confrontation, despite many analysts out there, the North Korean regime has managed to sustain itself through thick and thin, and so any hope for its collapse is a pipe dream.

A military confrontation would be extremely costly though, to all sides involved but particiaruly to civilians in the North and the South.

The only issue with what Tillerson is saying (which I don't necessarily disagree with) is that the entire Nlrth Korean regimes propaganda depends upon convincing the North Korean people that an American and South Korean invasion is imminent, but they'd do that with or without it so I suppose it's futile to say it'll ramp up tensions, sneezing does that.
 
nota bene said:
Secretary Tillerson has now said that because of its nuclear intents, a military response to North Korea is an option. T'is a troubling St. Patrick's Day.

From the Korea Herald:

With Washington taking a North Korea policy overhaul, US Secretary of State Rex Tillerson on Friday declared that the existing “strategic patience” approach is over, saying all options including military action are on the table.

At a joint news conference with Seoul’s Foreign Minister Yun Byung-se, Tillerson also urged China to cease its economic retaliation against South Korea over its plan to host a US missile shield here, calling it “unnecessary, inappropriate and troubling.”

...Stressing the Terminal High Altitude Area Defense system’s raison d’etre, he called for China to refrain from taking retaliation against Seoul and join in addressing the threat that “makes THAAD necessary.”

“We also believe it is not the way for a regional power to help resolve what is a serious threat for everyone. So we hope China will alter its position on punishing South Korea,” Tillerson said. US says 'strategic patience' on NK is over
Click to expand...

We should have taken that stance decades ago. Before they actually had nukes.

This (deploying THAAD and increasing the overall military posture) concerns me regarding how the Kim regime will react, but I see no viable alternative.
 
Y'know, I was just thinking to myself yesterday that one of the few potentially good things about the current administration is that its emphasis on isolationism suggests we're less likely to get involved in some incredibly destructive and/or embarrassing foreign military conflicts.

So much for that theory.
 
Jetboogieman said:
It may finally come down to a Military confrontation, despite many analysts out there, the North Korean regime has managed to sustain itself through thick and thin, and so any hope for its collapse is a pipe dream.
Click to expand...

Yes, it is. Never mind the suffering of its people, it will.

Jetboogieman said:
A military confrontation would be extremely costly though, to all sides involved but particiaruly to civilians in the North and the South.
Click to expand...

This is my concern, the innocent civilians.

Jetboogieman said:
The only issue with what Tillerson is saying (which I don't necessarily disagree with) is that the entire Nlrth Korean regimes propaganda depends upon convincing the North Korean people that an American and South Korean invasion is imminent, but they'd do that with or without it so I suppose it's futile to say it'll ramp up tensions, sneezing does that.
Click to expand...

I wonder if there will be any six-party talks. This is not going to cool tensions with China.
 
Jetboogieman said:
It may finally come down to a Military confrontation, despite many analysts out there, the North Korean regime has managed to sustain itself through thick and thin, and so any hope for its collapse is a pipe dream.
Click to expand...
The second any military force sets foot on the DMZ or North Korean soil, it opens up a very real chance of North Korea turning Seoul and Tokyo into radioactive wastelands.

Maybe it's a good idea to keep NK on its toes, but actual military intervention seems like a really, really, really bad idea.
 
Tillerson, like most of the Trump Administration, is a sociopathic and delusional warmonger with Pro-Kremlin views and, along with most of the Trump Administration, should be treated as a threat to our military and our national security. North Korea, on the other hand, while repugnant and despicable in its political ideology and tendencies represents about a tenth of the threat posed to the international order than Washington. Considering the fact that NK is already a pretty big threat, this implies that the threat posed by Trump, Bannon, Tillerson and others in the Republican Party is astronomical.
 
nota bene said:
Secretary Tillerson has now said that because of its nuclear intents, a military response to North Korea is an option. T'is a troubling St. Patrick's Day.

From the Korea Herald:

With Washington taking a North Korea policy overhaul, US Secretary of State Rex Tillerson on Friday declared that the existing “strategic patience” approach is over, saying all options including military action are on the table.

At a joint news conference with Seoul’s Foreign Minister Yun Byung-se, Tillerson also urged China to cease its economic retaliation against South Korea over its plan to host a US missile shield here, calling it “unnecessary, inappropriate and troubling.”

...Stressing the Terminal High Altitude Area Defense system’s raison d’etre, he called for China to refrain from taking retaliation against Seoul and join in addressing the threat that “makes THAAD necessary.”

“We also believe it is not the way for a regional power to help resolve what is a serious threat for everyone. So we hope China will alter its position on punishing South Korea,” Tillerson said. US says 'strategic patience' on NK is over
Click to expand...

Obama had all the options on the table all the time.
 
Visbek said:
Y'know, I was just thinking to myself yesterday that one of the few potentially good things about the current administration is that its emphasis on isolationism suggests we're less likely to get involved in some incredibly destructive and/or embarrassing foreign military conflicts.

So much for that theory.
Click to expand...

I knew that would be false, since there was saber rattling even during the election.
 
Jetboogieman said:
It may finally come down to a Military confrontation, despite many analysts out there, the North Korean regime has managed to sustain itself through thick and thin, and so any hope for its collapse is a pipe dream.

A military confrontation would be extremely costly though, to all sides involved but particiaruly to civilians in the North and the South.

The only issue with what Tillerson is saying (which I don't necessarily disagree with) is that the entire Nlrth Korean regimes propaganda depends upon convincing the North Korean people that an American and South Korean invasion is imminent, but they'd do that with or without it so I suppose it's futile to say it'll ramp up tensions, sneezing does that.
Click to expand...

What do you say? Would the Chinese come to defend the 38th Parallel again?
 
I think that as erratic as Kim Jung Un is, I think we are keeping the pressure on to force more erratic behavior in the hopes that he kill one general too many, and someone finally kills him.

But if that happens, expect China to invade them "to provide stability" to stop refugees from entering China. A unified Korea could become an economic threat to China, and the though of another democratic nation drives the Chinese communist party crazy because it gives its population "funny ideas".
 
Abbazorkzog said:
Tillerson, like most of the Trump Administration, is a sociopathic and delusional warmonger with Pro-Kremlin views and, along with most of the Trump Administration, should be treated as a threat to our military and our national security. North Korea, on the other hand, while repugnant and despicable in its political ideology and tendencies represents about a tenth of the threat posed to the international order than Washington. Considering the fact that NK is already a pretty big threat, this implies that the threat posed by Trump, Bannon, Tillerson and others in the Republican Party is astronomical.
Click to expand...

I have thought about the Koren conundrum off and on. What do you say, what is the best way to treat it? Should we use it to persuade the global community that it is best to turn over international security matters to a supranational body? Or do you thing Iran would be better?

;)
 
chuckiechan said:
I think that as erratic as Kim Jung Un is, I think we are keeping the pressure on to force more erratic behavior in the hopes that he kill one general too many, and someone finally kills him.

But if that happens, expect China to invade them "to provide stability" to stop refugees from entering China. A unified Korea could become an economic threat to China, and the though of another democratic nation drives the Chinese communist party crazy because it gives its population "funny ideas".
Click to expand...

China would probably do something, if it feared the US would really do something.
 
chuckiechan said:
I think that as erratic as Kim Jung Un is, I think we are keeping the pressure on to force more erratic behavior in the hopes that he kill one general too many, and someone finally kills him.

But if that happens, expect China to invade them "to provide stability" to stop refugees from entering China. A unified Korea could become an economic threat to China, and the though of another democratic nation drives the Chinese communist party crazy because it gives its population "funny ideas".
Click to expand...

China taking over NK would likely be better than the current situation. At least China is a "rational actor".
 
Skeptic Bob said:
China taking over NK would likely be better than the current situation. At least China is a "rational actor".
Click to expand...

Almost anything would be better for NK than the Orwellian dystopia that exists there currently.
But, what is to stop China from taking over the south as well?
 
Dittohead not! said:
Almost anything would be better for NK than the Orwellian dystopia that exists there currently.
But, what is to stop China from taking over the south as well?
Click to expand...

The USA. And the south Koreans. And maybe even the Norks.

For historical reasons, everyone hates China.
 
This is proof that diplomacy has a shelf life. Kim isn't going to take anyone seriously, because to now there have been empty threats and the promise of no military response. It's inevitable that someone is going to come along that he should take seriously, or watch his country get ripped to shreads. That level of reality should have slapped the Kims in the teeth a long time ago.
 
Dittohead not! said:
Almost anything would be better for NK than the Orwellian dystopia that exists there currently.
But, what is to stop China from taking over the south as well?
Click to expand...

Reality.
 
Dittohead not! said:
Almost anything would be better for NK than the Orwellian dystopia that exists there currently.
But, what is to stop China from taking over the south as well?
Click to expand...

Like I said, rational actor. I put the odds of China invading SK on par with the US invading Canada. China seems more focused on building dominance through trade and commerce nowadays.
 
Jetboogieman said:
The only issue with what Tillerson is saying (which I don't necessarily disagree with) is that the entire Nlrth Korean regimes propaganda depends upon convincing the North Korean people that an American and South Korean invasion is imminent, but they'd do that with or without it so I suppose it's futile to say it'll ramp up tensions, sneezing does that.
Click to expand...

Yes, but usually their methods of doing that are quite comical and usually have no official US government personnel that actually are on record as saying that. Trump and company are giving NK a goldmine in propaganda right now.
 
Visbek said:
The second any military force sets foot on the DMZ or North Korean soil, it opens up a very real chance of North Korea turning Seoul and Tokyo into radioactive wastelands.

Maybe it's a good idea to keep NK on its toes, but actual military intervention seems like a really, really, really bad idea.
Click to expand...

Yes, yes, because you know, the US couldn't win a war today if it's proverbial life depended on it...And even if we could, liberal progressive doctrine would ensure that we don't.
 
Visbek said:
The second any military force sets foot on the DMZ or North Korean soil, it opens up a very real chance of North Korea turning Seoul and Tokyo into radioactive wastelands.

Maybe it's a good idea to keep NK on its toes, but actual military intervention seems like a really, really, really bad idea.
Click to expand...

That is certainly a risk, but if there is a real and legitimate opportunity to end the Kim dynasty then I have no doubt we wouldn't have any trouble finding North Koreans who would support a coup inside and outside the military. Kim Jong Un is not a popular man. We should only be directly involved to the extent needed to ensure its success.
 
Abbazorkzog said:
Tillerson, like most of the Trump Administration, is a sociopathic and delusional warmonger with Pro-Kremlin views and, along with most of the Trump Administration, should be treated as a threat to our military and our national security. North Korea, on the other hand, while repugnant and despicable in its political ideology and tendencies represents about a tenth of the threat posed to the international order than Washington. Considering the fact that NK is already a pretty big threat, this implies that the threat posed by Trump, Bannon, Tillerson and others in the Republican Party is astronomical.
Click to expand...

it is a shame many cannot & will never see the truth in that statement
 
j-mac said:
Yes, yes, because you know, the US couldn't win a war today if it's proverbial life depended on it...And even if we could, liberal progressive doctrine would ensure that we don't.
Click to expand...

Sure it could, but it would have to be one the American people were behind for a real reason. Not the BS that caused Americans to support the invasion of Iraq for a period of time.

Attacking, invading North Korea would not have that support (unless NK attacks the US) The North just having nukes will not get mass support in the US for an attack.

Lets not forget the US still has the worlds largest tank, bomber, fighter, navy forces in the world, of a significantly higher quality than most of its potential competition.
 
Skeptic Bob said:
Like I said, rational actor. I put the odds of China invading SK on par with the US invading Canada. China seems more focused on building dominance through trade and commerce nowadays.
Click to expand...

I don't find China's dynastic claims in the region to be rational. The construction of islands on tidal rocks and reefs for military designs speaks to other objectives besides dominance through trade. NK is simply a Chinese proxy, and any notion that they are anything else is wishful thinking. The question has never been how far NK will go. The question is how far China is willing to let them go in order to distract and manipulate.
 
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