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GOP Bill Would Repeal Obamacare Taxes And Penalties, Keep Some Subsidies

tres borrachos said:
I've heard some people refer to it as Obamacare Lite. I agree with that assessment. I can't see anything thus far in this plan that's going to benefit middle class people any more than Obamacare 1.0 did. I'm disappointed in the Republicans in Congress. After all these years, this is the best they came up with? It isn't much different than what Obama did.
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the problem is obamacare to begin with. I agree however I would have seen them do something different. personally insurance should only be for emergency health issues.
your day to day physical responsibility should be on you.

that is why I proposed something similar to what Singapore has. They have a full cash based system. basically it is a national HSA plan.
and people purchase emergency medical insurance.

the government gives each single person 2500 dollars and each family 5k in healthcare credits to front load it.
you can contribute to this via tax free similar to 401k.

it can only be used for medical expenses that includes over the counter drugs.
then again we have to change our tax code. a person in Singapore making 50k a year only pays about 5% tax.
 
Mr Person said:
Let's see. Eliminate Medicaid expansion, eliminate mandate, give tax credit, allow insurers to enforce and profit from a quasi-mandate, remove requirement that employers provide insurance to full-time employees, but keep ban on pre-X as basis to refuse, ban on lifetime cap, and allow people to stay on parents plans to 26.

If you can cough up several thousand of dollars a year, then you'll do that, take a tax credit, and still end up with a high-deductible catastrophic plan. Of course, the credit for an individual is $2000, wasn't nearly enough for even a single-person plan before Obamacare. What's the point of tax credits when the vast bulk of the people who needed and need insurance couldn't afford premiums in the first place? You need to actually have several grand to drop on a plan to get a tax credit in the first place.

(Oh right. The point is not to help people get insurance, as claimed, but to give an effective tax cut to the upper middle class and rich - groups that can afford premiums anyway).

If employers drop coverage en masse, you won't be able to simply swap to a new job and it's not like you can expect your employer to give you a raise to cover the contribution they're no longer making (and if they did, you'd be paying half that raise to the government in tax anyway). Better pray that employers decided to be nice en mass and keep contributing to your premiums, otherwise you'll be taking an effective pay cut. (But think - the FREEDOMS! Yaaaayyyyyy freedoms!)

Let's see. You get rid of the mandate but you keep the other three things, you drive insurance premiums through the roof. (And as with Obamacare, there is nothing aimed at health care costs in this thing).

Put people in a situation where they can only barely afford a truly bare bones catastrophic plan and they will STILL be going to the ER and being unable to pay the bill, driving up premiums on any better plans anyone might be able to afford - one of the many problems Rs and Ds agreed needed fixing back in 2006-2007. Add to that all the people who cannot afford a plan in the first place but get shoved off Medicaid expansion, the people red states do not use their now-federal-grant funding to cover, the people who were going to the ER and dodging the bill. And, up go all the premiums for the fewer and fewer people that can afford insurance. Down and down go employer contributions, and so forth.




Another "**** everyone but me and my own" piece of legislation dressed up in the typically vapid "yay free markets!" language. For quite a number of reasons that ought to be apparent to anyone who ever sat within ten feet of an economics textbook, health care is one of those areas where a free market does not function properly.

(Nevermind that this isn't aimed at free markets anyway. It's another handout to insurance companies mixed with favorable tax treatment for the better off, and it makes it as hard as possible for the less than well-to-do to get coverage at all.

"Insurance for everyone" indeed. LOL! )
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I have long said that we are going to eventually end up with Single Payer whether we like it or not, and that the insurance companies are going to lead the way. But now I'm thinking the Reps are going to assist them in getting us there.
 
Greenbeard said:
Now that we can finally see the alternative, I think a lot of folks are about to realize how (relatively) good they've got it under the ACA.

Because this alternative is garbage.
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garbage in garbage out. obamacare screwed the system for any real healthcare replacement. not to fix it you have to completely redo it,
however that is next to impossible without breaking something else.

it is the consequence of good intentions and emotional arguments.

Obamacare has done nothing that it promised.
premiums continue to go up.

now in the next year the major insurance companies will have pulled out leaving some people with 0 options at all.
most of the state based exchanges have failed or are failing.

the billions that was given to co-op insurance companies have gone under.
there are still 30m uninsured which is about the same amount that we started with when obamacare was enacted.

you can't modify a pile of crap without ending up with just crap in a different form.

it was stupid of them to even try and modify it to begin with.

the whole point of obamacare wasn't coverage. it was to screw the system up so bad that single payer would be the only alternative.
which is even more of a disaster than obamacare.
 
Cardinal said:
Details are fuzzy, but there is a penalty equal to 30% of the monthly premium rate.

View attachment 67214873
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If I'm not mistaken, what this part is dealing with is how much extra insurance companies are allowed to charge someone for not having insurance AND a preexisting condition.

If you keep insurance without a lapse over 60 days, no penalty and you can't be dropped. If you go over 60 days, you can get inurance but can be charged up to 30% more than someone without the pre-existing condition.
 
ludin said:
the problem is obamacare to begin with. I agree however I would have seen them do something different. personally insurance should only be for emergency health issues.
your day to day physical responsibility should be on you.

that is why I proposed something similar to what Singapore has. They have a full cash based system. basically it is a national HSA plan.
and people purchase emergency medical insurance.

the government gives each single person 2500 dollars and each family 5k in healthcare credits to front load it.
you can contribute to this via tax free similar to 401k.

it can only be used for medical expenses that includes over the counter drugs.
then again we have to change our tax code. a person in Singapore making 50k a year only pays about 5% tax.
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In theory I'm good with the Singapore plan, but they also don't have aspects that we do.

I doubt their doctors send people for all kinds of questionable tests just to cover their butts so they won't get sued. We would need tort reform for their system to work here.

Then there's the cost of medicines, which our system has evolved to a protectionist system. We would need to get rid of that, also.

Free market can be good, but only if it's a truly free market, not an artificially protected market.
 
radcen said:
In theory I'm good with the Singapore plan, but they also don't have aspects that we do.

I doubt their doctors send people for all kinds of questionable tests just to cover their butts so they won't get sued. We would need tort reform for their system to work here.

Then there's the cost of medicines, which our system has evolved to a protectionist system. We would need to get rid of that, also.

Free market can be good, but only if it's a truly free market, not an artificially protected market.
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I 100% agree. I see no reason that we can't import drugs from Canada they are just as good as ours and they have similar quality controls.
 
ludin said:
garbage in garbage out. obamacare screwed the system for any real healthcare replacement. not to fix it you have to completely redo it,
however that is next to impossible without breaking something else.
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I call shenanigans. Y'all had 7+ years to figure out a different system, not to mention the 8 years of the Bush 43 administration. You produced squat.

If they could come up with a viable alternative, they could phase it in. The problem is that any alternative, other than single payer or socialized, will result in less coverage, worse coverage, more expensive coverage. As we are already seeing.


Obamacare has done nothing that it promised.
premiums continue to go up.
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Actually, it's done quite a bit of what it has promised, despite rampant Republican opposition:

• Established guaranteed issue
• Extended coverage for kids to age 26
• Provide coverage to millions of Americans, driving down rates of the uninsured to levels not seen for years
• Made Medicare more efficient, and yes it's saving money for Medicare
• Expanded Medicaid (despite Republican resistance)
• Set up exchanges, which put health insurers in direct competition with one another, in a format easy for citizens to use
• Allows states to authorize health insurance sales across state lines (yes, really)

The list goes on. It isn't all perfect, but overall it's done fairly well.


now in the next year the major insurance companies will have pulled out leaving some people with 0 options at all.
most of the state based exchanges have failed or are failing.
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sigh

Many of those insurers are pulling out because of the uncertainty of how the law will change. Or, in a few cases, doing so to put pressure on the DoJ to allow massive mergers.

Despite this, most exchanges are doing fairly well.


the billions that was given to co-op insurance companies have gone under.
there are still 30m uninsured which is about the same amount that we started with when obamacare was enacted.
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Try again.

Number of uninsured in 2011 was 48 million. Current estimates are around 29 million. Probably less, after this year's enrollment.

The percentage of uninsured is down 6% since the law kicked in, and is at the lowest level in 8 years.


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the whole point of obamacare wasn't coverage. it was to screw the system up so bad that single payer would be the only alternative.
which is even more of a disaster than obamacare.
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This nonsense again? Egads.
 
The hidden grenade in the Trumpcare room ... there are at least 3 different groups of Congressional Republicans who are unhappy with the proposed GOP healthcare plan because the plan-cuts aren't deep enough for them. Without their support, the current proposal will fail. The chief architect of the GOP healthcare plan is White House Office of Management and Budget Director ‎Mick Mulvaney. Appointed by Trump, Mulvaney is a lawyer and lifetime politician who has absolutely no training or experience in either the medical or healthcare fields.
 
The giant whooshing sound you hear is Republicans vacating their seats midterm...

Suicide in a bill.
 
ludin said:
I 100% agree. I see no reason that we can't import drugs from Canada they are just as good as ours and they have similar quality controls.
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So you're saying Candians get universal single-payers and cheaper drugs that are just as good. Why should we not have Canadian-style care again?
 
tres borrachos said:
I've heard some people refer to it as Obamacare Lite. I agree with that assessment. I can't see anything thus far in this plan that's going to benefit middle class people any more than Obamacare 1.0 did. I'm disappointed in the Republicans in Congress. After all these years, this is the best they came up with? It isn't much different than what Obama did.
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Last night I also called it RyanGate and that's exactly what conservative groups are calling it today that oppose it.

Powerful conservative groups line up against House GOP health plan - POLITICO
 
Top Cat said:
The giant whooshing sound you hear is Republicans vacating their seats midterm... Suicide in a bill.
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Could very well be.

Trump promised Americans a significantly better healthcare plan than Obama's ACA. Better medical coverage for everyone with lower medical/drug costs. Trump also promised not to meddle with Medicare.

Whatever form of Trumpcare the GOP passes will exert profound and perhaps fatal electoral pressures on the GOP in 2018 and 2020. If they don't fulfill promises and expectations, electoral repercussions could be catastrophic.
 
Rogue Valley said:
Could very well be.

Trump promised Americans a significantly better healthcare plan than Obama's ACA. Better medical coverage for everyone with lower medical/drug costs. Trump also promised not to meddle with Medicare.

Whatever form of Trumpcare the GOP passes will exert profound and perhaps fatal electoral pressures on the GOP in 2018 and 2020. If they don't fulfill promises and expectations, electoral repercussions could be catastrophic.
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The problem is, it's a rat's nest no matter what. I don't see how they will pull this off without pissing off a whole lot of voters on both sides of the aisle.

NOW, it's the GOP's problem. Careful what you wish for...
 
azgreg said:
So basically a mandate without having a mandate.
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It walks like a mandate, talks like a mandate, and punishes those who opt out like a mandate. But Repubs wrote it, so it's not a mandate.
 
radcen said:
Just so we're clear: "Financial assistance" = subsidies.

1) How does that entice young healthy people to participate and make the pool larger so prices will come down? If they didn't feel the need to spend the money before, they won't feel the need now.

2) I thought conservatives abhorred subsidies?

3) How are subsidies "free market"?
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we all knew that the GOP's 'fix' would be to put the biggest tube of lipstick on the ACA pig ................ GOP = no ideas, no leadership, just BS, etc. .......................

Every time you go to the DR. or to the emergency room you get a FREE tube of lipstick & a Don Cheeto Doll with ruby red lips, and a sign around it's neck that reads "Don Cheeto Care" - "Making Health Care Great Again" .............
 
ludin said:
that doesn't mean it is dead. it means that the senate will make changes to it.
then it will go back to the house for approval of those changes.
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We'll see how far those Senate changes, to the left, get through the 32 members of the House Freedom Caucus on the far-right already expressing serious reservations over RyanCare.

If you search Freedom Caucus, you won't like what you find, especially about RyanCare and GOP House members attacking from the right and GOP Senators attacking from the left.

What goes around from eight years ago has come back around .
 
tres borrachos said:
And I really like Paul Ryan so this hurts.
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I've taken a lot of hits over the years for saying I TRUST Ryan, even if I don't share the majority of his views.

My GOP congressman Kinzinger is very similar to him. Ryan should have taken Boehner's comments more seriously.

A good search is the 'Freedom Caucus'. I don't think they're buying phases 1, 2, and 3, especially the 'TIMING around the next two elections' .
 
GhostlyJoe said:
So you're saying Candians get universal single-payers and cheaper drugs that are just as good. Why should we not have Canadian-style care again?
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that isn't what I said you should probably read it again.
 
NIMBY said:
I've taken a lot of hits over the years for saying I TRUST Ryan, even if I don't share the majority of his views.

My GOP congressman Kinzinger is very similar to him. Ryan should have taken Boehner's comments more seriously.

A good search is the 'Freedom Caucus'. I don't think they're buying phases 1, 2, and 3, especially the 'TIMING around the next two elections' .
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I've always liked Ryan. I admire him, think he's very smart and shrewd, and think he is one of the more decent people in DC. I fear for his future if this new plan turns out to be what it seems to be now, which isn't much.
 
tres borrachos said:
I've always liked Ryan. I admire him, think he's very smart and shrewd, and think he is one of the more decent people in DC. I fear for his future if this new plan turns out to be what it seems to be now, which isn't much.
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Recall Trumps promise- all would have the same or better coverage and costs would be lowered.
Wait till the millions in Blue State see coverage disappear.
I cannot understand how medical coverage for all has turned into such a boondoggle.
 
JANFU said:
Recall Trumps promise- all would have the same or better coverage and costs would be lowered.
Wait till the millions in Blue State see coverage disappear.
I cannot understand how medical coverage for all has turned into such a boondoggle.
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Wait until the thousands who voted for him in Ohio, West Virginia and other places see their coverage disappear. I've heard as many as 15 million people will be uninsured.
 
tres borrachos said:
I've always liked Ryan. I admire him, think he's very smart and shrewd, and think he is one of the more decent people in DC. I fear for his future if this new plan turns out to be what it seems to be now, which isn't much.
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I didn't like him at first, but I have warmed up to him over the years. I have come to believe that he is more reasonable than he was given credit for early on.
 
radcen said:
I didn't like him at first, but I have warmed up to him over the years. I have come to believe that he is more reasonable than he was given credit for early on.
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Yup, and I think unless this entire Trump thing blows the GOP up, he has a very bright future.
 
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