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FCC Reverses Net Neutrality Laws[W:360]

Re: FCC Reverses Net Neutrality Laws

Fishking said:
OK...so say you build a road to service everyone but there is one company that accounts for 37% of the traffic by itself. You have to maintain these roads for everyone but the wear and tear of all this traffic, to include having to build bigger and more roads, which costs $$. Does it not make sense to charge the company more to help maintain all of that? If not, then the burden will spread out to everyone else who uses the road, even if it's very little comparatively.

Netflix Bandwidth Usage Climbs to Nearly 37% of Internet Traffic at Peak Hours | Variety
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Netflix already paid for their bandwidth, and I already paid for mine.

They weren't trying to put Netflix in a slow lane because there was too much traffic. They wanted to put Netflix in a slow lane so people would drop the subscription and switch to the ISP's own streaming service, or charge you the "Netflix tax" so they get the money either way.

So let's fix your analogy: Business A has already paid that 37% maintenance, but now the highway company wants to tack on a surcharge to convince me to switch to their own trucking service.
 
Re: FCC Reverses Net Neutrality Laws

Spartacus FPV said:
Dammit, and I just upgraded to an Unlimited plan. I should go back to capped, since now companies like T-Mobile can "discriminate" and give me free streaming Youtube/Netflix.
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They've been doing that for years with or without NN. I think T-mobile started offering that in like 2014, but the thing is it's only like 480P no higher quality, which is why they can do that.
 
Re: FCC Reverses Net Neutrality Laws

AlbqOwl said:
Okay that's a compelling argument and I will likely change my argument, at least as far as the big guys opposing net neutrality.

I will still lean toward the idea that the free market best decides how internet providers will work and anything the government meddles in and takes control of will not likely end well.
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Consider this:

Net neutrality furthers a free market of the content of the internet, and only at the expense of a minor change in how the delivery is done. And, quite frankly, free and open competition of the internet's content is far, far more important to our economy.

Am I really supposed to be terrified of a government regulation that furthers free and open competition and communication?
 
Re: FCC Reverses Net Neutrality Laws

Deuce said:
Consider this:

Net neutrality furthers a free market of the content of the internet, and only at the expense of a minor change in how the delivery is done. And, quite frankly, free and open competition of the internet's content is far, far more important to our economy.

Am I really supposed to be terrified of a government regulation that furthers free and open competition and communication?
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Terrified? No. Cautious? Absolutely. Any power given to the government to cause one thing to happen that we like can also be used to restrict things we don't like. And government, being government, generally doesn't like to relinquish any power allocated to it and will almost always be hungry for more.

One of the best pro and con arguments I've seen on this so far is here:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/tonybradley/2014/05/16/is-net-neutrality-a-bad-idea/#76eb55aa6a9c

And a good opposition argument here:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffre...dea-supported-by-poor-analogies/#1e08633dc8f1
 
Re: FCC Reverses Net Neutrality Laws

ModerateGOP said:
They've been doing that for years with or without NN. I think T-mobile started offering that in like 2014, but the thing is it's only like 480P no higher quality, which is why they can do that.
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Not without incident, "A Stanford law professor and net neutrality expert filed a report with the FCC claiming T-Mobile's (NYSE:TMUS) Binge On "harms competition, innovation and free speech" and is likely illegal."

Net neutrality expert to FCC: T-Mobile's Binge On is 'likely illegal' | FierceWireless

Binge On violated the zero-rated data rule and T-Mobile had to meet with Tom Wheeler (FCC) chair, after which the FCC deemed such services as a grey area which "didn't violate" NN despite in effect doing so. An obvious decision when something violates the letter of a law but not the spirit of said law.
 
Re: FCC Reverses Net Neutrality Laws

poweRob said:
I'm not trying to flatter your nor insult you. I simply believe you don't understand the issue at all and are mistaken as you will find out when your internet bill starts getting tiers and packages and domains are blocked from you.
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Because today's Left believes stupidity and ignorance is the only way anyone could hold an opinion different from theirs, Trump.
 
Re: FCC Reverses Net Neutrality Laws

AlbqOwl said:
Terrified? No. Cautious? Absolutely. Any power given to the government to cause one thing to happen that we like can also be used to restrict things we don't like. And government, being government, generally doesn't like to relinquish any power allocated to it and will almost always be hungry for more.

One of the best pro and con arguments I've seen on this so far is here:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/tonybradley/2014/05/16/is-net-neutrality-a-bad-idea/#76eb55aa6a9c

And a good opposition argument here:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffre...dea-supported-by-poor-analogies/#1e08633dc8f1
Click to expand...

Sadly, Forbes refuses to allow adblockers and therefore can go **** themselves. Advertisers got progressively more and more obnoxious and this is the consequence they will suffer.
 
Re: FCC Reverses Net Neutrality Laws

Spartacus FPV said:
Not without incident, "A Stanford law professor and net neutrality expert filed a report with the FCC claiming T-Mobile's (NYSE:TMUS) Binge On "harms competition, innovation and free speech" and is likely illegal."

Net neutrality expert to FCC: T-Mobile's Binge On is 'likely illegal' | FierceWireless

Binge On violated the zero-rated data rule and T-Mobile had to meet with Tom Wheeler (FCC) chair, after which the FCC deemed such services as a grey area which "didn't violate" NN despite in effect doing so. An obvious decision when something violates the letter of a law but not the spirit of said law.
Click to expand...

So in other words, NN didn't even prevent Binge-on from happening, even when it was thrown directly at Tom Wheeler's face. T-Mobile laughed all the way to the bank.
 
Re: FCC Reverses Net Neutrality Laws

Deuce said:
Sadly, Forbes refuses to allow adblockers and therefore can go **** themselves. Advertisers got progressively more and more obnoxious and this is the consequence they will suffer.
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Forbes is getting worse an worse with that crap, I used to not mind, but now they added ads on top of the ads that they had last year. Even Deadline started to get into that game just recently too, and it's annoying. This is the type of stuff we should be debating as well as junkware companies use in installers.
 
Re: FCC Reverses Net Neutrality Laws

natsb said:
Bandwidth does not come from POPs or servers. POPs and servers are consumers of bandwidth, not providers. Bandwidth comes from the physical layer of the network stack. The physical layer most people are familiar with is wireless or twisted pair, as this is present in most homes.

Comcast has their own network routers and switches to take care of providing bandwidth to their internal network. An internal (privately owned) network is called an Intranet. The Internet is formed when several Intranets talk to each other via core routers.

Comcast owns their own switches and routers because it would be cost prohibitive to run everything from the core.

How would we know? That is easy. Your computer has a command line tool called tracert (short for trace route). Just type in tracert followed by the destination, and you will get a map of the path your computer took to get to that destination. For instance, type in "tracert www.debatepolitics.com", and you will see the path your computer had to take to get to this web site.

When you see the name in the network path change, you will know you left your ISP's network and went on the core. For instance when you see a hop named comcast.net, and the very next hop is named level3.net, that is the point where your packets went to the core and left Comcast's Intranet.
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I'm humbled.

I understand intra vs inter; intrastate vs interstate in transportation. So, bandwidth is the element, like water, electricity or gas... that we or Comcast buy; in it's simplest terms that is...

So the internet is just a pathway that URLs etc travel on... Can we hook into it by ourselves, or is an ISP required?

I did the tracert thing; interesting, then it timed out. Did it take me directly to Debatepolitics.com, or just to where my ISP was hooked in?

So, the upshot is that we can indeed buy more bandwidth, or faster service, but is there a limit? And what was the whole Net Neutrality thing about then?
 
Re: FCC Reverses Net Neutrality Laws

countryboy said:
Lol! With libs it's never actual results that count, but intentions. Nevermind that liberalism always results in the exact opposite of it's stated intent. :lamo
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See, this is the problem with most people who are fine with defanging Net Neutrality laws.

Liberals (who actually understand these regulations) are pro-NN; therefore, despite knowing absolutely nothing about it, they simply MUST be against Net Neutrality. Anything liberals like is bad.

Vapid, intellectually bereft twaddle.
 
Re: FCC Reverses Net Neutrality Laws

Deuce said:
Sadly, Forbes refuses to allow adblockers and therefore can go **** themselves. Advertisers got progressively more and more obnoxious and this is the consequence they will suffer.
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Yep, when they did this I made sure Google News would never show me another Forbes article again. The WSJ just got the ban hammer as well after trying to unplatform PewDiePie.
 
Re: FCC Reverses Net Neutrality Laws

Deuce said:
Sadly, Forbes refuses to allow adblockers and therefore can go **** themselves. Advertisers got progressively more and more obnoxious and this is the consequence they will suffer.
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That isn't very "free market of content" of you. ;)
 
Re: FCC Reverses Net Neutrality Laws

ModerateGOP said:
Forbes is getting worse an worse with that crap, I used to not mind, but now they added ads on top of the ads that they had last year. Even Deadline started to get into that game just recently too, and it's annoying. This is the type of stuff we should be debating as well as junkware companies use in installers.
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It's a plague on the internet. Every website now wants desperately for me to know what 80s TV stars look like today and what miracle food kills belly fat.
 
Re: FCC Reverses Net Neutrality Laws

jmotivator said:
It's a plague on the internet. Every website now wants desperately for me to know what 80s TV stars look like today and what miracle food kills belly fat.
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But a (insert your state) mom invented it! Slimfast hates her!

jmotivator said:
That isn't very "free market of content" of you. ;)
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It absolutely is. The free market moved too far when it came to advertisements on the internet, so consumers responded.

The reason I take a different stance on the ISP is that they're an inherently uncompetitive service. Like water or electrical infrastructure, internet infrastructure has some inherent barriers to entry and competition. (and they've also taken billions of dollars from the taxpayers for upgrading that infrastructure)
 
Re: FCC Reverses Net Neutrality Laws

Renae said:
Can you even begin to understand we who support this, believe it will help consumers? And we do so after weighing all the evidence and facts?
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How does it help consumers and by what evidence is it you weigh?
 
Re: FCC Reverses Net Neutrality Laws

Spartacus FPV said:
Dammit, and I just upgraded to an Unlimited plan. I should go back to capped, since now companies like T-Mobile can "discriminate" and give me free streaming Youtube/Netflix.
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I am not sure you know what you are talking about,.
 
Re: FCC Reverses Net Neutrality Laws

Carjosse said:
I was not talking about that event, I was giving an example, without the FCC rules that is what they could do.
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But you were. you don't understand the technology. Even after I explained it to everyone.
 
Re: FCC Reverses Net Neutrality Laws

ReverendHellh0und said:
You can connect your own router to the comcast box. turn off thier wifi.
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Need the wifi. Xbox is useless when not connected to the web due to the microsoft paywall.
 
Re: FCC Reverses Net Neutrality Laws

Deuce said:
Netflix already paid for their bandwidth, and I already paid for mine.

They weren't trying to put Netflix in a slow lane because there was too much traffic. They wanted to put Netflix in a slow lane so people would drop the subscription and switch to the ISP's own streaming service, or charge you the "Netflix tax" so they get the money either way.

So let's fix your analogy: Business A has already paid that 37% maintenance, but now the highway company wants to tack on a surcharge to convince me to switch to their own trucking service.
Click to expand...



Nonsense. you too have no understanding of the technology.



You should review my posts
 
Re: FCC Reverses Net Neutrality Laws

ReverendHellh0und said:
I am not sure you know what you are talking about,.
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Oh I am, its a program they offer called Binge On, but if you think I've stated anything in error feel free to correct me.

Otherwise, you're just telling someone they're wrong but offering no explanation, a.k.a "Not an argument."
 
Re: FCC Reverses Net Neutrality Laws

backpacker said:
Need the wifi. Xbox is useless when not connected to the web due to the microsoft paywall.
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no get an asus wifi router, whatever the latest is.

set up 5ghz network.


turn off wifi in comcast router.
 
Re: FCC Reverses Net Neutrality Laws

Spartacus FPV said:
Oh I am, its a program they offer called Binge On, but if you think I've stated anything in error feel free to correct me.

Otherwise, you're just telling someone they're wrong but offering no explanation, a.k.a "Not an argument."
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Unlimited plans are really 20gb or so plans that if you go over your overage you get throttled.
 
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