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Justice Department Reverses Obama Private Prison Order

Kobie

Kobie

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https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...prison-order-reversed-by-trump-administration

Attorney General Jeff Sessions rescinded an Obama administration order directing the Federal Bureau of Prisons to phase out its use of private prisons, justifying investor bets on the impact of President Donald Trump’s plans on crime, immigration and deportation.

In a memo signed Feb. 21 but published Thursday, Sessions breathed new life into a decade-long experiment in hiring private companies to help manage the U.S. population of federal prisoners. Two key private prison operators, CoreCivic Inc. and Geo Group Inc., rose in after-hours trading.

The Obama administration’s September 2016 decision “changed long-standing policy and practice, and impaired the Bureau’s ability to meet the future needs of the federal correctional system," Sessions wrote in his memo. "I direct the Bureau to return to its previous approach."
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For-profit incarceration is a stain on our allegedly "free" country, and shame on President Trump for allowing AG Sessions to pull this maneuver.

That said, I can't say this move is surprising. Trump is the "business-friendly" president, after all. Even at the cost of human decency.
 
Kobie said:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...prison-order-reversed-by-trump-administration



For-profit incarceration is a stain on our allegedly "free" country, and shame on President Trump for allowing AG Sessions to pull this maneuver.

That said, I can't say this move is surprising. Trump is the "business-friendly" president, after all. Even at the cost of human decency.
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I thought that Obama's argument that it was a choice for human decency to run prisons within government disingenuous. It is so blatantly false, that it is pathetic. The truth is that you get, what you pay for, if you make sure you do. And that there is more reason to be against public bureaucracies handling prisoners than private companies being closely monitored.
 
Kobie said:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...prison-order-reversed-by-trump-administration



For-profit incarceration is a stain on our allegedly "free" country, and shame on President Trump for allowing AG Sessions to pull this maneuver.

That said, I can't say this move is surprising. Trump is the "business-friendly" president, after all. Even at the cost of human decency.
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Since business is the source of wealth in this nation being business friendly is very positive indeed. I don't see what this action has to do with human decency.
 
fmw said:
Since business is the source of wealth in this nation being business friendly is very positive indeed. I don't see what this action has to do with human decency.
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Private prison companies lobby for harsher sentences and financially support the campaigns of judges who hand out harsher sentences, all for personal enrichment. It has everything to do with human decency.
 
joG said:
I thought that Obama's argument that it was a choice for human decency to run prisons within government disingenuous. It is so blatantly false, that it is pathetic. The truth is that you get, what you pay for, if you make sure you do. And that there is more reason to be against public bureaucracies handling prisoners than private companies being closely monitored.
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Sheer nonsense.
 
Kobie said:
Private prison companies lobby for harsher sentences and financially support the campaigns of judges who hand out harsher sentences, all for personal enrichment. It has everything to do with human decency.
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So you suggest that corrupt judges are the problem. Businesses are motivated by profit. They do what they need to do to earn it. It is natural. Judges are not supposed to be above the law. That is unnatural.
 
:coffeepap

Executive Order 12803—Infrastructure Privatization
April 30, 1992

By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, and in order to ensure that the United States achieves the most beneficial economic use of its resources, it is hereby ordered as follows:

Section 1. Definitions. For purposes of this order: (a) "Privatization" means the disposition or transfer of an infrastructure asset, such as by sale or by long-term lease, from a State or local government to a private party.

(b) "Infrastructure asset" means any asset financed in whole or in part by the Federal Government and needed for the functioning of the economy. Examples of such assets include, but are not limited to: roads, tunnels, bridges, electricity supply facilities, mass transit, rail transportation, airports, ports, waterways, water supply facilities, recycling and wastewater treatment facilities, solid waste disposal facilities, housing, schools, prisons, and hospitals.....

George Bush: Executive Order 12803?Infrastructure Privatization
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:elephantf

America for sale.
 
Kobie said:
Private prison companies lobby for harsher sentences and financially support the campaigns of judges who hand out harsher sentences, all for personal enrichment. It has everything to do with human decency.
Click to expand...

You do realize that is dependent on the government being corrupt, right?
 
Just read a article where some states are required to pay for the empty beds if the prisons are under 90% of capacity, so this sounds more like corporate welfare to me. And now, I am now beginning to wonder if some inmates are being kept inside longer by not awarding points for early release for good behavior, and if paroles are intentionally being passed over to keep the facilities at 90% occupied.

I am all for getting bad guys off the streets, but this worries me.


http://sentencingproject.org/wp-con...ood-to-be-True-Private-Prisons-in-America.pdf
 
RetiredUSN said:
Just read a article where some states are required to pay for the empty beds if the prisons are under 90% of capacity, so this sounds more like corporate welfare to me. And now, I am now beginning to wonder if some inmates are being kept inside longer by not awarding points for early release for good behavior, and if paroles are intentionally being passed over to keep the facilities at 90% occupied.

I am all for getting bad guys off the streets, but this worries me.


http://sentencingproject.org/wp-con...ood-to-be-True-Private-Prisons-in-America.pdf
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You've hit the nail on the head .
 
Kobie said:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...prison-order-reversed-by-trump-administration



For-profit incarceration is a stain on our allegedly "free" country, and shame on President Trump for allowing AG Sessions to pull this maneuver.

That said, I can't say this move is surprising. Trump is the "business-friendly" president, after all. Even at the cost of human decency.
Click to expand...

I harbored hope that the era of for profit prisons was left behind as scandal after scandal emerged over the last decade but I guess the words FOR PROFIT are like crack to Republicans and they just cannot resist no matter the down side.
 
RetiredUSN said:
Just read a article where some states are required to pay for the empty beds if the prisons are under 90% of capacity, so this sounds more like corporate welfare to me. And now, I am now beginning to wonder if some inmates are being kept inside longer by not awarding points for early release for good behavior, and if paroles are intentionally being passed over to keep the facilities at 90% occupied.

I am all for getting bad guys off the streets, but this worries me.


http://sentencingproject.org/wp-con...ood-to-be-True-Private-Prisons-in-America.pdf
Click to expand...

Do you assume that government owned and staffed prison facilities lower their cost based on lower inmate volume? If so then the solution is to transfer prisoners to the private facilities to save money on public prisons.
 
Kobie said:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...prison-order-reversed-by-trump-administration



For-profit incarceration is a stain on our allegedly "free" country, and shame on President Trump for allowing AG Sessions to pull this maneuver.

That said, I can't say this move is surprising. Trump is the "business-friendly" president, after all. Even at the cost of human decency.
Click to expand...

Probably the best comparison of private vs public prisons: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2014/02/25/are-private-prisons-better-or-worse-than-public-prisons/?utm_term=.11843673efad

His conclusion, such as it is, is that there is no good research comparing public to private prisons:

The GAO explained recently that “t is not currently feasible to conduct a methodologically sound cost comparison of BOP [Bureau of Prisons] and private low and minimum security facilities because these facilities differ in several characteristics and BOP does not collect comparable data to determine the impact of these differences on cost.” The data problem mostly comes from the private side: information collected by the BOP from private facilities isn’t necessarily reported the same way that public data are reported, and the reliability of the data is uncertain. Moreover, “[w]hile private contractors . . . maintain some data for their records, these officials said that the data are not readily available or in a format that would enable a methodologically sound cost comparison at this time.”

Not only do federal regulations not require that these data be collected, but also, and more troublingly, at the time of the GAO study in 2007, the BOP didn’t believe there was value in developing the data collection methods that would make valid public-private cost comparison methods possible.

Probably more seriously, public and private prisons have accounting procedures that “make the very identification of comparable costs difficult.”
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There is something wrong when you cannot even compare to discover if you are getting a good deal or not.
 
RetiredUSN said:
Just read a article where some states are required to pay for the empty beds if the prisons are under 90% of capacity, so this sounds more like corporate welfare to me. And now, I am now beginning to wonder if some inmates are being kept inside longer by not awarding points for early release for good behavior, and if paroles are intentionally being passed over to keep the facilities at 90% occupied.

I am all for getting bad guys off the streets, but this worries me.


http://sentencingproject.org/wp-con...ood-to-be-True-Private-Prisons-in-America.pdf
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That seems to happen whether or not the prison is public or private.

No One Knows What to Do with All These Empty U.S. Prisons - Curbed

Unused prisons, some completely finished and never opened are not unusual.
 
Justice Department Reverses Obama Private Prison Order
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private prisons should be illegal. too much conflict of interest. some things are necessary enough that a profit motive doesn't need to be a part of it.

also, the fact that this administration has come out in favor of potential pot raids in pot-legal states and a resurgence of for-profit prisons in a 40 hour period is awful.
 
Kobie said:
Sheer nonsense.
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Generally speaking, good debate tactics require more than a two word response that has absolutely no substance.

Care to elaborate?
 
fmw said:
Since business is the source of wealth in this nation being business friendly is very positive indeed. I don't see what this action has to do with human decency.
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I imagine the cost of public-funded vs private....must be key. US prisons aren't referred to as "Club Fed" for nothing.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Do you assume that government owned and staffed prison facilities lower their cost based on lower inmate volume? If so then the solution is to transfer prisoners to the private facilities to save money on public prisons.
Click to expand...

I don't assume anything. I really didn't give the issue much thought until I saw Kobie make this thread. I did a little reading on the issue this morning and have more questions than answers to be honest.
 
Kobie said:
Private prison companies lobby for harsher sentences and financially support the campaigns of judges who hand out harsher sentences, all for personal enrichment. It has everything to do with human decency.
Click to expand...

Victims of criminals are getting the short end of the stick.
People are losing faith in the justice system - that's the indecent part of it!
 
Henrin said:
You do realize that is dependent on the government being corrupt, right?
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Corruption has been deeply entrenched.

I suppose privatization is part of the plan to drain the swamp. It create jobs too.
 
RetiredUSN said:
Just read a article where some states are required to pay for the empty beds if the prisons are under 90% of capacity, so this sounds more like corporate welfare to me. And now, I am now beginning to wonder if some inmates are being kept inside longer by not awarding points for early release for good behavior, and if paroles are intentionally being passed over to keep the facilities at 90% occupied.

I am all for getting bad guys off the streets, but this worries me.


http://sentencingproject.org/wp-con...ood-to-be-True-Private-Prisons-in-America.pdf
Click to expand...

Then this should make your hair stand on end:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kids_for_cash_scandal
 
joG said:
I thought that Obama's argument that it was a choice for human decency to run prisons within government disingenuous. It is so blatantly false, that it is pathetic. The truth is that you get, what you pay for, if you make sure you do. And that there is more reason to be against public bureaucracies handling prisoners than private companies being closely monitored.
Click to expand...

...and those reasons are? Please compare and contrast to develop this argument into something meaningful.
 
Although I think we have to re examine how we approach the entire incarceration paradigm, and I question what the motivation to do things right in a private system....We've all heard of the horror stories, and to be honest, I really don't want Dick Wolf having any more materiel on this particular subject....
 
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