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Justice Department Reverses Obama Private Prison Order

fmw said:
If you think 100% of revenue represents profit, then you don't understand business. Apparently you are criticizing the government for using private prisons to save money when, as you say, it doesn't save money. You have concluded the government is incompetent. I've known that for decades. Glad you finally caught on.
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What I'm saying is whether the government pays CCA $100 million to run prisons, or spends that $100 million to run a public prison doesn't really matter to the economy. The money all gets out there as supplies, building materials, wages, computers, food, etc.

And my complaint with private prisons is having a powerful industry lobbying FOR measures that increase the prison population - War on Drugs, three strikes, etc.
 
fmw said:
I must be writing badly. Basically what I said was that it makes no sense for the government to spend money on things that don't work as expected. Since they do hire private prisons they must gaining some benefit from it. Is that more clear?
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You're not writing badly, you're rationalizing badly.

Is the government really getting benefit... or are the legislators getting benefit?
 
radcen said:
You're not writing badly, you're rationalizing badly.

Is the government really getting benefit... or are the legislators getting benefit?
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I don't know. Neither do you.
 
JasperL said:
What I'm saying is whether the government pays CCA $100 million to run prisons, or spends that $100 million to run a public prison doesn't really matter to the economy. The money all gets out there as supplies, building materials, wages, computers, food, etc.
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No, only some of it does. Government has overhead as well.

And my complaint with private prisons is having a powerful industry lobbying FOR measures that increase the prison population - War on Drugs, three strikes, etc.
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I've answered that three times. I suggest you go back and read the rebuttal.
 
radcen said:
If you understand human nature, and history, you can a make pretty damn good guess... and I bet you know that.
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Of course and my guess is that you are completely wrong.
 
fmw said:
No, only some of it does. Government has overhead as well.
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It does, but it still gets out in the economy as salaries, electricity, water, maintenance, etc.

I've answered that three times. I suggest you go back and read the rebuttal.
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Right, but in your previous post you misstated my major issue. "Apparently you are criticizing the government for using private prisons to save money when, as you say, it doesn't save money. You have concluded the government is incompetent" (that's not my criticism), so I was correcting it.

Bottom line is we don't agree, which is fine.
 
JasperL said:
It does, but it still gets out in the economy as salaries, electricity, water, maintenance, etc.
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And debt service and a host of other things that cause government to be a net spender (even waster) of wealth?

No I didn't say the government is using private prisons to save money. I suggested that the government's behavior would lead one to the think they are saving money. I don't know whether they save money or not. My ONLY point was that, if the private prison had an incentive to fill the prison, then the government provided the wrong incentive. They could have engineered the opposite behavior with a different incentive if they wanted to. I keep saying X and you keep criticizing me for saying Y. It just doesn't work.
 
fmw said:
Of course and my guess is that you are completely wrong.
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So, let me see if I understand this... You acknowledge that human nature is greedy, and that human history backs this up, yet you still cling to the notion that someway, somehow, THIS example of government operation is the rare shining example of purity in an otherwise dishonest world.
 
radcen said:
So, let me see if I understand this... You acknowledge that human nature is greedy, and that human history backs this up, yet you still cling to the notion that someway, somehow, THIS example of government operation is the rare shining example of purity in an otherwise dishonest world.
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No, for the last time I suggested that the government provided the wrong incentive. You aren't listening at all. Let's knock it off.
 
fmw said:
And debt service and a host of other things that cause government to be a net spender (even waster) of wealth?

No I didn't say the government is using private prisons to save money. I suggested that the government's behavior would lead one to the think they are saving money. I don't know whether they save money or not. My ONLY point was that, if the private prison had an incentive to fill the prison, then the government provided the wrong incentive. They could have engineered the opposite behavior with a different incentive if they wanted to. I keep saying X and you keep criticizing me for saying Y. It just doesn't work.
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In a way I agree that it's the wrong incentive, but that is really my point - prison lobbyists spend $millions lobbying government for what I believe are potentially perverse incentives to lock as many people up as possible for the longest sentences possible. IMO, the incentives for prison companies do not line up with those of taxpayers and citizens, and giving them a powerful financial incentive to lobby government for more prisoners is a mistake.
 
JasperL said:
In a way I agree that it's the wrong incentive, but that is really my point - prison lobbyists spend $millions lobbying government for what I believe are potentially perverse incentives to lock as many people up as possible for the longest sentences possible. IMO, the incentives for prison companies do not line up with those of taxpayers and citizens, and giving them a powerful financial incentive to lobby government for more prisoners is a mistake.
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Sorry, I'm done with this.
 
JasperL said:
In a way I agree that it's the wrong incentive, but that is really my point - prison lobbyists spend $millions lobbying government for what I believe are potentially perverse incentives to lock as many people up as possible for the longest sentences possible. IMO, the incentives for prison companies do not line up with those of taxpayers and citizens, and giving them a powerful financial incentive to lobby government for more prisoners is a mistake.
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"I believe"

"potentially"

"incentives"

"IMO"

That's a lot of if's, ands, buts, and maybes
 
Moderate Right said:
"I believe"

"potentially"

"incentives"

"IMO"

That's a lot of if's, ands, buts, and maybes
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First off, we are giving our opinions here. I'm arguing mine, and you can argue yours if you want. If not, why jump into this discussion?

And we know they spend 10s of $millions lobbying legislatures. If you want to believe it's for no effect or that prison companies are indifferent to laws that might decrease the prison population, that's your prerogative, obviously, but I do not believe it. Have it your way.
 
JasperL said:
First off, we are giving our opinions here. I'm arguing mine, and you can argue yours if you want. If not, why jump into this discussion?

And we know they spend 10s of $millions lobbying legislatures. If you want to believe it's for no effect or that prison companies are indifferent to laws that might decrease the prison population, that's your prerogative, obviously, but I do not believe it. Have it your way.
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For anyone... especially non-trusting government detractors... to suggest that that's even possible is head-burying denial to an absurd degree.
 
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