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Trump tries to explain remark about Sweden amid confusion [W:17]

Rogue Valley said:
Don't include me in your mistake. Trump was never my candidate.
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He wasn't mine either. But 75 percent of us voted for him or didn't care enough to vote and now he is President and the hateful false allegations against the man wiil not help, but it will and already is doing the country damage.
 
So.. let me get this straight.

Donald Trump saw a Fox News segment, where Fox misrepresented crime statistics in Sweden, to convince people that immigrants are dangerous people. Fox used anecdotal evidence of interviews with Swedish cops and Trump without doing any reflection or fact checking himself, he inserted a blurb about Sweden in a campaign rally, sandwiched in between actual terror attacks. Kudos to Trump for showing America he does know about some terror attacks that actually happened in real life.

Now, we have to have a national conversation about crime rates in Sweden in proportion to immigrant levels, because of a fake news story that Fox ran? Do we as a country have to debate the Fox News room every time they put out some garbage story because our president is a fan? Unbelievable. If our president wasn't such an intellectual dimwit maybe he could sense propaganda before he airs it out on the campaign 2020 trail.

Why is Trump campaigning for 2020 anyway? Maybe Trump needs to get put in timeout. Get his TV time taken away from him. So, he can sit and think about ways to grow the middle class.
 
tres borrachos said:
Best description I've read of Miller yet and exactly right. He is a little creep, and a pathological liar. Probably the absoolute worst person advising Trump right now, and given that Steve Bannon is in there too, that's saying a lot.

Miller and Conway have zero credibility. They speak for the President, and they lie for the President.

Pence and Mattis and now McMaster have their heads screwed on right. We all know that Trump knows more about ISIS than the generals do. He said that, after all, so it must be true.;) But let's hope these 3 men have the ear of the POTUS to a far greater degree than Conway, Miller and Bannon do. The three of them collectively have got 1/1000000000000 of the knowledge that Pence or Mattis or McMaster have - and an off the charts deficiency of character than they have.
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Do you remember when Trump said he knew more about ISIS than the Generals? One might ask if that's true, why does he keep hiring them for key positions and why has he now charged the Generals with coming up with a plan within 30 days to defeat them? If he's smarter than they are, why does he need their help?

Trump: U.S. generals "don't know much" about ISIS - Videos - CBS News

Trump gives Pentagon 30 days to develop strategy to defeat ISIS in Iraq & Syria » Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind!
 
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Winston said:
So.. let me get this straight.

Donald Trump saw a Fox News segment, where Fox misrepresented crime statistics in Sweden, to convince people that immigrants are dangerous people. Fox used anecdotal evidence of interviews with Swedish cops and Trump without doing any reflection or fact checking himself, he inserted a blurb about Sweden in a campaign rally, sandwiched in between actual terror attacks. Kudos to Trump for showing America he does know about some terror attacks that actually happened in real life.

Now, we have to have a national conversation about crime rates in Sweden in proportion to immigrant levels, because of a fake news story that Fox ran? Do we as a country have to debate the Fox News room every time they put out some garbage story because our president is a fan? Unbelievable. If our president wasn't such an intellectual dimwit maybe he could sense propaganda before he airs it out on the campaign 2020 trail.

Why is Trump campaigning for 2020 anyway? Maybe Trump needs to get put in timeout. Get his TV time taken away from him. So, he can sit and think about ways to grow the middle class.
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Trump is relying on Fox News rather than the Intelligence agencies for his knowledge about the world. Be Afraid, Be Very Afraid.
 
Wiggen said:
Trump is relying on Fox News rather than the Intelligence agencies for his knowledge about the world. Be Afraid, Be Very Afraid.
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I'm sure the Fox news crew knows they can basically dictate policy from the studio too.
 
Wiggen said:
Do you remember when Trump said he knew more about ISIS than the Generals? One might ask if that's true, why does he keep hiring them for key positions and why has he now charged the Generals with coming up with a plan within 30 days to defeat them? If he's smarter than they are, why does he need their help?

Trump gives Pentagon 30 days to develop strategy to defeat ISIS in Iraq & Syria » Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind!
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I do remember that. In fact, I made a snarky comment about it to someone else on here earlier (Disney Dude I think). I almost choked on my water when I heard Trump say that. But what was scarier was the number of his supporters who broke out in cheers and weeped with joy, looking at this demi-God who was even smarter than those generals.

And yes, the irony of him going over and over and over again to those very same generals he denigrated it amazing, isn't it?
 
joG said:
He wasn't mine either. But 75 percent of us voted for him or didn't care enough to vote and now he is President and the hateful false allegations against the man wiil not help, but it will and already is doing the country damage.
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Pointing out Trumps mistakes isn't hateful. He is the US president ... the buck stops at his desk.

When he took the oath of office, Trump accepted all responsibility for his words and his deeds.
 
Rogue Valley said:
Pointing out Trumps mistakes isn't hateful. He is the US president ... the buck stops at his desk.

When he took the oath of office, Trump accepted all responsibility for his words and his deeds.
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It is hateful and you know it. And though I also prefer more well thought through and deliberate communications, it seems presumptuous to fault people for being more direct and less guarded.
The hysterical complaining also damages the country. But you know that too, I suspect.
 
mbig said:
Sweden IS a Muslim Immigrant Crime/Rape DISASTER.
(as is neighbor Oslo, Norway where one can get some Overwhelming stats to that effect)
Leftists hide behind the fact Sweden doesn't allow stats by Race/religion
Even criticizing Govt immigration policy can be considered Hate Speech.

Though in his usual Hyperbolic/BS manner, Trump Lied/wildly enhanced with "Last Night."
Sweden is so socially Leftist it is self Destructing.
I have been posting on this for 7 years just on this mb.
https://www.google.com/webhp?source...-8#q=Mbig"+sweden+site:www.debatepolitics.com

I give you: (Warning contains a some Foul language, but posted 3 or 4 times in Europe section previous)

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At first I thought the video was a joke because he kinda looked like a fake muslim with that beard. I don't have time to fact everything he said but he was very compelling. If true, it's ridiculous they're still letting refugees in without any housing for them. Unbelievable.
 
joG said:
The hysterical complaining also damages the country.
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Trump damages the country. VP Pence (Europe) and SecDef Mattis (Iraq) had to travel overseas and clean up behind Trumps asinine tweets and comments.
 
Rogue Valley said:
Trump damages the country. VP Pence (Europe) and SecDef Mattis (Iraq) had to travel overseas and clean up behind Trumps asinine tweets and comments.
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I'm the first to point out how risky his method of negotiation is. But the European trip showed that he has made more headway than any of the past Presidents of recent history in many ways. He will have to keep up the pressure and possibly carry out some harsh moves, but he has actually gotten the governments of a number of our allies and most notably Germany to openly admit it has been free riding albeit using other words.
 
apdst said:
Thank you for proving my point.

Why do you hate the free press?
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Funny. I was getting ready to ask you and Trump the same thing. :2razz:
 
 
Bob N said:
Funny. I was getting ready to ask you and Trump the same thing. :2razz:
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You're the one that said FNC isn't a part of the media and thereby suggesting they don't rate constitutional protection. Are you applying a constitional double standard?
 
joG said:
It is hateful and you know it. And though I also prefer more well thought through and deliberate communications, it seems presumptuous to fault people for being more direct and less guarded.
The hysterical complaining also damages the country. But you know that too, I suspect.
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So Trump's mistakes and incredible boorish behavior don't damage the country, but pointing them out does? The logic of a true Trumpkin.
 
Wiggen said:
So Trump's mistakes and incredible boorish behavior don't damage the country, but pointing them out does? The logic of a true Trumpkin.
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Oh, that is not at all, what I said. Trump's behavior has certainly damaged the country. But it has also had positive effects. I am skeptical, but the method he is using can be very successful. Maligning the President and misrepresenting the policies to correspond with the propaganda of his and our country's opponents certainly does not help and can do great damage.
 
joG said:
Maligning the President and misrepresenting the policies to correspond with the propaganda of his and our country's opponents certainly does not help and can do great damage.
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Maligning? You seem too be perfectly fine with Trump publicly maligning the thousands of agents/analysts of the US intelligence community.
 
Rogue Valley said:
Maligning? You seem too be perfectly fine with Trump publicly maligning the thousands of agents/analysts of the US intelligence community.
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Not at all. But we know his downsides. That doesn't make spreading lies about him at all better.
 
mbig said:
Wrong and not analogous.

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STATISTA-SEX-ASSAULT-CHART.jpg
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Regarding the rape rate, I mistook another category as rape. Quite a brain burp. I also agree that violent crime is a statistic of greater concern than total crime. Thanks for putting out the more relevant stats. But more to the statistics themselves is what makes them up.

As for rape,

In Sweden:

“…once an act has been registered as rape, it retains this classification in the published crime statistics, even if later investigations indicate that no crime can be proven or if the offence must be given an alternative judicial classification.”

Therefore, 100% or reported rapes are statistically counted as a rape.

Swedish police record each instance of sexual violence in every case separately, leading to an inflated number of cases compared to other countries. So, for instance, when a woman comes to the police and she says gang raped, each of the rapists are recorded and statistically counted as a rape.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in_Sweden

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in_the_United_States

In the US:

The FBI estimates 34.8% of rape incidents are reported by the victim and 21.2% of those cases result in conviction. However, according to the FBI, “A 2013 study found that rape is grossly underreported in the United States (Re: 34.8%). Furthermore, a 2014 study determined that police departments eliminate or undercount rapes from official records in part to:

"create the illusion of success in fighting violence police record each instance of sexual violence in every case separately, leading to an inflated number of cases compared to other countries."

So, for instance, when a woman comes to the police and she says gang raped, each of the rapists are recorded and statistically counted as a rape. In the US, 21.8% of rapes are gang rapes and would be statistically recorded as one victim, one rape.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in_the_United_States

https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/html/cjusew96/cpp.cfm

TO CONTINUE...
 
mbig said:
Wrong and not analogous.

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STATISTA-SEX-ASSAULT-CHART.jpg
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CONTINUED FROM PREVIOUS REPLY

As for violent crime,

In Sweden:

“Sweden has a high rate of reported assault crime when compared internationally, but this can be explained by legal, procedural and statistical differences. For example, the Swedish police applies a system of expansive offence counts for violent crimes, meaning the same crime may be recorded several times. The 2005 European Crime and Safety Survey (2005 EU ICS) found that prevalence victimization rates for assaults with force was below average in Sweden.”

Meaning, if violent crimes were counted by victim only, as in the US, the violent crime rate would be lower.

In Sweden, domestic violence cases are often prosecuted. Once an allegation is made, it cannot be dropped and remains on the record for statistical reporting purposes. As with other violent crime, that would be like a 100% conviction rate.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in_Sweden

https://sweden.se/society/gender-equality-in-sweden/

In the US:

Most domestic violence is not included in FBI crime reports (Murder, for instance, is included).

According to the CDC, there were 21,847,000 estimated victims of physical violence by an intimate partner in 2011 and that, in general, 70% of cases go unreported. Prosecutors typically reduce 80% of cases as misdemeanor, non-domestic abuse cases. An FBI investigation reported that about 95% of cases are plea bargained, most often to a misdemeanor.

Applying the remainder of the above percentages to the number of victims would be an insignificant number that would not much affect the relative difference between the US and Sweden as to violent crime. If more cases of domestic violence were reported and prosecuted, as in Sweden, violent crime would go up considerably. Plus, some years ago, the SCOTUS ruled that defendant has a right to face the accuser. That has increase the number of those women who will acquiesce to a plea bargain to avoid a face to face.

Senators Gillibrand and Ernst Urge FBI to Collect Crime Data on Stalking and Domestic Violence - Press Releases - Senator Joni Ernst

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2015/crime-in-the-u.s.-2015/tables/table-1

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/ss6308a1.htm?s_cid=ss6308a1_e

https://leb.fbi.gov/2013/december/i...ence-raising-prosecution-and-conviction-rates

https://andersonservices.com/2006/08/plea-bargains-in-domestic-violence-cases/

https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/ndv0312.pdf

TO BE CONTINUED...
 
mbig said:
Wrong and not analogous.

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CONTINUED FROM PREVIOUS REPLY

Furthermore, there is a difference between our stats. I have figures for 2016 from the Swedish government that indicate a total of 275,000 crimes against an individual (violent crimes), which is a 339.7 rate vs a US 2015 rate of 372.6. That makes the US almost 10% higher, which is not a big deal, but far from what your report shows.
Rape showed little difference, with Sweden at twice the rate of the US. But keep in mind, Sweden, in its statistical reporting, has virtually a 100% conviction rate whereas the US has a 21.2% conviction rate.

http://www.thelocal.se/20170112/swedens-2016-crime-stats-analyzed

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2015/crime-in-the-u.s.-2015/tables/table-1

My contention is that differences would show Sweden with much lower rates than the US if the US and Sweden reporting and prosecution were made the same. Which will not happen and is why it’s so impractical to compare countries stats unless you go so in-depth as all the above.

And last, but not least, is the question of crime, especially rape, caused by immigrants and refugees, popularly slanted against Muslims. There is a correlation between the rise of rape and that of the inflow of immigrants and refugees, which Sweden has curtailed greatly in 2016 due to the load on its social benefits. However, correlation does not support the claim of the relationship being fact. It can be used to support an unrelated fact belief in such a claim, as in a debate, but that’s the most a correlation can do. It cannot prove the claim.


My contention is that differences would show Sweden with much lower rates than the US if the US and Sweden reporting and prosecution were made the same. Which will not happen and is why it’s so impractical to compare countries stats unless you go so in-depth as all the above.
And last, but not least, is the question of crime, especially rape, caused by immigrants and refugees, popularly slanted against Muslims. There is a correlation between the rise of rape and that of the inflow of immigrants and refugees, which Sweden has curtailed greatly in 2016 due to the load on its social benefits. However, correlation does not support the claim of the relationship being fact. It can be used to support an unrelated fact belief in such a claim, as in a debate, but that’s the most a correlation can do.
 
Fearandloathing said:
~ I know Canadian comedians are having a field day...and have a look at Britain, a house of commons debate over a two million signature petition to ban Trump from British soil ~
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If you look at the comments section on any Trump or Brexit news BBC website story, there is a lot of bile from probable Russian posters pretending to be Brits and from hard Brexiteers against anyone wondering what we have done.

I'm afraid the Canadians have a much broader perspective on these events.
 
bluesmoke x 3 said:
CONTINUED FROM PREVIOUS REPLY
....
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Why Guess (goofily and gratuitously Link Dump in some burial attempt) just because Embarrassed Swedish authorities Hide immigrant Crime Stats?
So many Sweden strings, difficult to remember who I Gutted in which.
https://www.debatepolitics.com/brea...remarks-baffles-nation-51.html#post1066910577

mbig said:
I've got a better correlation to clear up doubt about Cause. Unlike the embarrassed Leftists of Sweden, Next-Door Norway DOES release some stats.
In addition to my Graphs of correlation, and correlation of Cities, even Neighborhoods with more immigrants, having more Crime I've posted previously in the Europe section..
We do have Norway/Oslo... next door with a similar mix, if not the higher immigrant density of Sweden...
and we DO have official Stats:

Immigration and Crime - Wiki
Norway
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_crime#Norway

A 2011...report, the data for 2009 shows that first-generation immigrants from Africa were 3x more likely than ethnic Norwegians... to be convicted of a felony while Somali immigrants in particular being 4.4x more likely to be convicted of a felony[/u] than an ethnic Norwegian was. Similarly, Iraqis and Pakistanis were found to have rates of conviction for felonies greater than ethnic Norwegians by a factor of 3 and 2.6 respectively. Another finding.. Second-Generation African and Asian immigrants had a Higher rate of Convictions for felonies than first-generation immigrants... over 60%. For Asian immigrants an Increase from 9.3 per 1,000 to 17.1 per 1,000 was observed...

In 2010, a spokesperson for the Oslo Police Department stated that Every case of assault Rapes in Oslo in the years 2007, 2008 and 2009 was committed by a non-Western immigrant.... A 2011 report by the Oslo Police District shows that of the 131 individuals charged with the 152 rapes in which the perpetrator could be identified, 45.8% were of African, Middle Eastern or Asian origin while 54.2% were of Norwegian, other European or American origin. In the cases of "assault rape", i.e. rape aggravated by physical violence, a category that included 6 of the 152 cases and 5 of the 131 identified individuals, the 5 identified individuals were of African, Middle Eastern or Asian origin..."​

Some breathtaking numbers above, and...
3-4x Higher for First Generation is bad enough. That going up 50%-100% in the Second Generation is epic failure of the policy.
Bye now.
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