18-year-old's fatal shooting by Baltimore police becomes flash point in debate over r

Re: 18-year-old's fatal shooting by Baltimore police becomes flash point in debate ov

Mac77 said:

I dont feel sorry for him because I think he was ready to use that gun on anyone who displeased him

But for those who do feel sorry for his loss blame the idiot judge who released him back on the street

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No kidding. I understand that the judge was trying to help the kid by allowing him to continue going to school, but sometimes you just have to look at a person's history and make a common-sense judgement. Put him behind bars and he's still alive.

Re: 18-year-old's fatal shooting by Baltimore police becomes flash point in debate ov

faithful_servant said:

No, the judge had a RESPONSIBILITY to revoke his bail and keep him in jail.

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Based on what? My reading of Maryland's bail laws are that unless the person represents a flight risk or a threat to the victim the judge pretty much has to let him walk.

Re: 18-year-old's fatal shooting by Baltimore police becomes flash point in debate ov

HonestJoe said:

It was a pre-trial hearing, he hadn’t been convicted yet so the judge’s only options faced with a sane, adult suspect pending trial would be bail or jail. The other question would be what “rehabilitation centre”?

This still doesn’t contradict my point about social intervention much earlier in life being better than judicial intervention later.

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The only other question should have been what jail?

Re: 18-year-old's fatal shooting by Baltimore police becomes flash point in debate ov

Gaius46 said:

He may have had a gun in his possession once. Not three times, not five times. Once. Maybe. The police said they heard him toss the gun in an alley and later recovered so it wasn't in his physical possession at the time the cops grabbed him. On the second occasion he was arrested after running from a location where a gun and drugs were found. In that case the gun was clearly not in possession and he was charged simply because of his proximity to the weapon.

We can argue whether or not he should have been out on bail, whether or not he represented a flight risk - that btw is the reason for bail we do assume people are innocent until proven otherwise. But at least let's have that discussion based on, you know, actual facts.

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Nothing you said makes him any less dangerous to be on the street.

OK he had the gun in his possession once. He threw the gun a second time, which was in his possession before he threw it, so that makes two.

If he was only around guns the third time, how do you know none of them was his?

Technicalities don't matter in this case.

Re: 18-year-old's fatal shooting by Baltimore police becomes flash point in debate ov

jimbo said:

The only other question should have been what jail?

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What do you mean what jail. He was 18 years old. All legal adults go to the adult jail.

Re: 18-year-old's fatal shooting by Baltimore police becomes flash point in debate ov

Mason66 said:

Nothing you said makes him any less dangerous to be on the street.

OK he had the gun in his possession once. He threw the gun a second time, which was in his possession before he threw it, so that makes two.

If he was only around guns the third time, how do you know none of them was his?

Technicalities don't matter in this case.

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There were three arrests.

In the first the cops arrested him after seeing a bulge in his waistband. They did not find a gun on him. Rather they found a gun in an alley and stated that they heard him throw it there.

In the second arrest there was no gun. He was in possession of heroin (or he might have thrown the heroin away and they found it elsewhere I don't remember).

In the third he ran from a house when the cops entered. There were many other people in the house. The cops found a gun in the house and charged him - and probably everyone else - with possession of the gun. Again in this case the gun was not on his person and his only link to it was that he was in the building in which it was found (but so were a bunch of other people).


So in short he was never arrested with a gun in his physical possession. Why does that matter? Because in our system we presume innocence. He didn't have the gun in his possession until he's convicted of it. That's the way it works.

Those aren't technicalities. Those are facts that the judge must weigh when considering bail. And remember that the point of bail is to make sure people show up for court and - in a small number of cases - to protect people who may be at risk. That's the general idea of bail and that's they way it's written in Maryland law.

So if we want to decide whether the judge did something reasonable we have to look at the actual facts and what the laws tells her she must do.

Re: 18-year-old's fatal shooting by Baltimore police becomes flash point in debate ov

Gaius46 said:

There were three arrests.

In the first the cops arrested him after seeing a bulge in his waistband. They did not find a gun on him. Rather they found a gun in an alley and stated that they heard him throw it there.

In the second arrest there was no gun. He was in possession of heroin (or he might have thrown the heroin away and they found it elsewhere I don't remember).

In the third he ran from a house when the cops entered. There were many other people in the house. The cops found a gun in the house and charged him - and probably everyone else - with possession of the gun. Again in this case the gun was not on his person and his only link to it was that he was in the building in which it was found (but so were a bunch of other people).


So in short he was never arrested with a gun in his physical possession. Why does that matter? Because in our system we presume innocence. He didn't have the gun in his possession until he's convicted of it. That's the way it works.

Those aren't technicalities. Those are facts that the judge must weigh when considering bail. And remember that the point of bail is to make sure people show up for court and - in a small number of cases - to protect people who may be at risk. That's the general idea of bail and that's they way it's written in Maryland law.

So if we want to decide whether the judge did something reasonable we have to look at the actual facts and what the laws tells her she must do.

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In the first case he was charged with procession of a firearm so I'm guessing he didnt get a chance to wipe his prints off before throwing the gun away

Re: 18-year-old's fatal shooting by Baltimore police becomes flash point in debate ov

poweRob said:

wtf?

Now you are bitching about how defendents shouldn't have lawyers?

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Strawman comment is strawmany.

Re: 18-year-old's fatal shooting by Baltimore police becomes flash point in debate ov

Mason66 said:

You don't put somebody back on the street that had been arrested with a gun 3 times.

If he doesn't care about the law concerning guns, why would he obey a curfew?

What idiotic thinking.

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She set the curfew at 1pm. That's after most schools let out. What was she expecting him to do? Skip class to obey it? Nevermind that nobody in their right mind would obey a 1pm curfew at age 18 anyway. The judge was a basketcase.

Re: 18-year-old's fatal shooting by Baltimore police becomes flash point in debate ov

reinoe said:

She set the curfew at 1pm. That's after most schools let out. What was she expecting him to do? Skip class to obey it? Nevermind that nobody in their right mind would obey a 1pm curfew at age 18 anyway. The judge was a basketcase.

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Did you mean to say before?

Most schools get out at 3PM or thereabouts.

Re: 18-year-old's fatal shooting by Baltimore police becomes flash point in debate ov

truthatallcost said:

Strawman comment is strawmany.

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You just blamed someone for being a public defender because of who their clients were. As if they had choices in the matter. Pretty ****ty thing to do.

Re: 18-year-old's fatal shooting by Baltimore police becomes flash point in debate ov

poweRob said:

You just blamed someone for being a public defender because of who their clients were. As if they had choices in the matter. Pretty ****ty thing to do.

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She was a public defender who chose to deal mostly with defending drug dealers. I didn't have anything to do with that, I just mentioned it here because it's true.

Re: 18-year-old's fatal shooting by Baltimore police becomes flash point in debate ov

truthatallcost said:

She was a public defender who chose to deal mostly with defending drug dealers. I didn't have anything to do with that, I just mentioned it here because it's true.

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She's a public defender. She's assigned to cases. And you are blaming her for doing her job. That's completely idiotic. Now, here's a guy who had a choice of who to defended those in the Boston Massacre Trial and this is what he had to say about it after it was over...


Providing defense no matter the circumstance in our judicial system is about is American as we get. So the question is... why do you hate America so much?

Re: 18-year-old's fatal shooting by Baltimore police becomes flash point in debate ov

poweRob said:

She's a public defender. She's assigned to cases. And you are blaming her for doing her job. That's completely idiotic. Now, here's a guy who had a choice of who to defended those in the Boston Massacre Trial and this is what he had to say about it after it was over...

“The Part I took in Defence of Cptn. Preston and the Soldiers, procured me Anxiety, and Obloquy enough. It was, however, one of the most gallant, generous, manly and disinterested Actions of my whole Life, and one of the best Pieces of Service I ever rendered my Country." -- John Adams​

Providing defense no matter the circumstance in our judicial system is about is American as we get. So the question is... why do you hate America so much?

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:lamo

I never said that accused parties shouldn't be represented at trial. I only stated what her previous job was.

Why do love cliches so much?

Re: 18-year-old's fatal shooting by Baltimore police becomes flash point in debate ov

truthatallcost said:

:lamo

I never said that accused parties shouldn't be represented at trial. I only stated what her previous job was.

Why do love cliches so much?

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Bull****. You were trying to say she was a bad person for representing drug dealers as a public defender. Your crap spin here won't work.

Re: 18-year-old's fatal shooting by Baltimore police becomes flash point in debate ov

NonoBadDog said:

It's Baltimore. Isn't that the city that the Mayor said the rioters needed space to destroy ****?

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I take offense to this because Baltimore is my city. It was the closest city I grew up near. It is Baltimore and it has it's issues but don't mistake the Mayor's **** up as how people of Baltimore feel. Baltimore is actually a very wonderful city. Baltimore has a wonderful culture and has produced some of America's greatest talents. If you want a list I can give it.

Re: 18-year-old's fatal shooting by Baltimore police becomes flash point in debate ov

poweRob said:

Bull****. You were trying to say she was a bad person for representing drug dealers as a public defender. Your crap spin here won't work.

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Really? You managed to read all that from this:

truthatallcost said:

She's also a former Baltimore public defender who worked to get drug dealers off.

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Re: 18-year-old's fatal shooting by Baltimore police becomes flash point in debate ov

truthatallcost said:

Really? You managed to read all that from this:

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Yes. Yes I did. And so would anyone else who read this conversation and it's context. Let me provide the context you are trying to weasel out of... Your reply was to this:

Mac77 said:

Based on all the available evidence including her actions

Only a bleeding heart liberal would release a man who was a drug dealer and arrested three times with an illegal firearm

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Your comment was a ****ty pile on about how she was a bad "bleeding heart liberal" who worked to "get drug dealers off".

It's bad enough that you said this crap but what makes it much worse is your slimy attempts to weasel out of what you said.

Re: 18-year-old's fatal shooting by Baltimore police becomes flash point in debate ov

poweRob said:

Yes. Yes I did. And so would anyone else who read this conversation and it's context. Let me provide the context you are trying to weasel out of... Your reply was to this:



Your comment was a ****ty pile on about how she was a bad "bleeding heart liberal" who worked to "get drug dealers off".

It's bad enough that you said this crap but what makes it much worse is your slimy attempts to weasel out of what you said.

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Crazy comment is crazy.

Re: 18-year-old's fatal shooting by Baltimore police becomes flash point in debate ov

truthatallcost said:

Crazy comment is crazy.

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Then don't say such stupid ****.

Re: 18-year-old's fatal shooting by Baltimore police becomes flash point in debate ov

poweRob said:

Then don't say such stupid ****.

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The judge who let Curtis Deal walk is a former public defender who specialized in drug cases.

:bomb:

Re: 18-year-old's fatal shooting by Baltimore police becomes flash point in debate ov

austrianecon said:

I take offense to this because Baltimore is my city. It was the closest city I grew up near. It is Baltimore and it has it's issues but don't mistake the Mayor's **** up as how people of Baltimore feel. Baltimore is actually a very wonderful city. Baltimore has a wonderful culture and has produced some of America's greatest talents. If you want a list I can give it.

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If the truth offends you then that's your problem. Who elected that brainless buffoon? It was the people of Baltimore. They voted for her. They voted for that idiot State's Attorney for Baltimore, Mosby. The same one that put all those cops on trial without getting one conviction. Baltimore has a way of electing impotent people. Sorry, but Baltimore bought that crap. Baltimore owns that crap.

Deadliest year in Baltimore history ends with 344 homicides - Baltimore Sun

I hope your new mayor does better but I am not going to hold my breath.

Re: 18-year-old's fatal shooting by Baltimore police becomes flash point in debate ov

NonoBadDog said:

If the truth offends you then that's your problem. Who elected that brainless buffoon? It was the people of Baltimore. They voted for her. They voted for that idiot State's Attorney for Baltimore, Mosby. The same one that put all those cops on trial without getting one conviction. Baltimore has a way of electing impotent people. Sorry, but Baltimore bought that crap. Baltimore owns that crap.

Deadliest year in Baltimore history ends with 344 homicides - Baltimore Sun

I hope your new mayor does better but I am not going to hold my breath.

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Truth doesn't offend me. Rather 50 years of Democratic segregation of Baltimore does. So does Democrats ignoring the issue of infrastructure issues of Baltimore. City votes mean dick. There has been little invest in Baltimore since MLK riots oft 1960s. Maybe Trump will change that.. because no President since the Riot has given a damn about it.


Oh and btw, I am a Right-Libertarian. I am not a Democrat. But I saw for 30 years of my life how DC (less then 40 mins away) ignored Baltimore. I watch 3 decades as Democrats ignored the issues as well. But I also understand how ****ty people of Baltimore have it. Watched as the Federal Government pour money into cities based on number of arrests rather then lower crime rates. So don't take it the wrong way. Lot of people in Baltimore have felony convicts for as little as a joint.

Re: 18-year-old's fatal shooting by Baltimore police becomes flash point in debate ov

austrianecon said:

Truth doesn't offend me. Rather 50 years of Democratic segregation of Baltimore does. So does Democrats ignoring the issue of infrastructure issues of Baltimore. City votes mean dick. There has been little invest in Baltimore since MLK riots oft 1960s. Maybe Trump will change that.. because no President since the Riot has given a damn about it.


Oh and btw, I am a Right-Libertarian. I am not a Democrat. But I saw for 30 years of my life how DC (less then 40 mins away) ignored Baltimore. I watch 3 decades as Democrats ignored the issues as well. But I also understand how ****ty people of Baltimore have it. Watched as the Federal Government pour money into cities based on number of arrests rather then lower crime rates. So don't take it the wrong way. Lot of people in Baltimore have felony convicts for as little as a joint.

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I hope Trump does do something about Baltimore, and Detroit and Chicago. I have a feeling that if he does the Democrats will do everything they can to stop him. They would rather their constituents wallow in the mud than let a "conservative" succeed with a plan that would improve the situation.