• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Trump makes unannounced trip to honor fallen Navy SEAL[W:15]

Re: Trump makes unannounced trip to honor fallen Navy SEAL

Trump haters think you can have war without casualties. It's nice to see the anti-war wing of the DNC take a nap during Obama's inauguration and then wake up during Trump's inauguration. The timing is perfect.

When did Congress declare war? Did you ever stop and think that maybe the reason those people over there hate us so much is because we keep doing things like this? For every person we kill, we radicalize just as many. Every bomb we drop, every drone strike we make...all if it does nothing to stop the ideology from spreading and only inflames it further. IMO - our hawkish approach to the Middle East is going to be our downfall, ultimately. Just like it was for every other Great Civilization that has come before us be it the ancient Greeks, the Romans, the Mongols, the Ottomans, the British, the Soviets, us...it's supremely arrogant of us to think we will succeed where so many other great powers have failed. We should have nothing to do with that part of the world. It's all tribal over there, and we are outsiders. Because we're outsiders, it galvanizes all of them against us to drive us out so they can continue their millennia-long tribalist conflicts.
 
Re: Trump makes unannounced trip to honor fallen Navy SEAL

Saw a gold star wife on the news this morning and she said military families and gold star wives
appreciate President Trump's commitment to them. A trip to Dove Air Force Base truly drives home to
any president the Commander in Chief title. A Solemn Responsibility.
 
Re: Trump makes unannounced trip to honor fallen Navy SEAL

Trump haters think you can have war without casualties. It's nice to see the anti-war wing of the DNC take a nap during Obama's inauguration and then wake up during Trump's inauguration. The timing is perfect.

No, there is no individual who actually thinks that.

Name some names if you think you've got a case.

I'll wait.
 
Re: Trump makes unannounced trip to honor fallen Navy SEAL

apdst said:
What makes you think the mission didn't go that well? Because President Trumpbis a liar, fascist, racist and a homophobe?
Did Operation Desert Storm go well?
Did Operation Overlord go well?
Did the Overland Campaign go well?
Men and material were expended in those operations, too.
mbig said:
None of the above.
I smell smoke. (to help justify a Seal death)
Trump being a pathological liar is besides the point in this particular case: this is just the usual 'success' PR.
If I get more.. and I think we will eventually hear more.. I'll post it here.
No answer on our aircraft failures.
The article I cited suggests there was some pretty stiff resistance. Aside from this SEAL's death, a few U.S. servicemen were injured when their helicopter had to make a hard landing. It may have been hit by fire from the jihadists, or had to maneuver sharply to try to avoid that fire. I'm sure there were good reasons for using a direct raid to kill this jihadist, and I am sure one was that they had tried several years ago to kill him with a drone, but failed. The planners may also have known he was living among at least some innocent people. Otherwise, they could have blown him and everyone else there to bits from 40,000 feet with B-2's, without any significant risk to any of our forces.
What is there to answer. You have your facts all wrong.
FYI, it appears to have been a disaster. The mission was a grab and go to extract intel on AQAP, not to kill people. Why send in boots on the ground when you have drones? Resistance appears to have been much higher than expected, technical problems abounded, and we apparently killed an 8 year old American citizen. Preliminary inquiries are under way to determine if the civilian casualties require a full investigation. This plays very poorly internationally considering Trumps statements that he would kill terrorist's family members.
The mission was drawn up by the pentagon under the Obama admin, but the administration exercised a pocket veto several times as they deemed it not worth the risk. The Trump administration thought otherwise.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...eight-year-old-american-girl-killed-al-awlaki

Trump goes to Delaware to witness return of remains of Navy SEAL killed in Botched Yemen raid - LA Times

"...The operation began as a mission to gather computers and electronic devices believed to contain information about the organization, Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula, and possibly about terrorist plots in the works. But it devolved unexpectedly into a firefight that also killed more than a dozen women and children.".."​
 
Last edited:
Re: Trump makes unannounced trip to honor fallen Navy SEAL

I wasn't commenting on if the raid was a disaster or not so not really sure why you are telling me this. And while I don't doubt the main goal may very well have been to gather intelligence there is no doubt that everyone involved knew killing people was going to take place. No intel worth going after is simply left laying around unguarded.

And no matter how detailed the planning is or how skilled the people conducting the raid are things just don't always go as planned. It's life. Crappy but just the way it is.

You said that we have zero idea of what happened. I figured you might want new info.
 
Re: Trump makes unannounced trip to honor fallen Navy SEAL

Trump may be a dickhead, but he is doing his duty by visiting the family of a fallen soldier, just as other presidents have.

Obama Quietly Visits Wounded War Vets - CBS News

I remember some extreme Republicans criticizing Obama for doing the same. Democrats raised hell. Now some extreme Democrats are doing the same. It's a silly game, and I won't play it. I defended Obama for doing this, and damn right, I am going to defend Trump on this too.

Thank you, Mister President.
 
Re: Trump makes unannounced trip to honor fallen Navy SEAL

Trump goes to Delaware to witness return of remains of Navy SEAL killed in Botched Yemen raid - LA Times

"...The operation began as a mission to gather computers and electronic devices believed to contain information about the organization, Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula, and possibly about terrorist plots in the works. But it devolved unexpectedly into a firefight that also killed more than a dozen women and children.".."​

I still don't see what evidence you have to suggest that the mission wasn't successful.
 
Re: Trump makes unannounced trip to honor fallen Navy SEAL

You said that we have zero idea of what happened. I figured you might want new info.

"No plan survives first contact with the enemy".
 
Re: Trump makes unannounced trip to honor fallen Navy SEAL

When did Congress declare war? Did you ever stop and think that maybe the reason those people over there hate us so much is because we keep doing things like this? For every person we kill, we radicalize just as many. Every bomb we drop, every drone strike we make...all if it does nothing to stop the ideology from spreading and only inflames it further. IMO - our hawkish approach to the Middle East is going to be our downfall, ultimately. Just like it was for every other Great Civilization that has come before us be it the ancient Greeks, the Romans, the Mongols, the Ottomans, the British, the Soviets, us...it's supremely arrogant of us to think we will succeed where so many other great powers have failed. We should have nothing to do with that part of the world. It's all tribal over there, and we are outsiders. Because we're outsiders, it galvanizes all of them against us to drive us out so they can continue their millennia-long tribalist conflicts.

Well don't tell me, tell the anti-war liberals who were asleep at the wheel for the past 8 years.
 
Anyone who sends men into harm's way and loses some of those men is going feel a certain measure of guilt.

Not Obama, who didn't give a damn about the lives of the men and women who serve in our military.
 
Not Obama, who didn't give a damn about the lives of the men and women who serve in our military.

No, that's not fair. Obama didn't respect our servicemen, but I believe he felt guilty when any of them died because of his orders.
 
Re: Trump makes unannounced trip to honor fallen Navy SEAL

When did Congress declare war? Did you ever stop and think that maybe the reason those people over there hate us so much is because we keep doing things like this? For every person we kill, we radicalize just as many. Every bomb we drop, every drone strike we make...all if it does nothing to stop the ideology from spreading and only inflames it further. IMO - our hawkish approach to the Middle East is going to be our downfall, ultimately. Just like it was for every other Great Civilization that has come before us be it the ancient Greeks, the Romans, the Mongols, the Ottomans, the British, the Soviets, us...it's supremely arrogant of us to think we will succeed where so many other great powers have failed. We should have nothing to do with that part of the world. It's all tribal over there, and we are outsiders. Because we're outsiders, it galvanizes all of them against us to drive us out so they can continue their millennia-long tribalist conflicts.

They hate us because of our culture.
 
Re: Trump makes unannounced trip to honor fallen Navy SEAL

They hate us because of our culture.

When Bush went into Iraq it was estimated that there was 20,000 of Al-Qaeda. Now we have a lot more, the war on terror is a disaster and we have created more terrorists than we have killed.
 
Re: Trump makes unannounced trip to honor fallen Navy SEAL

Oh you mean the PUtin bitch made a photo op. We get it the Trump bootlickers are going to rimjob Trump for breathing.

nope

but when the president honors a fallen member of our military it should not be found a disreputable event

there is much to criticize. this is not among those things
 
Re: Trump makes unannounced trip to honor fallen Navy SEAL

Well don't tell me, tell the anti-war liberals who were asleep at the wheel for the past 8 years.

I don't know what that sentence is supposed to mean.
 
Re: Trump makes unannounced trip to honor fallen Navy SEAL

They hate us because of our culture.

No, they don't. They hate us because we impose ourselves on their lands. That was the whole reason bin Laden issued a fatwa against the United States in 1996. It is literally called ""Declaration of War Against the Americans Occupying the Land of the Two Holy Places." No joke. That is the literal title of his fatwa. Remember, bin Laden was on our side during the First Gulf War. He wanted to lead a mujahedeen uprising in Iraq against Saddam. Al Qaeda was at war with Saddam before we invaded in 2003. Ansar Al-Islam is a Kurdish al Qaeda group that was the main resistance to Saddam post-First Gulf War.
 
Re: Trump makes unannounced trip to honor fallen Navy SEAL

Maybe we should let this act stand alone? Put the hatred aside, for one thread, anyway.
:roll: no hatred here. But saying "it's nice to have a President who respects the military again" because of this is stupid: A) Trump has indicated in the past that he did not, and B) he's not doing anything Obama didn't do.

Sent from my XT1526 using Tapatalk
 
Re: Trump makes unannounced trip to honor fallen Navy SEAL

You may want to research those incidents a bit more.
Iran raid. A c130 and a helicopter collided in the ground.
Black hawk down the Blackhawk was hit by a RPG.
The Obama raid a helicopter crashed due to loosing lift over a compound wall.

We have zero idea what happened at this raid.
My favorite part of that post was the implicit claim that four incidents over four decades represented "Every Time".

Sent from my XT1526 using Tapatalk
 
Re: Trump makes unannounced trip to honor fallen Navy SEAL

Trump goes to Delaware to witness return of remains of Navy SEAL killed in Botched Yemen raid - LA Times

"...The operation began as a mission to gather computers and electronic devices believed to contain information about the organization, Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula, and possibly about terrorist plots in the works. But it devolved unexpectedly into a firefight that also killed more than a dozen women and children.".."​
I still don't see what evidence you have to suggest that the mission wasn't successful.

Raid in Yemen: Risky From the Start and Costly in the End
By ERIC SCHMITT and DAVID E. SANGER
FEB. 1, 2017
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/01/...trump-yemen-commando-raid-questions.html?_r=0

[.....]
As it turned out, almost everything that could go wrong did.
[.....]
The death of Chief Petty Officer William Owens came after a chain of Mishaps and Misjudgments that plunged the elite commandos into a ferocious 50-minute firefight that also left three others wounded and a $75 million aircraft deliberately destroyed.
[.....]
Through a communications intercept, the commandos knew that the mission had been somehow compromised, but pressed on toward their target roughly five miles from where they had been flown into the area. “They kind of knew they were screwed from the beginning,” one former SEAL Team 6 official said.
With the crucial element of surprise Lost....


The man who died is an American Hero, perhaps not his commanders though.
 
Last edited:
Re: Trump makes unannounced trip to honor fallen Navy SEAL

Raid in Yemen: Risky From the Start and Costly in the End
By ERIC SCHMITT and DAVID E. SANGER
FEB. 1, 2017
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/01/...trump-yemen-commando-raid-questions.html?_r=0

[.....]
As it turned out, almost everything that could go wrong did.
[.....]
The death of Chief Petty Officer William Owens came after a chain of Mishaps and Misjudgments that plunged the elite commandos into a ferocious 50-minute firefight that also left three others wounded and a $75 million aircraft deliberately destroyed.
[.....]
Through a communications intercept, the commandos knew that the mission had been somehow compromised, but pressed on toward their target roughly five miles from where they had been flown into the area. “They kind of knew they were screwed from the beginning,” one former SEAL Team 6 official said.
With the crucial element of surprise Lost....


The man who died is an American Hero, perhaps not his commanders though.
Through a communications intercept, the commandos knew that the mission had been somehow compromised, but pressed on toward their target roughly five miles from where they had been flown into the area.

This needs to be investigated. Who made the call to continue the operation once the guys in harms way figured out it was FUBAR? Did they make the call? Was it their commander? Did they have pressure from the Whitehouse?
 
Re: Trump makes unannounced trip to honor fallen Navy SEAL

Through a communications intercept, the commandos knew that the mission had been somehow compromised, but pressed on toward their target roughly five miles from where they had been flown into the area.

This needs to be investigated. Who made the call to continue the operation once the guys in harms way figured out it was FUBAR? Did they make the call? Was it their commander? Did they have pressure from the Whitehouse?
I'm sure they are investigating it, but I suspect the results may be kept quiet for PR reasons. We don't want this "success" tarnished. But a great soldier and many civilians are dead.. as well as those wounded.
 
Re: Trump makes unannounced trip to honor fallen Navy SEAL

Quite the debater aren't you?

He's a master, one might say. ;)
 
Re: Trump makes unannounced trip to honor fallen Navy SEAL

:roll: no hatred here. But saying "it's nice to have a President who respects the military again" because of this is stupid: A) Trump has indicated in the past that he did not, and B) he's not doing anything Obama didn't do.

Sent from my XT1526 using Tapatalk

No hatred? C'mon, dude! LOL!
 
Back
Top Bottom