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Iran tests ballistic missile in defiance of UN resolution, US officials say

Mr Person said:
1. We tried those things in between. None of which has worked thus far.

2. Nobody criticizing Obama has been able to cough up a specific plan and explain why they would think it would work.

That tells me it isn't a false choice in this instance. Of course, it's easy to attack me or attack Obama, but doing so sure as hell doesn't prove that there's some kind of alternate solution that everyone else on Earth has overlooked thus far.

Are you the genius who found the solution literally nobody else came up with - not the military, not the intelligence agencies, not Obama, not Bush, not Israel? If not, stop complaining. There are no easy answers here, but you're telling me that I'm offering a false choice because there is an easy answer that, somehow, nobody can articulate.





Then again, I never said "do nothing." If there's a false choice it's in your response. If we aren't willing to engage in all-out war, then we do have options to slow down Iran's program. But based on your OP, you aren't happy with slowing them down, are you? So increasing sanctions or strengthening an embargo, stuff we already tried, isn't going to work.

Have you heard Einstein's definition of insanity? It applies here.
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First of all not sure that the embargo did not work at all. We could have completely shut down their ability to sell oil as an example which would cripple the country. We could have worked with the opposition within Iran instead of backing their fanatical leadership. Lastly, we could have knocked out their installations working on atomic weapons. The Israel did it with Iraq and they are a tiny nation that does not the weapons we have.

Or we can do what Obama did. Sign onto something that everyone knows will fail and leave for someone else to fix. Sort of what Bill Clinton did in North Korea.

How many rogue nations are you comfortable with having nuclear weapons. Just keep our heads down and hope they don't blow us up. Not sure that is a great strategy.
 
washunut said:
First of all not sure that the embargo did not work at all. We could have completely shut down their ability to sell oil as an example which would cripple the country. We could have worked with the opposition within Iran instead of backing their fanatical leadership. Lastly, we could have knocked out their installations working on atomic weapons. The Israel did it with Iraq and they are a tiny nation that does not the weapons we have.

Or we can do what Obama did. Sign onto something that everyone knows will fail and leave for someone else to fix. Sort of what Bill Clinton did in North Korea.

How many rogue nations are you comfortable with having nuclear weapons. Just keep our heads down and hope they don't blow us up. Not sure that is a great strategy.
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The embargo was working

Thats why obama needed an excuse to let the iranian mullahs off the hook before they toppled over
 
washunut said:
First of all not sure that the embargo did not work at all.
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I didn't say the embargo "didn't work at all." I said that everything we already have done on the embargo and sanctions front didn't stop the nukes. That's the subject: stopping nukes.

That's why we're having this discussion.

washunut said:
We could have completely shut down their ability to sell oil as an example which would cripple the country. We could have worked with the opposition within Iran instead of backing their fanatical leadership. Lastly, we could have knocked out their installations working on atomic weapons. The Israel did it with Iraq and they are a tiny nation that does not the weapons we have..
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How could we have stopped Iran from selling oil to Russia or China?

What does working with the opposition to Iran look like to you and why would it work?

How could we knock out their nuclear facilities, facilities now buried well underground to avoid bombardment from the air? AND how would that not be the start of a hot war?



washunut said:
Or we can do what Obama did. Sign onto something that everyone knows will fail and leave for someone else to fix. Sort of what Bill Clinton did in North Korea. How many rogue nations are you comfortable with having nuclear weapons. Just keep our heads down and hope they don't blow us up. Not sure that is a great strategy.
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As you are accidentally demonstrating, there are people who don't have the slightest clue about how complex this situation is.

"Everyone knows will fail"? Please.

1. You don't speak for "everyone."

2. There are plenty of people who say it was bad, but when I ask those people do explain what they think will work, they cannot articulate any reason to believe it would work. You didn't explain in the slightest bit of detail why you're either tried or impossible-without-war scenarios would work.



I've asked the same questions with the same result in every thread that blames Iran's nuke program on Obama. I get the same evasions, non-answers, and attacks. I have never seen someone actually try to explain WHY their idea would work, in light of all the things we have tried that didn't work.
 
Mr Person said:
What about the rest of my post?

This is a situation where I really see no value to criticizing what Obama did if one does not have a viable alternative. If we really want to stop Iran, it seems the only thing that will do it is a big violent struggle.

Nobody wants to take the lead in advocating that.
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I addressed the part that I addressed. I was not aware that I must address the whole. The remainder I have less of an opinion on.

Simple put, Obama violated the law he himself signed only months before as he knew there was no other way to get his way. Now we've got a hostile country with hundreds of millions to spend on terrorist activity and bomb building. How did that fix anything?
 
Mac77 said:
I don't think most Americans understood that obama foolishly overlooked preventing iran from developing the missile to carry the bomb they will be allowed to build in just 10 years

And thats why trump might tear up the deal they did sign

Too bad the previous administration already gave them the money they wanted
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The deal probably doesn't stop Iran from going nuclear. However, no deal also doesn't stop them.

What is Trump's strategy for stopping it?
 
washunut said:
First of all not sure that the embargo did not work at all. We could have completely shut down their ability to sell oil as an example which would cripple the country. We could have worked with the opposition within Iran instead of backing their fanatical leadership. Lastly, we could have knocked out their installations working on atomic weapons. The Israel did it with Iraq and they are a tiny nation that does not the weapons we have.

Or we can do what Obama did. Sign onto something that everyone knows will fail and leave for someone else to fix. Sort of what Bill Clinton did in North Korea.

How many rogue nations are you comfortable with having nuclear weapons. Just keep our heads down and hope they don't blow us up. Not sure that is a great strategy.
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So Trump clearly has a great strategy then. Care to outline it?
 
jimbo said:
I addressed the part that I addressed. I was not aware that I must address the whole. The remainder I have less of an opinion on.
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I don't know about "must", but I do think that criticism of the way someone handled a complex situation with no good answers is worth a lot less without a meaningful attempt to wrestle with possible better approaches.




jimbo said:
Simple put, Obama violated the law he himself signed only months before as he knew there was no other way to get his way. Now we've got a hostile country with hundreds of millions to spend on terrorist activity and bomb building. How did that fix anything?
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Whoa whoa whoa. How'd that word "Now" get in there?

We've been feuding with Iran on/off ever since we made a mess of it and basically triggered Khameni's rise. Iran was working on a nuke well before Obama took office. Nobody stopped them. Not Clinton, not Bush, not Obama, not Europe....no one.

Obama's deal tried something that had not worked before. Which leads me right back to the point: we know sanctions and embargoes didn't cause Iran to stop working on nukes. We therefore have no reason to think that more will. Either we try things short of war, or we make the decisions I've described previously.





(I'm also not sure that Obama's deal said anything about nuke-free missile testing).
 
Mac77 said:
Obama rewarded the iranians with $150 billion dollars that will buy a lot of nuclear missile research over time
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Put one of those new nuclear bombs on top of one of those new missiles they are testing, could be trouble ahead.
 
rocket88 said:
So then what is Trump's strategy?
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I don't know...Not on the inside....Guess you'll just have to wait, if you can get beyond demanding that all the problems of the Universe should have been solved 5 min past noon on Jan 20....
 
Mr Person said:
I don't know about "must", but I do think that criticism of the way someone handled a complex situation with no good answers is worth a lot less without a meaningful attempt to wrestle with possible better approaches.






Whoa whoa whoa. How'd that word "Now" get in there?

We've been feuding with Iran on/off ever since we made a mess of it and basically triggered Khameni's rise. Iran was working on a nuke well before Obama took office. Nobody stopped them. Not Clinton, not Bush, not Obama, not Europe....no one.

Obama's deal tried something that had not worked before. Which leads me right back to the point: we know sanctions and embargoes didn't cause Iran to stop working on nukes. We therefore have no reason to think that more will. Either we try things short of war, or we make the decisions I've described previously.





(I'm also not sure that Obama's deal said anything about nuke-free missile testing).
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I have no good answers regarding Iran. You're correct that Iran has been mishandled since the Shah days. By every President since at least Carter. The best I can come up with is to embargo the hell out of them until they have no nuclear capability. The other alternative is to turn the nation into a field of glass.

Now refers to the fact that Iran now has 400 million of unmarked bills to play with. That's never happened before. It's my understanding that there is another at least another 50 billion that they have access to. The treaty, which did, BTW, call for no nukes or delivery systems is a moot point. There is no treaty. The money's gone. The deal is 100% Obama. Another long line in the string of failed Iran policies.
 
j-mac said:
Trump doesn't have to scrap the Iran deal. Iran just did themselves...There is no agreement with Iran, it was always a sham.
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I'm sure someone will make it seem like Trump's fault anyway.
 
Mr Person said:
Your quote says it violates a "UN Resolution", not the Obama "deal".

And anyway, it should be noted that the Obama administration fully recognized that the deal would only delay their nuke program at best.
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Obama ran on his clever diplomacy with Iran in 2008. Yes, it was very clever of him to award them their $400 million and nuclear capabilities. I can see why he's never worked in the business sector.
 
Mr Person said:
So why did Iran work on its nuke program regardless of who was the US President?
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because building a bomb means everything to the mullahs

They will do it even if they have to starve their own people
 
rocket88 said:
The deal probably doesn't stop Iran from going nuclear. However, no deal also doesn't stop them.

What is Trump's strategy for stopping it?
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Trump's strategy now that obama has lost the game?

Thats a good question.

Iran has the $150 billion dollars that obama gave them

They have the sanctions lifted thanks to obama

So there are few good options remaining at this point thanks to the stupidity of obama
 
liberals want to wipe out or ignore their own blame and just sneer at trump to clean up the mess that they have caused

Probably other nations in the gulf like saudi arabia will go nuclear in response to the new threat posed by iran

which is bad for everyone
 
Mac77 said:
Trump's strategy now that obama has lost the game?

Thats a good question.

Iran has the $150 billion dollars that obama gave them

They have the sanctions lifted thanks to obama

So there are few good options remaining at this point thanks to the stupidity of obama
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So the strategy is to blame Obama.
 
Mac77 said:
because building a bomb means everything to the mullahs

They will do it even if they have to starve their own people
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And they will continue even with Trump as President.
 
rocket88 said:
The deal probably doesn't stop Iran from going nuclear. However, no deal also doesn't stop them.

What is Trump's strategy for stopping it?
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Hopefully he's going to sanction the living **** out them.
 
rocket88 said:
Because that's worked so well over the last 40 years?
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Right...the strategy of doing nothing. I forgot that you people think that's the greatest foreign policy eva.
 
apdst said:
Right...the strategy of doing nothing. I forgot that you people think that's the greatest foreign policy eva.
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We sanctioned the **** out of them for 40 years. Are the mullahs still in power? Yep. Were they working on a nuclear weapon that entire time? Yep.

Clearly, sanctioning them doesn't bring about the desired results.
 
j-mac said:
Trump doesn't have to scrap the Iran deal. Iran just did themselves...There is no agreement with Iran, it was always a sham.
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Gee, and here I thought Trump was supposed to be so scary and tough Iran wouldn't do this kind of thing anymore.
 
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