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Day 2: Protesters at PDX fight Trump immigration ban

Chomsky said:
Violence is never acceptable, as seen here.

But Trump has to learn to lead the country, rather than destroy it. He's acting like a dictator, fashioning EOs in secret and not even eliciting responses firstly from the affected agencies themselves, much less Congress. Why is he not consulting Congress and the agencies? Why is he not bringing his case to the People? This is no better than what Obama did with EOs, when he wouldn't/couldn't govern, either.

Dictatorial leadership like this always end badly, with a divided country ...
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How much coordination did President Obama do regarding his EO's?
 
reinoe said:
He made his case during the campaign. Remember when earlier in the thread you acknowledged he is doing exactly what he said he'd do???

Unless the majority of these protestors were asleep at the wheel or living under a rock none of this should be a surprise to anyone.
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They must have been too busy knitting their *****hats, and getting in tune with their ***** power.
 
Chomsky said:
What? :lamo

No, same lean as from the get-go. You must have confused me with someone else.

But my lean isn't accurate due to the forum not having "Social Democracy" or "Social Democrat" as a lean.

My lean would be best exhibited by Bernie Sanders, as long as there's a strong commitment to Capitalism. It's best exemplified by Northern European countries, particularly the Nordics. It's also generally associated with a very high quality of life (which to me is the ultimate barometer of good governance - the citizens' quality of life).

Social democracy
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I'm aware of what a Social Democracy is.

Also, I agree that "quality of life" is a good barometer, but I an certain we'd disagree quite a bit on how to judge "quality of life", and likely any attempt at quantify QOL you use were drawn from fellow left leaning people who give added weight to things you want and downplay things I would value higher.
 
Chomsky said:
This getting pretty bad.

I'm more and more convinced Trump is the worst thing to happen to this country since Nixon, or actually worse.

His policies are going to tear the country apart. He absolutely does not know how to lead, how to unite, how to move the country forward. He seems hopeless in this endeavor.
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No kidding. I view the federal government as mired in corruption and incompetence. What Trump is doing is better than anything I have seen in my lifetime from government. I don't like his style or his personality but I truly love what he is doing. I'll put up with Trump in return for Trumps actions.
 
Chomsky said:
This getting pretty bad.

I'm more and more convinced Trump is the worst thing to happen to this country since Nixon, or actually worse.

His policies are going to tear the country apart. He absolutely does not know how to lead, how to unite, how to move the country forward. He seems hopeless in this endeavor.
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More histrionics... Pres. Obama didn't destroy this country and neither is Pres. Trump going to...
 
mike2810 said:
Yep.
Just political posturing. Noted, he did say he would act on his own when Congress (doesn't do what he wants).
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Yep, he then opened up the precedent for a President to just end run....I don't like it all that much, but it doesn't surprise me either....Can't have one side do it, then call foul when their opposition gets in and does it too.
 
Chomsky said:
This getting pretty bad.

His policies are going to tear the country apart. He absolutely does not know how to lead, how to unite, how to move the country forward. He seems hopeless in this endeavor.
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faithful_servant said:
More histrionics... Pres. Obama didn't destroy this country and neither is Pres. Trump going to...
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But both went beyond their mandates:

Obama with his executive orders regarding immigration which attempted to circumvent the legislative branch and to use an artificially increased immigration rate as a political tool. Obama also via executive actions initially attempted to force churches to violate their own teachings by ordering them to provide BC and abortion inducing drugs because obtaining these things for "free" are were defined as "rights".

Now, Trump, by executive order, issues near blanket bans despite the fact that such action was not recommended by DHS and cannot be supported by new facts. Trump also threatens a trade war with out any consultation with congress.

Any leader exceeding the historical mandate of their society promotes social instability. It does not matter who is exceeding the mandate, nor why they are exceeding the mandate. Instability is not good for democracies- or economies.
 
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Chomsky said:
What? :lamo

No, same lean as from the get-go. You must have confused me with someone else.

But my lean isn't accurate due to the forum not having "Social Democracy" or "Social Democrat" as a lean.

My lean would be best exhibited by Bernie Sanders, as long as there's a strong commitment to Capitalism. It's best exemplified by Northern European countries, particularly the Nordics. It's also generally associated with a very high quality of life (which to me is the ultimate barometer of good governance - the citizens' quality of life).

Social democracy
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Government is not the best at providing a high quality of life

Its better if government stay out of the way and citizens provide the quality for themselves
 
jmotivator said:
I'm aware of what a Social Democracy is.

Also, I agree that "quality of life" is a good barometer, but I an certain we'd disagree quite a bit on how to judge "quality of life", and likely any attempt at quantify QOL you use were drawn from fellow left leaning people who give added weight to things you want and downplay things I would value higher.
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And that's perfectly reasonable.
 
Mac77 said:
Government is not the best at providing a high quality of life

Its better if government stay out of the way and citizens provide the quality for themselves
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Yes, in general and within reason.

There has to be law & regulation to allow freedom and capitalism to flourish, and you are right in that the least amount of government to get the job done, is the best.
 
fmw said:
No kidding. I view the federal government as mired in corruption and incompetence. What Trump is doing is better than anything I have seen in my lifetime from government. I don't like his style or his personality but I truly love what he is doing. I'll put up with Trump in return for Trumps actions.
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Well, I do agree with a fair amount of his "general" message. I just passionately dislike the messenger.

However, the jury's still out as to whether he & his policies will help, or hinder, working Americans.

We shall see.
 
Chomsky said:
No way did I see that as an attempt to alienate.
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Well, when you couple that with the false reports that Z was a white guy, then he was a white latino, then ofcourse we all know he just turned out to be a dirtbag that squandered any support....But his actions were correct.
 
mike2810 said:
How much coordination did President Obama do regarding his EO's?
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President Obama virtually always attempted to build public consensus and elicit Congress' assistance.

It didn't always work, but the guy seemed to make an effort.

But why are we discussing Obama, when the problem is Trump?
 
Chomsky said:
Well, I do agree with a fair amount of his "general" message. I just passionately dislike the messenger.

However, the jury's still out as to whether he & his policies will help, or hinder, working Americans.

We shall see.
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We're like-minded here. The guy drives me nuts, but I appreciate the purposeful intent he's demonstrating and his utter lack of regard for the media. That's refreshing.

Now, if he'd just bone up that vocabulary and lay off the constant superlatives.
 
reinoe said:
He made his case during the campaign. Remember when earlier in the thread you acknowledged he is doing exactly what he said he'd do???

Unless the majority of these protestors were asleep at the wheel or living under a rock none of this should be a surprise to anyone.
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You actually hit an interesting point, here.

How many of those protesters didn't vote, assuming Hillary would skate to an easy coronation, only to wake-up the next day to their worst nightmare?

There's consequences to be paid for inaction.
 
Chomsky said:
You actually hit an interesting point, here.

How many of those protesters didn't vote, assuming Hillary would skate to an easy coronation, only to wake-up the next day to their worst nightmare?

There's consequences to be paid for inaction.
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I'm sure quite a few...The networks were all giving them a reason to stay home reporting that Hillary, (as Bob Beckel on CNN put it) could win this from jail....lol
 
j-mac said:
Well, when you couple that with the false reports that Z was a white guy, then he was a white latino, then ofcourse we all know he just turned out to be a dirtbag that squandered any support....But his actions were correct.
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Well, without re-litigating that case I thought he should've suffered some legal consequence. I won't second-guess the jury, but I did see him complicit in the death regardless of the technicality at the exact moment of death. I thought he should've received some more minor charge for his contributions. I'm not exactly sure what that would be.

I haven't followed the civil case, but I suspect he was found at least partially liable.
 
Chomsky said:
Well, without re-litigating that case I thought he should've suffered some legal consequence. I won't second-guess the jury, but I did see him complicit in the death regardless of the technicality at the exact moment of death. I thought he should've received some more minor charge for his contributions. I'm not exactly sure what that would be.

I haven't followed the civil case, but I suspect he was found at least partially liable.
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Yeah, I can't remember...But I know since then he has been more akin to OJ....Lock him up for being a douchbag in life...He is unacceptable.
 
I didn't watch the video but it's probably of one or more people behaving badly, even though the overwhelming majority of protesters were entirely peaceful and supportive of humanitarian principles, which up until this week was generally something we've tried to work toward rather than deliberately dismantle.

But we can expect this in the many months to come as protests continue: Breitbart and Foxnews will ignore the message and get that one photograph of a protester littering the sidewalk with a Burger King wrapper. While Trump supporters will continue to masturbate to these videos in order to make themselves feel better about the blatantly increasing xenophobic decisions of Trump, I would advise everybody else to just ignore them.
 
Chomsky said:
Well, I do agree with a fair amount of his "general" message. I just passionately dislike the messenger.

However, the jury's still out as to whether he & his policies will help, or hinder, working Americans.

We shall see.
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The messenger isn't important. Neither is the message. All that matters are the actions. While we all understand that the president doesn't "run" the economy, what he is doing is likely to help government get out of the way to some degree. That is likely to help rather than hurt the economy. It is hard to image otherwise.
 
reinoe said:
The worst thing to happen to this nation has been the media stoking fires with their fake news.

Nobody has even been able to articulate how this was a "Muslim Ban" but even now the MSM is portraying this as a "Muslim Ban". I'm just glad this is happening in the winter where most of the liberals are hibernating. Once summer comes around and these animals and trolls start leaving their caves, you can see non-stop riots.

Speaking of riots...remember when most of the protestors arrested in Portland were not even registered to vote? These are not protestors, these are saboteurs who are looking to harm this country.
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Let's skip the the media then, and go straight to the source for articulation & clarification.


 
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