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Trump argument bolstered: Clinton received 800,000 votes from noncitizens, study find

chuckiechan

chuckiechan

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Hillary Clinton received 800,000 votes from noncitizens, bolsters Trump argument, study finds - Washington Times

Hillary Clinton garnered more than 800,000 votes from noncitizens on Nov. 8, an approximation far short of President Trump’s estimate of up to 5 million illegal voters but supportive of his charges of fraud.

Political scientist Jesse Richman of Old Dominion University in Norfolk, Virginia, has worked with colleagues to produce groundbreaking research on noncitizen voting, and this week he posted a blog in response to Mr. Trump’s assertion.

Based on national polling by a consortium of universities, a report by Mr. Richman said 6.4 percent of the estimated 20 million adult noncitizens in the U.S. voted in November. He extrapolated that that percentage would have added 834,381 net votes for Mrs. Clinton, who received about 2.8 million more votes than Mr. Trump.
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My point is this: We have no problem studying everything that comes across the radar screen, so there is nothing wrong with studying this. California, and other "machine" states, certainly have certainly created a climate of illegality being "no big thing".
 
Re: Trump argument bolstered: Clinton received 800,000 votes from noncitizens, study

Weird, no link to the study.
 
Re: Trump argument bolstered: Clinton received 800,000 votes from noncitizens, study

This would drop hillarys vote advantage down 25% before the investigation even starts
 
Re: Trump argument bolstered: Clinton received 800,000 votes from noncitizens, study

And how, pray tell, did he "extrapolate" that?
 
Re: Trump argument bolstered: Clinton received 800,000 votes from noncitizens, study

Deuce said:
Weird, no link to the study.
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https://fs.wp.odu.edu/jrichman/2016...argin-of-trumps-popular-vote-loss-to-clinton/

January 24, 2017.

Although Press Secretary Sean Spicer claimed today that millions voted illegally in the November 2016 election, on November 28, 2016 I published the following statement indicating that our analysis does not support his claim. Since then, no new data, facts or analyses have emerged that require us to revisit or change the findings of the 2014 study to which Mr. Spicer refers. We stand by our findings.
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Which is not to say that Trump is right or wrong, but rather that maybe there is something to the idea that a significant number of illegal votes are being cast.
 
Re: Trump argument bolstered: Clinton received 800,000 votes from noncitizens, study

The original original report is here

http://www.judicialwatch.org/wp-con...tizens-Vote-in-US-Elections-Richman-et-al.pdf

And his comments are based on extrapolation from that. There isnt any real hard facts here, just estimates. So Trump is not neccesarily wrong, but we also dont have any evidence either way. Democrats are hard against voter ID so I dont know if we'll ever really know who is voting.
 
Re: Trump argument bolstered: Clinton received 800,000 votes from noncitizens, study

Mac77 said:
This would drop hillarys vote advantage down 25% before the investigation even starts
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jonny5 said:
The original original report is here

http://www.judicialwatch.org/wp-con...tizens-Vote-in-US-Elections-Richman-et-al.pdf

And his comments are based on extrapolation from that. There isnt any real hard facts here, just estimates. So Trump is not neccesarily wrong, but we also dont have any evidence either way. Democrats are hard against voter ID so I dont know if we'll ever really know who is voting.
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“I can’t quite account for the math being so badly wrong in their analyses,” he says of the Trump administration’s interpretation of his report.
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Welp, the guy who wrote the damn study says this is wrong. I guess that's the thread.
 
Re: Trump argument bolstered: Clinton received 800,000 votes from noncitizens, study

Deuce said:
Welp, the guy who wrote the damn study says this is wrong. I guess that's the thread.
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So the trump administration lied about the report according to the report's author, and the washington times reported the trump administration's lie as absolute truth.

Go figure. I predict we will see this info flow pattern a lot more in the future.
 
Re: Trump argument bolstered: Clinton received 800,000 votes from noncitizens, study

Deuce said:
Welp, the guy who wrote the damn study says this is wrong. I guess that's the thread.
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You're right. The OP claimed an estimate of 800,000 when it was actually 835,000.
 
Re: Trump argument bolstered: Clinton received 800,000 votes from noncitizens, study

Taylor said:
You're right. The OP claimed an estimate of 800,000 when it was actually 835,000.
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No, the author of the study says the entire interpretation here is bogus.

You don't care, do you?
 
Re: Trump argument bolstered: Clinton received 800,000 votes from noncitizens, study

Deuce said:
Welp, the guy who wrote the damn study says this is wrong. I guess that's the thread.
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Oh, no, Trump must be right! The thread will continue.
 
Re: Trump argument bolstered: Clinton received 800,000 votes from noncitizens, study

jonny5 said:
The original original report is here

http://www.judicialwatch.org/wp-con...tizens-Vote-in-US-Elections-Richman-et-al.pdf

And his comments are based on extrapolation from that. There isnt any real hard facts here, just estimates. So Trump is not neccesarily wrong, but we also dont have any evidence either way. Democrats are hard against voter ID so I dont know if we'll ever really know who is voting.
Click to expand...

Republicans have never adequately explained what voter ID laws would accomplish. Voter fraud, as it exists today, typically takes the form of absentee ballots. Impersonation at the polls is extraordinarily rare.
 
Re: Trump argument bolstered: Clinton received 800,000 votes from noncitizens, study

Dittohead not! said:
Oh, no, Trump must be right! The thread will continue.
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Oh yeah, I didn't think for a second the "alternative facts" crowd was going to change their opinion on this.
 
Re: Trump argument bolstered: Clinton received 800,000 votes from noncitizens, study

TheGoverness said:
Here you go, Cardinal:

The Perils of Cherry Picking Low Frequency Events in Large Sample Surveys | CCES
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The long term goal here isn't just about about ridiculous claims surrounding inauguration attendance or fictional illegal voters, but to convince his supporters that nothing in the media can be trusted. That way, when job reports or the number of people who have health insurance coverage come out, Trump will be able to dismiss them and claim that he's the sole arbiter of truth.

I started a thread some weeks ago asking Trump supporters what their moral limit was, and with the events of the last week we can now know for certain and beyond the shadow of any doubt that no limit exists as they're allowing Trump to define their reality with complete and utter totality. When they know the illegal voter claim is baseless but believe it anyway, and when they refuse to accept the evidence of an aerial photo of the inauguration, that's it folks: all dialogue with them is off.
 
Re: Trump argument bolstered: Clinton received 800,000 votes from noncitizens, study

Deuce said:
Weird, no link to the study.
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There is this from the article:

Mr. Richman relies on a one-of-a-kind poll: the Cooperative Congressional Election Survey. Every two years, a consortium of 28 universities produces a detailed report on voters and their views based on polling by YouGov.

Tucked inside the lengthy questionnaire is a question on citizenship status: A significant number of respondents anonymously acknowledged they were not citizens when they voted.

Three professors at Old Dominion University — Mr. Richman, Gulshan A. Chattha and David C. Earnest — took these answers, did further research and extrapolated that of a 19.4 million estimate of adult noncitizens, about 620,000 were illegally registered to vote in the 2008 presidential election. Using other measuring tools, they said, the actual number of noncitizen voters could be as low as 38,000 and as high as 2.8 million.
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There should be no out cry not to study it. What are people afraid of?
 
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Re: Trump argument bolstered: Clinton received 800,000 votes from noncitizens, study

chuckiechan said:
Hillary Clinton received 800,000 votes from noncitizens, bolsters Trump argument, study finds - Washington Times



My point is this: We have no problem studying everything that comes across the radar screen, so there is nothing wrong with studying this. California, and other "machine" states, certainly have certainly created a climate of illegality being "no big thing".
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I recommend that you and Trumpeters pay for it then. After that please pay for an objective study to determine the net effect of building a wall on the southern border.
 
Re: Trump argument bolstered: Clinton received 800,000 votes from noncitizens, study

This is what happens when you put Steve Bannon in office as Minister of Propaganda.

Trump was a total bull**** artist during his campaign, and now he's exactly the same in his Presidency.

This guy is going to go down as the most lying sack of **** since Nixon. But he'll probably be more criminal, since unlike Nixon's low level B & E's, Trump's billionaire class of buddies can get away with high-level institutionalized crime.

I'm afraid Trump's Presidency may turn-out worse than we ever expected - and we expected it to be pretty bad! He's working extraordinarily hard at dividing the country.
 
Re: Trump argument bolstered: Clinton received 800,000 votes from noncitizens, study

Deuce said:
No, the author of the study says the entire interpretation here is bogus.

You don't care, do you?
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Of course not. Trump supporters treat lies like a ponzi scheme, just keep bringing more and more lies in, one pilled on top of the other, to justify previous lies.
 
Re: Trump argument bolstered: Clinton received 800,000 votes from noncitizens, study

chuckiechan said:
There is this from the article:



There should be no out cry not to study it. What are people afraid of?
Click to expand...

I get it. Dems have blocked and blocked every kind of voter ID law proposed, and then you see stuff like this, and you think, well ****, we can't prove anything either way, because the Dems block every single attempt at voter ID imaginable, and it looks and smells a bit fishy. AmIright?

However, what you're doing here is accepting assumption as fact. 1st assumption...that people are answering this questionnaire honestly. Big mistake. If I were here illegally, I would never admit it. To anyone. Ever. Not anonymously, not publicly, not in any way.

2nd assumption...that YouGov, the org doing the polling, is getting an accurate slice of America that can then be extrapolated. The are the same people that said Trump could never win.
 
Re: Trump argument bolstered: Clinton received 800,000 votes from noncitizens, study

Cardinal said:
The long term goal here isn't just about about ridiculous claims surrounding inauguration attendance or fictional illegal voters, but to convince his supporters that nothing in the media can be trusted. That way, when job reports or the number of people who have health insurance coverage come out, Trump will be able to dismiss them and claim that he's the sole arbiter of truth.

I started a thread some weeks ago asking Trump supporters what their moral limit was, and with the events of the last week we can now know for certain and beyond the shadow of any doubt that no limit exists as they're allowing Trump to define their reality with complete and utter totality. When they know the illegal voter claim is baseless but believe it anyway, and when they refuse to accept the evidence of an aerial photo of the inauguration, that's it folks: all dialogue with them is off.
Click to expand...

Tell it, brother.

“If we're entering a brave new world of government assault on consensus reality, that will have far-reaching consequences not yet obvious.” ~ J.M. Berger

How can anyone trust data that comes from the Trump Administration? Americans cannot nor can other nations, including our allies. The U.S. has lost all credibility.
 
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Re: Trump argument bolstered: Clinton received 800,000 votes from noncitizens, study

Cardinal said:
The long term goal here isn't just about about ridiculous claims surrounding inauguration attendance or fictional illegal voters, but to convince his supporters that nothing in the media can be trusted. That way, when job reports or the number of people who have health insurance coverage come out, Trump will be able to dismiss them and claim that he's the sole arbiter of truth.

I started a thread some weeks ago asking Trump supporters what their moral limit was, and with the events of the last week we can now know for certain and beyond the shadow of any doubt that no limit exists as they're allowing Trump to define their reality with complete and utter totality. When they know the illegal voter claim is baseless but believe it anyway, and when they refuse to accept the evidence of an aerial photo of the inauguration, that's it folks: all dialogue with them is off.
Click to expand...
What you are seeing here is a coup de etat by the billionaire class, based upon inciting rampant nationalism and disinformation amongst the proletariat class.

And it's working.
 
Re: Trump argument bolstered: Clinton received 800,000 votes from noncitizens, study

chuckiechan said:
There is this from the article:



There should be no out cry not to study it. What are people afraid of?
Click to expand...

Study it all you want. But stop lying and misinterpreting the results of studies: https://www.wired.com/2017/01/author-trumps-favorite-voter-fraud-study-says-everyones-wrong/

So what people are afraid of, is that just like in this thread, Trump supporters will just lie about and misrepresent the results of a study and continue to do so even when they author of the study says that they are lying about it.
 
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