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Trump pledges 'major investigation into voter fraud'

Re: Trump Voter Investigation

IOW, it's President Trump's idea, so you don't like it.

Wrong! I don't care who comes up with the idea. That's the biggest problem with too many people. They form their opinion based on who is supporting it. Trump's idea that other countries should bear more of the expense of their defense is a good one in my opinion, although I don't go as far as wanting them to have nukes as Trump said. For example, we spend more than twice the percentage of our GDP on defense compared to some of our NATO allies.
 
Re: Trump Voter Investigation

Don't you want elections to be as proper as possible? (Of course you don't.)

Have you considered the possibility that voter ID can end up stopping more legitimate votes than it stops fraudulent votes, and therefore "more proper" is a debateable outcome?

and before the inevitable: "what you think black people are too dumb to get IDs" let me say no. There are other reasons legitimate votes get stopped. You can claim it's stupidity if you want, but I will disagree with you :)
 
Re: Trump Voter Investigation

Trump pledges 'major investigation into voter fraud' - BBC News

He is going to investigate a claim made by Info wars. There is plenty of research saying this did not happen. IMO best report says 56 cases from city to fed since 2000. I get he is trying to help with the Texas case the court just sent back, but this will hurt it. There is a ton of evidence from many countries that says there was fraud in this election, but it was committed by Russians, not illegals. Is this a stupid way of diverting attention? Is he so fragile that he can't stand not winning the popular vote? Does he think that illegals are willing to risk deportation just to vote against him?

Cost benefit is my favorite type of analysis. If an illegal illegally votes he might be found to be illegal. If found to be illegal, he may go to jail. He may be deported. He may lose his life, and family, and be forced to go back. FOR ONE VOTE?!?!?! Give me a break. For 3 million people to risk this to stand against trump?!?!?! There would be facebook pages, and organizations, it would take a VERY concerted effort to make 3 million people believe voting in an election ONE TIME is worth risking deportation. It's just stupid.

He'd have to be a ****ing moron to investigate this because it would be clear that he's completely full of ****.
 
Re: Trump Voter Investigation

Too that extent not everyone was shocked, in fact both michael moore and nate silver predicted months before the election trump had a high chance of sweeping the rust belt.

My point stands...ALMOST the entire fricken world thought Clinton was going to win...including Trump. In fact, he wants an investigation because he still can't believe he won. lol
 
Re: Trump Voter Investigation

He'd have to be a ****ing moron to investigate this because it would be clear that he's completely full of ****.

I really can't imagine what happens when foreign leaders begin making fun of him out loud.
 
Re: Trump Voter Investigation

Wrong! I don't care who comes up with the idea. That's the biggest problem with too many people. They form their opinion based on who is supporting it. Trump's idea that other countries should bear more of the expense of their defense is a good one in my opinion, although I don't go as far as wanting them to have nukes as Trump said. For example, we spend more than twice the percentage of our GDP on defense compared to some of our NATO allies.

Post saved for future reference.
 
Re: Trump Voter Investigation

7 out of 10 times, that might be a good instinct.

Sent from my LG-H910 using Tapatalk

Every instinct about President Trump has been wrong, so far.
 
Re: Trump Voter Investigation

I really can't imagine what happens when foreign leaders begin making fun of him out loud.

US presidents face some of the harshest criticism this world has to offer. It is no position for a thin-skinned, authoritarian egomaniac.
 
Re: Trump Voter Investigation

US presidents face some of the harshest criticism this world has to offer. It is no position for a thin-skinned, authoritarian egomaniac.

If only he could use facts! Just say thing that happen, that's like getting points on the SAT for spelling your name right.
 
Re: Trump Voter Investigation

He'd have to be a ****ing moron to investigate this because it would be clear that he's completely full of ****.

And he is going to... I feel like crying.
 
Re: Trump Voter Investigation

Just one vote for Clinton needs to be investigated. Clearly, a clean election would have resulted in a unanimous Trump win.
 
Re: Trump Voter Investigation

East St. Louis: More Voters Registered Than Citizens That Live There

According to the 2010 Census, East St. Louis had a total population of 27,006. The population
for those 18 and over, or those eligible to vote, was 19,098. With 22,000 registered voters,
it seems to be a numerical impossibility for East St. Louis' Board of Elections to have an
accurate or legal list of register voters.

1) Four Plead Guilty To Democrat Vote Fraud In East St. Louis - Minx.cc
Leroy Scott Jr., 46; Lillie Nichols, 51; Terrance R. Stitch, 43; and his wife, Sandra Stith, 54;
pleaded guilty Tuesday to one count each of vote-buying before U.S. District Judge David Herndon on Tuesday morning.
The East St. Louis Democratic Committee held organizational meetings on Oct. 13, 20 and 27,
"Discussed at organizational meeting, the need to pay voters for voting the 'Democratic ticket' during general election,

Better yet:

East St. Louis supervisor accused of filling out ballots himself. At a politician’s property where two dozen
registered voters are reportedly living. It’s the home of East St. Louis Township Supervisor Oliver Hamilton.
One of his Hamilton’s jobs is to dispense benefits to needy residents.

Hamilton owns a boarding house, records show 11 of those boarders voted in the last election.
It’s suspicious to have a run down, boarded up 1,100-square foot home with a dozen registered voters.
The property owner, Hamilton, is partnering with a convicted voter fraud felon—none other than Kelvin Ellis.
It seems that going to jail is a qualification for moving up in East St. Louis political culture.

Matt Hawkins, head of the East St. Louis Alliance for Change remarked “He’s worked with these people.
He’s gone to these doors. He’s offered to help them with various things,” Hawkins said. “So right around
election time he goes back to them and he says, ‘Hey, give me the ballot and I’ll give you X amount of dollars.
You give me the ballot and I’ll fill it out and turn it in for you.’”

Fox 2 News found the name these individuals gave us in the voter records, showing they voted in three of
the last four elections. Hamilton’s home has among the most voters, but after checking voter records, we
found dozens of homes with many registered voters. Forty-two homes in East St. Louis show eight or more
voters. East St. Louis Election Board Chairperson Kandrise Mosby said she is doing something about it.

“As far as fraud goes, it happens; it happens throughout not just this city, not just this county,
but throughout the country,” she said.

There is evidence of bad registrations. There are a couple prosecutions, but how many people defraud welfare? SS? Medicare? The biggest examples of provable actual fraud votes being cast are, by a vast majority, mail-in. Until the right addresses that I have no concern for the 56 or so case that have been proven at the federal level since 2000 of in person. Jaywalking is a bigger threat than that. And no system as big as our elections will be perfect, but 56 out of the millions and millions and millions of votes just for president nevermind congress. Not worried about that. Not really worried about mail-in, but more worried about mail-in than in person.
 
Re: Trump Voter Investigation

Trump pledges 'major investigation into voter fraud' - BBC News

He is going to investigate a claim made by Info wars. There is plenty of research saying this did not happen. IMO best report says 56 cases from city to fed since 2000. I get he is trying to help with the Texas case the court just sent back, but this will hurt it. There is a ton of evidence from many countries that says there was fraud in this election, but it was committed by Russians, not illegals. Is this a stupid way of diverting attention? Is he so fragile that he can't stand not winning the popular vote? Does he think that illegals are willing to risk deportation just to vote against him?

Cost benefit is my favorite type of analysis. If an illegal illegally votes he might be found to be illegal. If found to be illegal, he may go to jail. He may be deported. He may lose his life, and family, and be forced to go back. FOR ONE VOTE?!?!?! Give me a break. For 3 million people to risk this to stand against trump?!?!?! There would be facebook pages, and organizations, it would take a VERY concerted effort to make 3 million people believe voting in an election ONE TIME is worth risking deportation. It's just stupid.

I am sure Trump will treat this like he treated his investigation of Obama's birth certificate. "We are finding very interesting things," but will never release anything because he is full of crap. :lol:
 
Re: Trump Voter Investigation

East St. Louis: More Voters Registered Than Citizens That Live There

According to the 2010 Census, East St. Louis had a total population of 27,006. The population
for those 18 and over, or those eligible to vote, was 19,098. With 22,000 registered voters,
it seems to be a numerical impossibility for East St. Louis' Board of Elections to have an
accurate or legal list of register voters.

1) Four Plead Guilty To Democrat Vote Fraud In East St. Louis - Minx.cc
Leroy Scott Jr., 46; Lillie Nichols, 51; Terrance R. Stitch, 43; and his wife, Sandra Stith, 54;
pleaded guilty Tuesday to one count each of vote-buying before U.S. District Judge David Herndon on Tuesday morning.
The East St. Louis Democratic Committee held organizational meetings on Oct. 13, 20 and 27,
"Discussed at organizational meeting, the need to pay voters for voting the 'Democratic ticket' during general election,

Better yet:

East St. Louis supervisor accused of filling out ballots himself. At a politician’s property where two dozen
registered voters are reportedly living. It’s the home of East St. Louis Township Supervisor Oliver Hamilton.
One of his Hamilton’s jobs is to dispense benefits to needy residents.

Hamilton owns a boarding house, records show 11 of those boarders voted in the last election.
It’s suspicious to have a run down, boarded up 1,100-square foot home with a dozen registered voters.
The property owner, Hamilton, is partnering with a convicted voter fraud felon—none other than Kelvin Ellis.
It seems that going to jail is a qualification for moving up in East St. Louis political culture.

Matt Hawkins, head of the East St. Louis Alliance for Change remarked “He’s worked with these people.
He’s gone to these doors. He’s offered to help them with various things,” Hawkins said. “So right around
election time he goes back to them and he says, ‘Hey, give me the ballot and I’ll give you X amount of dollars.
You give me the ballot and I’ll fill it out and turn it in for you.’”

Fox 2 News found the name these individuals gave us in the voter records, showing they voted in three of
the last four elections. Hamilton’s home has among the most voters, but after checking voter records, we
found dozens of homes with many registered voters. Forty-two homes in East St. Louis show eight or more
voters. East St. Louis Election Board Chairperson Kandrise Mosby said she is doing something about it.

“As far as fraud goes, it happens; it happens throughout not just this city, not just this county,
but throughout the country,” she said.

Same here in Detroit, of all places.

Detroit's election woes: 782 more votes than voters - freep
Records: Too many votes in 37% of Detroit’s precincts Detroit News
Made national
Oops! Stein's Recount Turns Up More Votes Than Voters in Detroit

Some theories say that it's the Detroit poll workers who miscounted. I'm not so sure, thinking that might be trying to 'paper' over it. Why only this sort of result in Detroit, a Democratic strong hold for decades, and not elsewhere in the state?

Part of the problem is bad data in the voter rolls, which need to be cleaned up, but no one dares to do so. I figure if you've not voted in the last 4 elections in your precinct, you have to register over again. (OK, if not 4 elections, then 4 years or something - work out the appropriate measure of lack of participation before being forced to re-register).

Two Points being, 1). There's a lot of bad data on the rolls. 2). To be accurate it needs to be cleared up / removed to be accurate.
 
Re: Trump Voter Investigation

I am sure Trump will treat this like he treated his investigation of Obama's birth certificate. "We are finding very interesting things," but will never release anything because he is full of crap. :lol:

Ok so he is doing info blackouts where agencies have to put their info through his baby hands first. This is the kink in my plan. I would hope he would order the investigation, they would say no real fraud, He would say, "WRONG!," they would call him a liar. That's all I got.
 
Re: Trump Voter Investigation

The reason for this action is extremely dangerous. We now have a president will take us down a dark hole with actions based not on reality, but on an alternative reality based on alternative facts, anecdotal evidence, and unsupported conspiracy theories. This particular action will most likely just result in a waste of time and money. That's not so bad. However, it seems that he is incapable of and resistant to taking the time and effort to analyze and understand the complex problems our world faces. This will likely result in many of his actions causing unintended consequences including economic disruption, unfavorable geopolitical realignments and potentially unnecessary wars resulting in huge expense and an unfortunate waste of human life.

A lot of this is about his ego. He can't handle anything. Just look at what happened with Mexico today. The Mexican President refused to meet with Trump because Trump was a disrespectful bully. Then Trump responded by threatening a tariff on Twitter.

I reading tweets from the former president of Mexico, and he is straight up mocking Trump, twitting #F##kingWall, and pointing out Trump couldn't even the popular vote.

This is only going to get worse, and Trump supporters are sorely mistaken if the dont think these kind of antics will cost us.
 
Re: Trump Voter Investigation

Same here in Detroit, of all places.

Detroit's election woes: 782 more votes than voters - freep
Records: Too many votes in 37% of Detroit’s precincts Detroit News
Made national
Oops! Stein's Recount Turns Up More Votes Than Voters in Detroit

Some theories say that it's the Detroit poll workers who miscounted. I'm not so sure, thinking that might be trying to 'paper' over it. Why only this sort of result in Detroit, a Democratic strong hold for decades, and not elsewhere in the state?

Part of the problem is bad data in the voter rolls, which need to be cleaned up, but no one dares to do so. I figure if you've not voted in the last 4 elections in your precinct, you have to register over again. (OK, if not 4 elections, then 4 years or something - work out the appropriate measure of lack of participation before being forced to re-register).

Two Points being, 1). There's a lot of bad data on the rolls. 2). To be accurate it needs to be cleared up / removed to be accurate.

I agree with 1 and 2. The issue in Detroit is that the poll workers keep tally marks. The computers do the same. They disagreed. There were irregularities that meant almost 40% of the counties are just done. They can not be recounted. What benefit was achieved and what did it cost. Is there any proof yet to say the irregularities benefited either party? I have lost luggage on a flight. I have had teachers give me someones else grade by mistake in elementary. I have gotten the wrong order at Taco Bell. I have seen poll volunteers. I feel like the biggest issue is removing the human element and its propensity to make mistakes in a bi-partisan approach, over tackling problems that are less than 0.00x% provable. Dead people were on registration lists that were not purged. They did not reregister. They did not vote. Is every death certificate sent directly to the election committees? That might aim to solve that problem. Maybe a quarterly list from all morgues and hospitals. But fraud occurs on both side, more times than not, accidentally. Less times than so, intentionally. But the effect of the real fraud offsets. Both sides have benefited and lost. 0.00x% inaccurate is fine until we speak about a president winning by one vote in the EC or population.
 
Re: Trump Voter Investigation

I agree with 1 and 2. The issue in Detroit is that the poll workers keep tally marks. The computers do the same. They disagreed. There were irregularities that meant almost 40% of the counties are just done. They can not be recounted. What benefit was achieved and what did it cost. Is there any proof yet to say the irregularities benefited either party? I have lost luggage on a flight. I have had teachers give me someones else grade by mistake in elementary. I have gotten the wrong order at Taco Bell. I have seen poll volunteers. I feel like the biggest issue is removing the human element and its propensity to make mistakes in a bi-partisan approach, over tackling problems that are less than 0.00x% provable. Dead people were on registration lists that were not purged. They did not reregister. They did not vote. Is every death certificate sent directly to the election committees? That might aim to solve that problem. Maybe a quarterly list from all morgues and hospitals. But fraud occurs on both side, more times than not, accidentally. Less times than so, intentionally. But the effect of the real fraud offsets. Both sides have benefited and lost. 0.00x% inaccurate is fine until we speak about a president winning by one vote in the EC or population.

Your point of cost vs benefit is well taken, but we'd also need to account for the benefit in trust and faith in the election system itself. This last time around, we have seen how distrust of that has a cost also that needs to be considered.
 
Re: Trump Voter Investigation

Your point of cost vs benefit is well taken, but we'd also need to account for the benefit in trust and faith in the election system itself. This last time around, we have seen how distrust of that has a cost also that needs to be considered.

Dang good point. I think this might be a point of political integrity. Either side could initiate it. The fact is conservatives push for ID laws that disproportionately affect the poor. The SC has offered ideas to bring the laws into compliance and they were rejected so the laws were rejected. Liberals enroll alot of new voters every election. I'm sure there are some Mickey Mouses and Donald Ducks voting. The political integrity comes form either side saying truly, here are the numbers we have. I show 0.00X% This is my source. Here is the text from my committee meetings. He is my opinion. And if the margin is 30% even 10% or 5%, we have an issue, but when the fraud can be compounded by exponents and still not show zero percent, I would say faith. When you can take all the fraud from the last 4 pres elections put an exponent on it and still not come up with the difference in the tightest pres race of that time; this is the best we can do, and I am satisfied. But pols use it as partisan lies. Oh voter fraud everywhere! Those calls tend to come from fed level folks, not states' committees. States' committees tend to show their paperwork. They have less to lose. And seeing as how elections are by the state according to the constitution, but not Bush v Gore, I would take my grievances there first.
 
Re: Trump Voter Investigation

Dang good point. I think this might be a point of political integrity. Either side could initiate it. The fact is conservatives push for ID laws that disproportionately affect the poor. The SC has offered ideas to bring the laws into compliance and they were rejected so the laws were rejected. Liberals enroll alot of new voters every election. I'm sure there are some Mickey Mouses and Donald Ducks voting. The political integrity comes form either side saying truly, here are the numbers we have. I show 0.00X% This is my source. Here is the text from my committee meetings. He is my opinion. And if the margin is 30% even 10% or 5%, we have an issue, but when the fraud can be compounded by exponents and still not show zero percent, I would say faith. When you can take all the fraud from the last 4 pres elections put an exponent on it and still not come up with the difference in the tightest pres race of that time; this is the best we can do, and I am satisfied. But pols use it as partisan lies. Oh voter fraud everywhere! Those calls tend to come from fed level folks, not states' committees. States' committees tend to show their paperwork. They have less to lose. And seeing as how elections are by the state according to the constitution, but not Bush v Gore, I would take my grievances there first.

I dispute the concept that voter ID disproportionately affect the poor. There's a multitude of everyday actions that require picture ID including applying for and collecting government benefits, not to mention banking accounts, cell phones, tobacco and alcohol, etc, the list is very very long. Still, sans any other form of ID, municipalities issue no cost / low cost ID card strictly for voting.

I agree, if the fraud "margin is 30% even 10% or 5%, we have an issue", one that needs to be addressed. Further agreement is on the point that the major parties are playing politics with the issue, as well as the states voting structures should be the first stop to address any fraud rates of those you indicate. Not at the national level right away.

Seems we have more in common here than not. :)
 
Re: Trump Voter Investigation

I dispute the concept that voter ID disproportionately affect the poor. There's a multitude of everyday actions that require picture ID including applying for and collecting government benefits, not to mention banking accounts, cell phones, tobacco and alcohol, etc, the list is very very long. Still, sans any other form of ID, municipalities issue no cost / low cost ID card strictly for voting.

I agree, if the fraud "margin is 30% even 10% or 5%, we have an issue", one that needs to be addressed. Further agreement is on the point that the major parties are playing politics with the issue, as well as the states voting structures should be the first stop to address any fraud rates of those you indicate. Not at the national level right away.

Seems we have more in common here than not. :)

Ok, point by point. I will come back to the affecting poor. I don't apply for government benefits. My banking account is over 15 years old. I never had to reshow my ID after a while. My signature works at my branch. There are many cell phone companies that will accept 3 or more forms of secondary ID. Do not need state ID. No one is going to card me for beer anymore.

"Still, sans any other form of ID, municipalities issue no cost / low cost ID card strictly for voting." This is where the wrong begins. From the SCOTUS opinion 16-393

2. From 2003 until 2013, in-person voters in Texas could cast a regular ballot by presenting a voter registration certificate, which is mailed to voters free of charge upon registration and is reissued every two years.
Voters appearing without a certificate still could cast a regular ballot by executing an affidavit of eligibility and presenting an alternate form of state-specified identification, such as a current or expired driver’s license; an employee or student identification card; a utility bill, bank statement, paycheck, or government document showing the voter’s name and address; or government mail addressed to the voter. During the decade in which those practices were in effect, approximately 20 million votes were cast in general elections in Texas. Only two cases of in-person voter impersonation were identified and prosecuted to conviction.

The law changed the majority of what the law was from 2003-2013. That was the issue. Further these changes violated federal law

When SB14 was enacted, Texas was subject to Section 5 of the VRA, 52 U.S.C. 10304, which required preclearance for jurisdictions identified under the formula specified in Section 4(b), 52 U.S.C. 10303(b). In March 2012, the Department of Justice denied preclearance.

Here is the disproportion.

The court found that more than 608,000 registered Texas voters lack the identification necessary to cast a regular, in-person ballot under SB14 and that a sharply disproportionate number of those voters are African American or Hispanic.

Link to the opinion
http://www.scotusblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/16-393-BIO-US.pdf

It never ceases to amaze me how much I have in common with so many people so little like me. I got a head start. As a young man I spent most of my free time with old men.
 
Re: Trump Voter Investigation

Ok, point by point. I will come back to the affecting poor. I don't apply for government benefits. My banking account is over 15 years old. I never had to reshow my ID after a while. My signature works at my branch. There are many cell phone companies that will accept 3 or more forms of secondary ID. Do not need state ID. No one is going to card me for beer anymore.

"Still, sans any other form of ID, municipalities issue no cost / low cost ID card strictly for voting." This is where the wrong begins. From the SCOTUS opinion 16-393

2. From 2003 until 2013, in-person voters in Texas could cast a regular ballot by presenting a voter registration certificate, which is mailed to voters free of charge upon registration and is reissued every two years.
Voters appearing without a certificate still could cast a regular ballot by executing an affidavit of eligibility and presenting an alternate form of state-specified identification, such as a current or expired driver’s license; an employee or student identification card; a utility bill, bank statement, paycheck, or government document showing the voter’s name and address; or government mail addressed to the voter. During the decade in which those practices were in effect, approximately 20 million votes were cast in general elections in Texas. Only two cases of in-person voter impersonation were identified and prosecuted to conviction.

The law changed the majority of what the law was from 2003-2013. That was the issue. Further these changes violated federal law

When SB14 was enacted, Texas was subject to Section 5 of the VRA, 52 U.S.C. 10304, which required preclearance for jurisdictions identified under the formula specified in Section 4(b), 52 U.S.C. 10303(b). In March 2012, the Department of Justice denied preclearance.

Here is the disproportion.

The court found that more than 608,000 registered Texas voters lack the identification necessary to cast a regular, in-person ballot under SB14 and that a sharply disproportionate number of those voters are African American or Hispanic.

Link to the opinion
http://www.scotusblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/16-393-BIO-US.pdf

It never ceases to amaze me how much I have in common with so many people so little like me. I got a head start. As a young man I spent most of my free time with old men.

Me? I'm no spring chicken either.

If SCOTUS rules as such, and there where in fact "608,000 registered Texas voters lack the identification", then there's more work to be done to either gets these people more into the mainstream and / or provide them with legit ID for voting. That many is too many to not be able to vote with a voter ID law in place.
 
Re: Trump Voter Investigation

Me? I'm no spring chicken either.

If SCOTUS rules as such, and there where in fact "608,000 registered Texas voters lack the identification", then there's more work to be done to either gets these people more into the mainstream and / or provide them with legit ID for voting. That many is too many to not be able to vote with a voter ID law in place.

Lol!

Why don't you take a little time with the opinion? You seem very reasonable. Prior to the law one could vote with a college ID, a few bills in their name, an employers ID, High School ID i'm sure if applicable. This law removed those 600k voters by uping the requirements. Now to legally up those requirements a need must be shown. there must be a public interest and the law must be narrowly tailored. The case showed 2 cases of convictions in 20 million votes. There is no public need for the law with rates of 0.0000001%

And there is no need to go mainstream. Especially in Texas where we value freedom. If I want to live off the grid, I can. I am not even required by law to EVER get ANY state ID. But because I choose that life does not mean my rights to vote can be suspended.
 
Re: Trump Voter Investigation

It is being reported that Trump's daughter, Tiffany, is registered to vote in two states. New York and Pennsylvania.

I am trying to confirm that. Stay tuned.............
 
Re: Trump Voter Investigation

It is being reported that Trump's daughter, Tiffany, is registered to vote in two states. New York and Pennsylvania.

I am trying to confirm that. Stay tuned.............

As long as both votes were for Trump, it's perfectly acceptable.
 
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