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Trump vows ‘insurance for everybody’ in Obamacare replacement plan

But you don't even know how much higher the rate would be for people with a pre-existing condition. I have a pre-existing condition and had insurance before Obamacare. I paid a higher rate for it but that insurance was actually much better than Obamacare and cheaper too. There are going to be tax credits for people buying insurance and those tax credits might very well be higher for people buying more expensive insurance, such as maybe having higher rates due to pre-existing conditions.


“How much higher” is all I need to know. There are only six plans of varying percent coverage that are the same everywhere. There are only three factors that then determine rates in health insurance premiums under the ACA: Age, geographic region and tobacco use. That’s it. If those currently insured under Obamacare were to have their premiums set by the “old” rate system, only not being able to reject, limit or cancel coverage, many more people than not would be paying more for their insurance as opposed to your singular example. Here’s a brief overview that might be of some help:

https://www.zanebenefits.com/blog/bid/317011/How-the-Affordable-Care-Act-ACA-Varies-by-State
 
“How much higher” is all I need to know. There are only six plans of varying percent coverage that are the same everywhere. There are only three factors that then determine rates in health insurance premiums under the ACA: Age, geographic region and tobacco use. That’s it. If those currently insured under Obamacare were to have their premiums set by the “old” rate system, only not being able to reject, limit or cancel coverage, many more people than not would be paying more for their insurance as opposed to your singular example. Here’s a brief overview that might be of some help:

https://www.zanebenefits.com/blog/bid/317011/How-the-Affordable-Care-Act-ACA-Varies-by-State

What your link doesn't show is 2017 premiums.
 
That's exact what I think of your post, "So what"?


The 2017 premiums do not matter. Whatever they are, they would be higher if rated under the "old" system as described, a point I already addressed. Hence "so what".
 
The 2017 premiums do not matter. Whatever they are, they would be higher if rated under the "old" system as described, a point I already addressed. Hence "so what".

No one really knows what premiums would be like with the old system vs. Obamacare. Obamacare's minimum benefits and same priced premiums to those with pre-existing conditions have caused Obamacare premiums to explode. And, it is a fallacy to say that all plans before Obamacare were junk bare bones policies. It's also rather stupid for Obamacare to charge higher prices to those who smoke but not to those with pre-existing conditions and I say all of this as a person who has pre-existing conditions.
 
“No one really knows what premiums would be like with the old system vs. Obamacare.”

If a health insurer were legally required to write a high-risk that would otherwise not write, they would, if legally allowed, write the risk at a higher premium than the average risk. That is why if today’s spread of risk were written under the “old” rate system would result in an average higher premium per insured. That is all I said and is factually correct. However, it also highly unlikely that many of today’s high-risk insured’s could afford those high-risk rates.

“Obamacare's minimum benefits and same priced premiums to those with pre-existing conditions have caused Obamacare premiums to explode.”

Of the six benefits plans that the ACA offers, one is what you can call a “bare bones” policy. But, not all are and those with pre-existing conditions can have any plan they wish without surcharge or restriction. However, I do agree high-risk, pre-existing condition insureds increased claim costs. Obviously, that’s what high-risk insureds cause. The reason that caused an increase in premiums, though, is that the Obama gambled and lost on what turned out to be not enough healthy people enrolled to pay into the health system to offset those claims costs. Ooops.

“It's also rather stupid for Obamacare to charge higher prices to those who smoke but not to those with pre-existing conditions…”

Why is it stupid? If you make pre-existing condition undeniable, then deny coverage by proxy through surcharges, the intent is being compromised. I don’t see the logic.

“…and I say all of this as a person who has pre-existing conditions.”

Does that make what you say more meaningful? If so, and if I have no pre-existing condition yet want coverage undeniable at no surcharge, does that make what I say just as meaningful, though diametrically opposed?
 
“No one really knows what premiums would be like with the old system vs. Obamacare.”

If a health insurer were legally required to write a high-risk that would otherwise not write, they would, if legally allowed, write the risk at a higher premium than the average risk. That is why if today’s spread of risk were written under the “old” rate system would result in an average higher premium per insured. That is all I said and is factually correct. However, it also highly unlikely that many of today’s high-risk insured’s could afford those high-risk rates.

“Obamacare's minimum benefits and same priced premiums to those with pre-existing conditions have caused Obamacare premiums to explode.”

Of the six benefits plans that the ACA offers, one is what you can call a “bare bones” policy. But, not all are and those with pre-existing conditions can have any plan they wish without surcharge or restriction. However, I do agree high-risk, pre-existing condition insureds increased claim costs. Obviously, that’s what high-risk insureds cause. The reason that caused an increase in premiums, though, is that the Obama gambled and lost on what turned out to be not enough healthy people enrolled to pay into the health system to offset those claims costs. Ooops.

“It's also rather stupid for Obamacare to charge higher prices to those who smoke but not to those with pre-existing conditions…”

Why is it stupid? If you make pre-existing condition undeniable, then deny coverage by proxy through surcharges, the intent is being compromised. I don’t see the logic.

“…and I say all of this as a person who has pre-existing conditions.”

Does that make what you say more meaningful? If so, and if I have no pre-existing condition yet want coverage undeniable at no surcharge, does that make what I say just as meaningful, though diametrically opposed?

You've got a lot of jigsaw puzzle pieces you are using there but you can't just use a hammer to make them fit.
 
You've got a lot of jigsaw puzzle pieces you are using there but you can't just use a hammer to make them fit.


I don't know how what you mean applies to my reply. I gave a specific reply to each part of what you said. Is there any one part of my reply you can refute or improve on, or agree with?
 
I don't know how what you mean applies to my reply. I gave a specific reply to each part of what you said. Is there any one part of my reply you can refute or improve on, or agree with?

You are throwing everything but the kitchen sink, and you want me to make sense out of it all?
 
You are throwing everything but the kitchen sink, and you want me to make sense out of it all?


You're using "limited capacity" as an excuse after I already gave you an option to pick and question whichever part you wish so as to reduce the elephant you perceive to one bite. That you should still be complaining of everything when I've given you an option of but one, of your choice, tells me you are playing a game of not only limited capacity but of lagging cognition. Are you saying there is no one single part of my reply in question you are able to handle? If you need clarity, tell me and I'll be happy to help. Maybe I'm not making myself clear enough for you.
 
The definition for infant mortality is a death occurring within the first year of life after live birth. Some 70% of these deaths occur within the first 28 days after birth.

What you are leaving out is the fact that countries vary greatly in how they measure a live birth. The U.S. considers any birth, full term or premie, where a single breath is taken a live birth. Many other countries only consider a birth to occur if the baby lives a day or more.

This greatly skews the data.
 
So when you get sick and your insurance company says they won't cover you because it was "Pre-existing" and just about anything can be made "pre-existing", you will be kicked into a "high risk" plan that you can't possibly afford? That's exactly like the widely hated old system and now that caps on insurers earnings are lifted they will be free to take even more of your premiums and charge you more to make it up. This is going to be a gold mine for the big insurers, give a nice discount to the young and healthy but keep most all of it because they just throw them off if the bastards still get sick. Also, the ACA had many cost controls on providers too so with them gone how are actual HC costs going to be reduced? If it is at all as you described, it will be a train wreck with million losing their HC and no end to rising costs. In fact costs will accelerate their climb.

Caps on insurer earnings lifted? People's premiums and deductibles were skyrocketing under Obamacare. Know why? Young people told Obamacare to go **** itself.
 
What you are leaving out is the fact that countries vary greatly in how they measure a live birth. The U.S. considers any birth, full term or premie, where a single breath is taken a live birth. Many other countries only consider a birth to occur if the baby lives a day or more.

This greatly skews the data.


What we are leaving out is even more. Who make’s the call on what constitutes that measure? Depending on the country, it can be one of several positions.
Muscle movement. There are many varying characteristics. We can only accept what we get from nations that report what they do. As it is, each nation does not necessarily get all the locals to report the information asked for. What you and I are discussing is normal in data collection, though perhaps of less certainty than average. Nonetheless, it is all we have to work with. Do you think such information in question is invalid and should be ignored? Do you have better data?
 
Caps on insurer earnings lifted? People's premiums and deductibles were skyrocketing under Obamacare. Know why? Young people told Obamacare to go **** itself.

That just means they did not follow the law and were irresponsible so they took the cheapest way out. Big surprise. That would have been remedied as the fines were going up. ANY HC plan that wants to insure ALL depends on contributions from ALL including the young and healthy if they are to keep costs down. What do you think would happen to the cost of company plans if no one under 40 was included in their plans? The deal is that healthcare is not like a lottery and wagering that you won't get sick is not acceptable behavior because if you do get sick or injured it unfairly puts the burden on others. These are Conservative ideas based on the need for personal responsibility yet some how you wave this "Golden rule" for this specific case. It is not only makes you look foolish but it paints you as a slave to your partisanship with no real rudder at all guiding you.
 
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That just means they did not follow the law and were irresponsible so they took the cheapest way out. Big surprise. That would have been remedied as the fines were going up. ANY HC plan that wants to insure ALL depends on contributions from ALL including the young and healthy if they are to keep costs down. What do you think would happen to the cost of company plans if no one under 40 was included in their plans? The deal is that healthcare is not like a lottery and wagering that you won't get sick is not acceptable behavior because if you do get sick or injured it unfairly puts the burden on others. These are Conservative ideas based on the need for personal responsibility yet some how you wave this "Golden rule" for this specific case. It is not only makes you look foolish but it paints you as a slave to your partisanship with no real rudder at all guiding you.

Hahahaa, irresponsible. :lamo The law is irresponsible. No one should be forced under the Constitution to buy a product they don't want.
 
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