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China Sends Aircraft Carrier Into Taiwan Strait

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Blue_State

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https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/10/world/asia/china-taiwan-strait-aircraft-carrier-trump.html?_r=0

HONG KONG — China sent its sole aircraft carrier into the Taiwan Strait on Wednesday morning, Taiwan officials said, a defiant move that signals China’s growing naval strength and may foreshadow an early foreign policy challenge for President-elect Donald J. Trump when he takes office in nine days.
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I think we are getting close to the time where we make a decision...stand or get out of the way.

I for one do not want to enter an armed conflict with China. Nor do I want them to play ship to ship chicken like what is happening in the Strait of Hormuz. And then again, I also don't want to abandon an ally. So here we are...tensions are growing...the government seems war-hawkish right now. Are we willing to stare down this aircraft carrier or allow it to intimidate our ally?
 
Blue_State said:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/10/world/asia/china-taiwan-strait-aircraft-carrier-trump.html?_r=0



I think we are getting close to the time where we make a decision...stand or get out of the way.

I for one do not want to enter an armed conflict with China. Nor do I want them to play ship to ship chicken like what is happening in the Strait of Hormuz. And then again, I also don't want to abandon an ally. So here we are...tensions are growing...the government seems war-hawkish right now. Are we willing to stare down this aircraft carrier or allow it to intimidate our ally?
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Sink it with a drone submarine?
 
Blue_State said:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/10/world/asia/china-taiwan-strait-aircraft-carrier-trump.html?_r=0



I think we are getting close to the time where we make a decision...stand or get out of the way.

I for one do not want to enter an armed conflict with China. Nor do I want them to play ship to ship chicken like what is happening in the Strait of Hormuz. And then again, I also don't want to abandon an ally. So here we are...tensions are growing...the government seems war-hawkish right now. Are we willing to stare down this aircraft carrier or allow it to intimidate our ally?
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Dont worry, Trump will fire a twitter barrage so intense that it will send those dastardly Chinese crawling back to Beijing with their tails tucked in between their legs.
 
Blue_State said:
I would say that is a vote for war.

Not that China's Navy or Air Force is in any condition to hurt us. On the ground they have more people.
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Yes, but PLA can't swim across the straight, so.....
 
Blue_State said:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/10/world/asia/china-taiwan-strait-aircraft-carrier-trump.html?_r=0



I think we are getting close to the time where we make a decision...stand or get out of the way.

I for one do not want to enter an armed conflict with China. Nor do I want them to play ship to ship chicken like what is happening in the Strait of Hormuz. And then again, I also don't want to abandon an ally. So here we are...tensions are growing...the government seems war-hawkish right now. Are we willing to stare down this aircraft carrier or allow it to intimidate our ally?
Click to expand...

Our current government and military are playing games with the Russians also. Not unusual with a new admin coming in but, the players are better armed this time around.
 
Draw a line and stick to it. Let them fire the first shots. I don't think they'll pull the trigger. But if they do ...
 
Beaudreaux said:
Draw a line and stick to it. Let them fire the first shots. I don't think they'll pull the trigger. But if they do ...
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I think that is one of the most important things we can do...especially with a new administration.
 
WCH said:
Our current government and military are playing games with the Russians also. Not unusual with a new admin coming in but, the players are better armed this time around.
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It's always good to keep in mind that Taiwan is 7-8,000 miles from our shores and is technically a part of China. China hasn't attacked anyone, but is showing a more capable military force in the region because it has more to lose now that it is a prosperous Nation of the World. It has to protect its' local interests. Russian ships in Philipine and Vietnamese ports are reflections of a changing dynamic in the region. Our hegemony is threatened and there are economic, military, political, and social cracks in our fabric. I'm not sure that the USA economy can be saved because of all the debt and unfunded liabilites. The Military and Intelligence seem to think we need a good war to save the economy or maintain the status quo of the USA's biggest Industry, the Military Industrial Corporate Complex (MIC). I think they're nuts.
 
PoS said:
Dont worry, Trump will fire a twitter barrage so intense that it will send those dastardly Chinese crawling back to Beijing with their tails tucked in between their legs.
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" China overrated"
 
WCH said:
I would bet China still holds a grudge against Japan.
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The Japanese killed at least 20 million in Manchuria. Gee, could that leave a grudge? Abe is rebuilding the Japanese military instead of the JDF, Japanese Defense Forces. Japan is an economic powerhouse and the USA has allowed them to write their own currency to the tune of trillions of yen to weaken the economy by devaluing the YEN. That's manipulation and Trump thinks the Chinese are mani;ulating currency. He needs to look a little closer to home. The USA wrote 7-8 trillion dollars of new currency and instead of that act devaluing the currency, the currency increased in value by 30%. On topic, I think that China would ignore the grudge and do business with Japan to their mutual benefit, same as Russia.
 
DaveFagan said:
It's always good to keep in mind that Taiwan is 7-8,000 miles from our shores and is technically a part of China. China hasn't attacked anyone, but is showing a more capable military force in the region because it has more to lose now that it is a prosperous Nation of the World. It has to protect its' local interests. Russian ships in Philipine and Vietnamese ports are reflections of a changing dynamic in the region. Our hegemony is threatened and there are economic, military, political, and social cracks in our fabric. I'm not sure that the USA economy can be saved because of all the debt and unfunded liabilites. The Military and Intelligence seem to think we need a good war to save the economy or maintain the status quo of the USA's biggest Industry, the Military Industrial Corporate Complex (MIC). I think they're nuts.
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Funny, I told my Wife this morning [who was bitching about her job] "Don't worry, we'll get into a war and your R&D job will be converted to DoD duties"

Not really that funny.
 
PoS said:
Dont worry, Trump will fire a twitter barrage so intense that it will send those dastardly Chinese crawling back to Beijing with their tails tucked in between their legs.
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It's Obama who allowed this vulnerability to open up, because there was no willingness to give adequate attention to China's growing threat to the region. Remember, if the US abandons Taiwan this will put Japan into a panic, because it will call into question America's commitment to the region.

Even now, we see Democrats only shrieking over Putin, while they totally give China a free pass with their comparative silence.

Even when China hacks the US, you don't really see Democrats make any issue out of it.
 
Blue_State said:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/10/world/asia/china-taiwan-strait-aircraft-carrier-trump.html?_r=0

I think we are getting close to the time where we make a decision...stand or get out of the way.

I for one do not want to enter an armed conflict with China. Nor do I want them to play ship to ship chicken like what is happening in the Strait of Hormuz. And then again, I also don't want to abandon an ally. So here we are...tensions are growing...the government seems war-hawkish right now. Are we willing to stare down this aircraft carrier or allow it to intimidate our ally?
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The straight adjoins their coast, too. Is this really a big deal? :shrug:
 
Blue_State said:
I would say that is a vote for war.

Not that China's Navy or Air Force is in any condition to hurt us. On the ground they have more people.
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Just say it was India or Vietnam. We wouldn't commit an act of war against them. They are friends!
 
joG said:
Just say it was India or Vietnam. We wouldn't commit an act of war against them. They are friends!
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Ya...friends have a funny thing about pretending to have the same interests. We have a lot of friends in that region...the Chinese don't seem to be on the list.
 
Blue_State said:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/10/world/asia/china-taiwan-strait-aircraft-carrier-trump.html?_r=0



I think we are getting close to the time where we make a decision...stand or get out of the way.

I for one do not want to enter an armed conflict with China. Nor do I want them to play ship to ship chicken like what is happening in the Strait of Hormuz. And then again, I also don't want to abandon an ally. So here we are...tensions are growing...the government seems war-hawkish right now. Are we willing to stare down this aircraft carrier or allow it to intimidate our ally?
Click to expand...

Just arm the Taiwanese to the teeth, including some of those really nasty modern diesel electric submarines, and serious ADA including ballistic missiles defense systems so the Chinese will be really uncomfortable sending their carrier or planes to threaten the Taiwanese. I would also break from the one China policy and declare Taiwan an independent sovereign nation and an ally and get them into SEATO.
 
PirateMk1 said:
Just arm the Taiwanese to the teeth, including some of those really nasty modern diesel electric submarines, and serious ADA including ballistic missiles defense systems so the Chinese will be really uncomfortable sending their carrier or planes to threaten the Taiwanese. I would also break from the one China policy and declare Taiwan an independent sovereign nation and an ally and get them into SEATO.
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I think we should have declared Taiwan an independent nation years ago. Can't agree more.

We do arm them, train them as well. But you are saying go all in for their defense. If we can find for a way where we don't pay for it...I am all in.
 
I think US Democrat politicians are secretly hoping that Japan will end up neutralized like Finland. They don't really give a crap about the balance of power in Asia, and only seem to obsess over Putin. If China's pet North Korea is building ICBMs to target the US mainland, the Democrats couldn't care less. They only want to talk about Crimea.
 
Blue_State said:
I would say that is a vote for war.

Not that China's Navy or Air Force is in any condition to hurt us. On the ground they have more people.
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Which means NOTHING in the face of high altitude stealth bombers. They could throw a 10,000,000 man army at us and they would get decimated having never even seen the weapons that killed them. We don't need tanks or rifles to kill them, all we need is big airplanes, flying way high with anti-detection tech coming out of their tailpipes, armed with a butt-load of anti-personnel munitions. China could march the biggest army ever known and it would end up as fertilizer.
 
faithful_servant said:
Which means NOTHING in the face of high altitude stealth bombers. They could throw a 10,000,000 man army at us and they would get decimated having never even seen the weapons that killed them. We don't need tanks or rifles to kill them, all we need is big airplanes, flying way high with anti-detection tech coming out of their tailpipes, armed with a butt-load of anti-personnel munitions. China could march the biggest army ever known and it would end up as fertilizer.
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I used to think that, but after having seen us bomb the bejeezus out of so many enemies the last couple decades, and them being only slowed down, not stopped, I can't think that anymore. I still see bombing as you describe as being extremely beneficial, but I go back to seeing it as a compliment to boots on the ground. Well, if you truly want to win.
 
faithful_servant said:
Which means NOTHING in the face of high altitude stealth bombers. They could throw a 10,000,000 man army at us and they would get decimated having never even seen the weapons that killed them. We don't need tanks or rifles to kill them, all we need is big airplanes, flying way high with anti-detection tech coming out of their tailpipes, armed with a butt-load of anti-personnel munitions. China could march the biggest army ever known and it would end up as fertilizer.
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I agree. That was the basis of my point, I just didn't complete the thought.
 
radcen said:
I used to think that, but after having seen us bomb the bejeezus out of so many enemies the last couple decades, and them being only slowed down, not stopped, I can't think that anymore. I still see bombing as you describe as being extremely beneficial, but I go back to seeing it as a compliment to boots on the ground. Well, if you truly want to win.
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"Apples and oranges" With China, you're talking about a massive human wave type attack. With what we've been faced wit in the ME, it's been small groups of fighters mixed in with civilian populations. A human wave attack would just mean a lot of dead Chinese soldiers. China knows this though, so I doubt that it would ever happen unless China decided that having a lot of unmarried, dissatisfied young men hanging around was a problem and decided to "thin the herd" with a war.
 
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