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Vaccine skeptic Robert Kennedy Jr. says Trump asked him to lead commission on ‘vaccin

Re: Vaccine skeptic Robert Kennedy Jr. says Trump asked him to lead commission on ‘va

JANFU said:
Big pharma when a new drug passes testing and is authorized for the market has a record that sucks with little to no requirement to track reactions. More harm from those drugs than vaccines.
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Very much agreed.

What bothers me us the blind acceptance in dafety.

Thatvsaid... kids should be tested and vaccinated whenever possible.
 
Re: Vaccine skeptic Robert Kennedy Jr. says Trump asked him to lead commission on ‘va

Bodhisattva said:
Then why did four doctors (at least) in our case not report it? Ill take my experience and research in this matter over your assumptions any day...
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From what I've seen here, you've done no thorough research at all. I've been the one posting verified data from credible sources on a consistent basis in here, not you. All you have is your own personal experience (which I have no way to verify since it is not documented), and flawed assumptions based on statistics that you don't understand.

Thanks, but I'll stick with the facts and evidence.
 
Re: Vaccine skeptic Robert Kennedy Jr. says Trump asked him to lead commission on ‘va

I grew up as a military dependent. Back in the sixties they considered Alaska as 'over-seas'. I was innoculated for everything on the planet. Shots in my butt every day for two weeks.

The military has no definition of anti-vaxxer.
 
Re: Vaccine skeptic Robert Kennedy Jr. says Trump asked him to lead commission on ‘va

Bodhisattva said:
Very much agreed.

What bothers me us the blind acceptance in dafety.

Thatvsaid... kids should be tested and vaccinated whenever possible.
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Very few would be exempted based upon medical conditions.
 
Re: Vaccine skeptic Robert Kennedy Jr. says Trump asked him to lead commission on ‘va

TheGoverness said:
From what I've seen here, you've done no thorough research at all. I've been the one posting verified data from credible sources on a consistent basis in here, not you. All you have is your own personal experience (which I have no way to verify since it is not documented), and flawed assumptions based on statistics that you don't understand.

Thanks, but I'll stick with the facts and evidence.
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Not to me you haven't...

I've lived it. You haven't.

I've been to the doctors... in the emergency rooms... in the hospital... in ICU... talked with VAERS... talked with experts and doctors... researched for untold hours preparing letters and documents and affidavits... I won't post personal information or documents... you believe me or you don't... just let me know so I can put you in one category or the other...
 
Re: Vaccine skeptic Robert Kennedy Jr. says Trump asked him to lead commission on ‘va

Bodhisattva said:
Not to me you haven't...

I've lived it. You haven't.

I've been to the doctors... in the emergency rooms... in the hospital... in ICU... talked with VAERS... talked with experts and doctors... researched for untold hours preparing letters and documents and affidavits... I won't post personal information or documents... you believe me or you don't... just let me know so I can put you in one category or the other...
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Your personal experience does nothing to refute the fact that vaccines are extremely safe, and the benefits far outweigh the negatives.

I bet even the doctors you met told you this already.

And there is plenty of research to back that fact up. Deny it if you want to, it doesn't matter.
 
Re: Vaccine skeptic Robert Kennedy Jr. says Trump asked him to lead commission on ‘va

JANFU said:
Big pharma when a new drug passes testing and is authorized for the market has a record that sucks with little to no requirement to track reactions. More harm from those drugs than vaccines.
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They do have a somewhat bad track record, but there is a pretty stringent requirement to track reactions. Its called Phase 4 of the clinical trial and its years of tracking post marketing reports of ADRs. Whether they choose to act on that information when it finds something potentially negative is another matter.
 
Re: Vaccine skeptic Robert Kennedy Jr. says Trump asked him to lead commission on ‘va

vash1012 said:
They do have a somewhat bad track record, but there is a pretty stringent requirement to track reactions. Its called Phase 4 of the clinical trial and its years of tracking post marketing reports of ADRs. Whether they choose to act on that information when it finds something potentially negative is another matter.
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Then they should not have the choice. It should be mandatory.
 
Re: Vaccine skeptic Robert Kennedy Jr. says Trump asked him to lead commission on ‘va

JANFU said:
Then they should not have the choice. It should be mandatory.
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It can be mandatory. There's just a procedure the FDA has to go through. Usually issuing a request for a voluntary withdrawal and then a more stringent process for rescinding approval if they don't comply. It just takes a while for it to be clear its necessary. You need years of data to show a correlation in most cases, but there's a pretty wide range of opinion on how much time is enough. The pharma companies have just been slower than they should be in choosing to act on a trend that's concerning (ie: Vioxx) in a couple of cases.
 
Re: Vaccine skeptic Robert Kennedy Jr. says Trump asked him to lead commission on ‘va

vash1012 said:
It can be mandatory. There's just a procedure the FDA has to go through. Usually issuing a request for a voluntary withdrawal and then a more stringent process for rescinding approval if they don't comply. It just takes a while for it to be clear its necessary. You need years of data to show a correlation in most cases, but there's a pretty wide range of opinion on how much time is enough. The pharma companies have just been slower than they should be in choosing to act on a trend that's concerning (ie: Vioxx) in a couple of cases.
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IMHO it needs to be stronger- Look at oxycontin
 
Re: Vaccine skeptic Robert Kennedy Jr. says Trump asked him to lead commission on ‘va

Bodhisattva said:
The under reporting of Vaccine side effects - Vaccine Side Effects
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That site is owned by Trevor Gunn, a homeopath. He's not a doctor and he is an anti-vaxxer. Enough said.

https://trevorgunn.com/
Vaccine-Side-Effects.com WHOIS, DNS, & Domain Info - DomainTools




"Hello, good evening and welcome to the second of my alternative view 3 blog posts. The subject of this post? Trevor Gunn and his talk on vaccination: the facts…

From what I can discern from google Trevor Gunn is a homeopath who questions the germ theory of disease. One who questions the safety and effectiveness of vaccines. The following is from here and describes a talk that seems similar to that which Mr Gunn will be giving.

“Far more significant than an imperfect drug, severe side-effects or ineffective intervention, is the impact of a conventional medical approach to illness on our perception of what we are capable of as human beings. By investigating not only which ideas and approaches have dominated modern health care, but also why, we shall be investigating the psychological, philosophical and commercial pressures that have helped to shape modern medicine and continue to shape us as human beings.”

Reading between the lines this seems to be standard anti-vax nonsense, indeed this seems backed up by Mr Gunns correspondence with the WHO. In which he questions whether the symptoms of measles are “wholly negative to the individual” and then goes on at length to describe the immuno-response to measles at great length. It seems almost churlish, almost but not quite because essentially what Gunn is advocating is the “measles isn’t harmful” canard, to point out that yes, while the bodies natural immuno-reponse to an infection or microbe isn’t wholly negative it’s often preferable not to have to rely on the bodies immuno-response in the first place. Particularly if you are an immuno-compromised individual that contracts measles or one of the 197,000 people who yearly die from the disease."

https://andyourelectronmicroscope.wordpress.com/2009/11/06/trevor-gunn-vaccination-the-facts/
 
Re: Vaccine skeptic Robert Kennedy Jr. says Trump asked him to lead commission on ‘va

JANFU said:
IMHO it needs to be stronger- Look at oxycontin
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What about Oxycontin? It's being inappropriately prescribed and is being abused frequently. That is not something the FDA really would rescind approval for.
 
Re: Vaccine skeptic Robert Kennedy Jr. says Trump asked him to lead commission on ‘va

He is also a crook.

A fraudster claimed housing benefit to rent his own houses to a made-up tenant.

Homeopath Trevor Gunn bought two houses in Chapel Mews, Hove, then drew up fake tenancy agreements and claimed benefits while pretending to rent the properties from a woman called Shana Mathai.

Self-employed homeopath Gunn made the false claims for a period of seven years, from 2003 to 2011, raking in more than £113,000 in illegal benefits.

Gunn, who regularly lectures on homeopathy, pathology and immunisation on TV, radio and in newspapers, also claimed working tax credits while working as a self employed homeopath.
Hove landlord invented tenant in benefit scam (From The Argus)

Hove man in £100K Brighton council benefit fraud jailed - BBC News

Hove Landlord Invented Tenant In Benefit Scam - House prices and the economy - House Price Crash forum
 
Re: Vaccine skeptic Robert Kennedy Jr. says Trump asked him to lead commission on ‘va

devildavid said:
And this is not questioning the CDC? Maybe they are proponents of vaccination because all the scientific studies have shown the efficacy of them and the minuscule amount of risk with them. We don't need to listen to those who have no scientific basis for opposing them. So if there is a large amount of medical scientists questioning vaccines please bring them on. But don't bring in celebrity's, non-scientific medical people, conspiracy theorists, etc. just because they have a feeling or anecdotal evidence with no credible evidence to back them. Or those who just don't trust scientific studies because they see political influence in everything. We really don't need to listen to every point of view on every issue. When I go to the doctor, if I want a second opinion I go to another doctor. I don't go to a celebrity or non-medical person for advice. If I do any research, I go to reliable medical websites, not a conspiracy theorist's blog.

The CDC's job is to protect us from anything harmful to our health. That is what their ulterior motive is. Everyone should be kissing their feet for the work they have done to fight ebola and the zika virus. The good news is that Trump has exempted public health care workers from a planned hiring freeze. He is showing a trace of brain and good for him.

More work lies ahead to fight Zika, other threats: CDC chief | Fox News
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Questioning anybody, however expert and however noble their intentions, as to whether all that is known or what is yet unknown is included in material presented is simply good investigation, even good science.
 
****ing ****.

Vaccines are a public health issue. There are a LOT of vaccines and they are not all nor always safe. What we do know is that the collateral damages of all the vaccines we recommend are far exceeded by the damages of the horrible diseases that they immunize society against.

Vaccination is a serious public health issue. Every person who is not vaccinated is a potential breeder for some of the most horrific plagues that humanity has ever known. Tens of thousands of dead every year, many more disfigured, blind, or crippled.

Do i think we should force everyone to be vaccinated? No. But if you, say, use public schools, the attending children should be vaccinated. It's not okay to selfishly refuse to accept the minuscule risk of the vaccine and, in doing so, jeopardize the health of all other Americans.
 
Re: Vaccine skeptic Robert Kennedy Jr. says Trump asked him to lead commission on ‘va

tres borrachos said:
So the CDC research, all of it through the years, is garbage because you've decided their pro-vaccination stance means it has no validity.

Then don't have your kids vaccinated if it worries you so much. Me, I'll trust the CDC. They know what they're talking about, as do all of the other scientists and doctors who've weighed in. RFK Jr, Donald Trump and Jenny McCarthy aren't the kinds of people I trust on this issue.
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I have not said it was garbage, and your regular dishonesty in misrepresenting what I have said is growing quite tiresome. I prefer to discuss serious issues with people who don't become angry if a different point of view is presented and who don't make it personal. I will continue to ask questions when I think those questions are appropriate and am quite happy for you to believe whatever it is you believe.

Do have a pleasant afternoon.
 
Re: Vaccine skeptic Robert Kennedy Jr. says Trump asked him to lead commission on ‘va

AlbqOwl said:
I have not said it was garbage, and your regular dishonesty in misrepresenting what I have said is growing quite tiresome. I prefer to discuss serious issues with people who don't become angry if a different point of view is presented and who don't make it personal. I will continue to ask questions when I think those questions are appropriate and am quite happy for you to believe whatever it is you believe.

Do have a pleasant afternoon.
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You're saying you don't trust the CDC report and you've yet to say why except that you're convinced they had their own end result in mind and crafted the reports to satisfy their desired result. That's fraud and misrepresentation if that's what they did, not to mention a danger to the health and welfare of people. So yes, you're slamming them by saying such things. If you have evidence of them intentionally withholding information that would lead to a different result, I encourage you to share it. Otherwise I will trust, as most everyone else does, the findings of their research as well as the many other research projects that showed there is no link between vaccinations and autism, in spite of what RFK Jr., Trump and Playboy bunny Jenny McCarthy say.

Enjoy your day as well!
 
Re: Vaccine skeptic Robert Kennedy Jr. says Trump asked him to lead commission on ‘va

AlbqOwl said:
Questioning anybody, however expert and however noble their intentions, as to whether all that is known or what is yet unknown is included in material presented is simply good investigation, even good science.
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The problem with the unknown is that we don't know how much we don't know. So we can only make judgments based upon what we do know. When somebody is more knowledgable on a topic than us, if they demonstrate their position is based on evidence, accepting their hypothesis is also good science. In fact, scientists do that all the time. Science is a collaborative pursuit. Even if (!!) we have no idea how much we don't know on that topic. It's why accepting Newtons laws of motion was a good idea, even though it turned out there was a hell of a lot we didn't know, and Newtons laws turned out to be wrong (or just approximations). It's why accepting research on vaccines, even if there are things we don't know about the human body, is also a good idea.

I think this matter escapes you on a number of issues, Albq.
 
Re: Vaccine skeptic Robert Kennedy Jr. says Trump asked him to lead commission on ‘va

MaggieD said:
Pfft. Eight more years!! Eight more years!

I hate who I've become. Just so posters know. But I've never in my life seen so many lies, so much disrespect for a POTUS. Those of you who are quick to point out Obama? That wasn't me. And I honestly don't remember Obama's election bringing on media lies, Hollywood videos, Streepies, etc., etc. and, at least in those three examples, that would be correct. ALL BECAUSE THE DEMS FIELDED AN ASSHOLE FOR POTUS.

We've gone crazy, folks. Stark raving mad. Fake news. Fake Tweets. Fake newspaper articles. Fake everything. God help us.
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Never in your life? The disrespect for the POTUS was on full display when S. Carolina's tea party Rep. Joe Wilson jumped up during the middle of Obama's 2009 State of the Union speech and screamed...YOU LIE!!!

The Tea Party formed almost immediately as backlash after Obama was elected . I think they are largely responsible the disrespect and hate, not just for the POTUS, but for the entire federal 'gubbamint.' They don't think big gubbamint can do anything right...so they elect people to make sure it doesn't.
 
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Re: Vaccine skeptic Robert Kennedy Jr. says Trump asked him to lead commission on ‘va

tres borrachos said:
You're saying you don't trust the CDC report and you've yet to say why except that you're convinced they had their own end result in mind and crafted the reports to satisfy their desired result. That's fraud and misrepresentation if that's what they did, not to mention a danger to the health and welfare of people. So yes, you're slamming them by saying such things. If you have evidence of them intentionally withholding information that would lead to a different result, I encourage you to share it. Otherwise I will trust, as most everyone else does, the findings of their research as well as the many other research projects that showed there is no link between vaccinations and autism, in spite of what RFK Jr., Trump and Playboy bunny Jenny McCarthy say.

Enjoy your day as well!
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And once again you misrepresent what I've said. I did not say, infer, or suggest that I didn't trust the CDC report. I did describe what a proper scientific process is for finding answers to serious questions. But carry on.
 
Re: Vaccine skeptic Robert Kennedy Jr. says Trump asked him to lead commission on ‘va

Nilly said:
The problem with the unknown is that we don't know how much we don't know. So we can only make judgments based upon what we do know. When somebody is more knowledgable on a topic than us, if they demonstrate their position is based on evidence, accepting their hypothesis is also good science. In fact, scientists do that all the time. Science is a collaborative pursuit. Even if (!!) we have no idea how much we don't know on that topic. It's why accepting Newtons laws of motion was a good idea, even though it turned out there was a hell of a lot we didn't know, and Newtons laws turned out to be wrong (or just approximations). It's why accepting research on vaccines, even if there are things we don't know about the human body, is also a good idea.

I think this matter escapes you on a number of issues, Albq.
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You were making an EXCELLENT argument and I was hugely impressed right up to your last line. And there you blew it. I swear it must be in the water or something. . . :) Nevertheless. . .

But we don't KNOW what causes autism do we? The CDC has taken a very firm position that vaccines are not a factor in that and I figure despite the very good and competent people they have in that organization, they are not now looking for a reason to show that they are wrong.

And other equally competent and concerned people are not yet convinced that the CDC is right. I believe an open scientific mind wants to look at any additional evidence that might be out there and give them a chance to disprove the CDC diagnosis. If they can't do it, we haven't lost a thing by allowing them to try. If they do, then it is good that we know the truth or that we need to keep looking for it.
 
Re: Vaccine skeptic Robert Kennedy Jr. says Trump asked him to lead commission on ‘va

AlbqOwl said:
You were making an EXCELLENT argument and I was hugely impressed right up to your last line. And there you blew it. I swear it must be in the water or something. . . :) Nevertheless. . .

But we don't KNOW what causes autism do we? The CDC has taken a very firm position that vaccines are not a factor in that and I figure despite the very good and competent people they have in that organization, they are not now looking for a reason to show that they are wrong.

And other equally competent and concerned people are not yet convinced that the CDC is right. I believe an open scientific mind wants to look at any additional evidence that might be out there and give them a chance to disprove the CDC diagnosis. If they can't do it, we haven't lost a thing by allowing them to try. If they do, then it is good that we know the truth or that we need to keep looking for it.
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Can you link to research carried out by these competent and concerned people?
 
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