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Thread: Kansas lawmakers jump-start debate over repealing tax break[W:262]

  1. #11
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    Re: Brownback Tax Cuts a bust...Kansas State Legislature now fixing to repeal

    Quote Originally Posted by Incisor View Post
    Not really. Back when they were first passed, Brownback said that the tax cuts would be "a shot of adrenaline" into the Kansas economy. I'm no doctor, but even I know that adrenaline kicks in right away and doesn't take 7 years to start working. Fact is what went wrong was the premise of cutting taxes to stimulate growth in the first place.

    Now that we know it doesn't work based on the failure of Kansas, we should avoid the policy like the plague.




    No, there aren't any empirical studies or research that shows that. If it did work, then Kansas wouldn't be suffering as it is...nor would the Bush economy have been as terrible as it was. Remember, the first four years of the Bush Tax Cuts lost 811,000 private sector jobs, produced the worst growth since the Great Depression (after a decade of some of the best growth), and erased a surplus causing record-breaking deficits.

    The problem Conservatives have is that their policies work in theory, but never in practice.
    1. You see, that is what I meant. Reducing taxes is not a homogeneous affair. There are taxes with different impacts. It would be necessary to know more.

    2. You should check that out. Even a short Google search will bring light to the subject. But I recall seeing a World Bank or IMF meta study recently, if you want to take a shortcut and search their libraries.

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    Re: Brownback Tax Cuts a bust...Kansas State Legislature now fixing to repeal

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    1. You see, that is what I meant. Reducing taxes is not a homogeneous affair. There are taxes with different impacts. It would be necessary to know more.
    We are speaking specifically about the income tax breaks Brownback passed in Kansas as a blueprint for the rest of the nation.


    2. You should check that out. Even a short Google search will bring light to the subject. But I recall seeing a World Bank or IMF meta study recently, if you want to take a shortcut and search their libraries.
    I'm not doing your work for you.

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    Re: Brownback Tax Cuts a bust...Kansas State Legislature now fixing to repeal

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Person View Post
    Kansas is a real world experiment in the idiocy of supply-side tax policies. They torpedoed their revenue with just such a policy. Once again, the things supply-siders said would happen failed to happen.

    What is the motivation to deny reality?

    It's as if the sky turned blood red, we all see that it is blood red, but you pipe up to say that "studies" say it should be blue so we should act like it is blue, despite it actually being blood red. What sense would that make?





    Is there some unstated hope that if conservatives get this to happen federally and in enough states, governments will be broke enough that they'll have to enact the kind of massive termination/agency slashing that makes up the wet dreams of Paul Ryan's ilk? (ie, in the same way that Obamacare was supposedly a sly maneuver to break health care and force a move to single-payer?

    It has to be something like that, because there is absolutely no rational basis to blame Kansas's debacle on something other than the tax cuts. Whether or not the cuts "helped the economy", they didn't help it anywhere near to the point where it would have to be helped for the old supply-side lie to prove true.

    That lie, again, being that we can just keep slashing taxes and each time it'll produce so much growth that government revenue will remain neutral or even rise despite the lower rates.
    Reducing taxes and spending increases efficiency, if the correct taxes are cut and the government reduces spending on non public goods and such expenditures, where the tax and spending multipliers are net negative.

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    Re: Brownback Tax Cuts a bust...Kansas State Legislature now fixing to repeal

    Quote Originally Posted by Incisor View Post
    Obviously, everyone saw this coming. Sad thing is that Brownback is one of the many trickle-down supporters who is advising Trump. If he wants to do for the rest of the country what was done in Kansas, we're in big trouble.

    From the AP by way of the Miami Herald:

    Kansas lawmakers jump-start debate over repealing tax break
    The only thing wrong with the Kansas tax cuts was that they weren't backed by spending cuts.
    Our nation has not always lived up to its ideals, yet those ideals have never ceased to guide us. They expose our flaws, and lead us to mend them. We are the beneficiaries of the work of the generations before us and it is each generation's responsibility to continue that work. - Laura Bush

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    Re: Brownback Tax Cuts a bust...Kansas State Legislature now fixing to repeal

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Person View Post
    Kansas is a real world experiment in the idiocy of supply-side tax policies. They torpedoed their revenue with just such a policy. Once again, the things supply-siders said would happen failed to happen.

    What is the motivation to deny reality?

    It's as if the sky turned blood red, we all see that it is blood red, but you pipe up to say that "studies" say it should be blue so we should act like it is blue, despite it actually being blood red. What sense would that make?





    Is there some unstated hope that if conservatives get this to happen federally and in enough states, governments will be broke enough that they'll have to enact the kind of massive termination/agency slashing that makes up the wet dreams of Paul Ryan's ilk? (ie, in the same way that Obamacare was supposedly a sly maneuver to break health care and force a move to single-payer?

    It has to be something like that, because there is absolutely no rational basis to blame Kansas's debacle on something other than the tax cuts. Whether or not the cuts "helped the economy", they didn't help it anywhere near to the point where it would have to be helped for the old supply-side lie to prove true.

    That lie, again, being that we can just keep slashing taxes and each time it'll produce so much growth that government revenue will remain neutral or even rise despite the lower rates.

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    Reducing taxes and spending increases efficiency, if the correct taxes are cut and the government reduces spending on non public goods and such expenditures, where the tax and spending multipliers are net negative.


    Kansas destroyed its revenue stream.

    You can quote theory all you like, but this and prior federal attempts at supply side tax policy have simply failed to do what that theory said it would do.

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    Re: Brownback Tax Cuts a bust...Kansas State Legislature now fixing to repeal

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Person View Post
    Kansas is a real world experiment in the idiocy of supply-side tax policies. They torpedoed their revenue with just such a policy. Once again, the things supply-siders said would happen failed to happen.

    What is the motivation to deny reality?

    It's as if the sky turned blood red, we all see that it is blood red, but you pipe up to say that "studies" say it should be blue so we should act like it is blue, despite it actually being blood red. What sense would that make?





    Is there some unstated hope that if conservatives get this to happen federally and in enough states, governments will be broke enough that they'll have to enact the kind of massive termination/agency slashing that makes up the wet dreams of Paul Ryan's ilk? (ie, in the same way that Obamacare was supposedly a sly maneuver to break health care and force a move to single-payer?

    It has to be something like that, because there is absolutely no rational basis to blame Kansas's debacle on something other than the tax cuts. Whether or not the cuts "helped the economy", they didn't help it anywhere near to the point where it would have to be helped for the old supply-side lie to prove true.

    That lie, again, being that we can just keep slashing taxes and each time it'll produce so much growth that government revenue will remain neutral or even rise despite the lower rates.
    The right realized that they cannot really adopt an explicit "let people starve to death" policy, but they needed to retain the goal of stealing from the poor to give to the rich, so they approached it from a budgetary standpoint by using tax cuts and their resulting deficits to force spending cuts.

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    Re: Brownback Tax Cuts a bust...Kansas State Legislature now fixing to repeal

    Quote Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
    The only thing wrong with the Kansas tax cuts was that they weren't backed by spending cuts.
    That's just not true, otherwise they would have made those cuts. Don't you wonder why all these republicans force the government to take a pay cut without being prepared to deal with the consequences? It's because they LIE to get the tax cut passed. Hold them accountable for their LIE, please.

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    Re: Brownback Tax Cuts a bust...Kansas State Legislature now fixing to repeal

    Quote Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
    The only thing wrong with the Kansas tax cuts was that they weren't backed by spending cuts.
    So it takes spending cuts in order for tax cuts to work? Brownback said the tax cuts would be "a shot of adrenaline". What adrenaline takes more than 5 years to kick in?

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    Re: Brownback Tax Cuts a bust...Kansas State Legislature now fixing to repeal

    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    The right realized that they cannot really adopt an explicit "let people starve to death" policy, but they needed to retain the goal of stealing from the poor to give to the rich, so they approached it from a budgetary standpoint by using tax cuts and their resulting deficits to force spending cuts.
    Exactly...and those spending cuts are almost always operational, which causes the programs to fail, which then gives Conservatives an excuse to sell them off to private interests for profit.

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    Re: Brownback Tax Cuts a bust...Kansas State Legislature now fixing to repeal

    Quote Originally Posted by Incisor View Post
    Obviously, everyone saw this coming. Sad thing is that Brownback is one of the many trickle-down supporters who is advising Trump. If he wants to do for the rest of the country what was done in Kansas, we're in big trouble.

    From the AP by way of the Miami Herald:

    Kansas lawmakers jump-start debate over repealing tax break
    Thats a shortfall in projections. According to the actual numbers revenue is up.

    2014 5.6bn
    2015 5.9bn
    2016 6.3bn

    Kansas Division of the Budget

    Taxes are higher now than before the tax cuts in 2012, when revenue was 6.1bn

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