Kansas lawmakers jump-start debate over repealing tax break[W:262]

Incisor · Jan 16, 2017

Re: Brownback Tax Cuts a bust...Kansas State Legislature now fixing to repeal

Anthony60 said:
Nope, untrue.

Then why are we spending $5B to give welfare to Walmart's workers, if what they pay doesn't matter.

They pay the market rate for that job.

No, they don't. Because the "market rate" for the job is being kept artificially low with welfare. Raising their pay reduces the need to spend welfare. Not sure why you are content spending $5B a year so Walmart can make $14B. That's not a win for you and me.

Nobody is giving Walmart anything, I challenge you to show that they are. Obviously, you can't show it because it's not happening.

If you are going to play ignorant and pretend that welfare for Walmart workers isn't ultimately corporate welfare, then you are in denial friend. The $5B that taxpayers spend in order to provide benefits to Walmart's employees is $5B Walmart doesn't have to spend on wages and can keep for itself. How's that good for the economy?

Doesn't have anything to do with WalMart though.

is Walmart not employing these people?

WalMart gets nothing from the government. They just hire people and pay them. You haven't been able to show anything different.

I have showed you, you just refuse to accept it because you are married to your dogma. If Walmart didn't get government support to provide welfare, then what would happen?

So, you would be for WalMart not having to give healthcare benefits to their employees anymore, and instead have the government pick up the tab?

First of all, employer-provided care was just a way 60-70 years ago for companies to not have to pay higher wages. Secondly, the only function that insurance serves is to administer payment of premiums you've already paid to your provider. For this "service", insurance companies take as much as 20% for themselves. Also, because there are multiple payors, drug companies, hospitals, and medical providers can play insurers off one another to increase cost (which we see with drug companies, in particular). A single payer moves the bargaining power to the patients, so it can use its leverage to negotiate for cheaper rates and fees. Operationally, a single payer system would be no different than what we have right now except for the fact that the overhead would be far less (Medicare's overhead is lower than all private insurers), no co-pays, no co-insurance, no deductibles. Just a flat payroll tax of around 6% and that's it. No more Obamacare. No more Medicaid. No more S-Chip. Just Medicare and that's it. Remember, all we're talking about is how your health care gets paid...nothing more. How it gets paid is between the payor and the provider. You have no part in that transaction. You've already paid your premiums, they're taking a 20% fee to make sure your doctor gets paid from the pool of premiums you've already paid into. How does that role affect your care? It doesn't. It's purely administrative.

Incisor · Jan 16, 2017

Re: Brownback Tax Cuts a bust...Kansas State Legislature now fixing to repeal

Conservative said:
Don't really care as i understand the person who controls my income earning capability is ME.

You like to think that because it sounds good, but that's not true.

Conservative · Jan 16, 2017

Re: Brownback Tax Cuts a bust...Kansas State Legislature now fixing to repeal

Incisor said:
You like to think that because it sounds good, but that's not true.

So you are an expert on my financial situation and work history? You really are a legend in your own mind. Yes, I controlled my income earning potential and never once blamed someone else for what I made or thought I should make. I was looking for a job when I found the one I had for 35 years and every year I made myself more marketable. If ever the liabilities outweighed the assets I would have moved one. You seem to have that entitlement mentality that someone else owes you what you think you are worth.

Anthony60 · Jan 16, 2017

Re: Brownback Tax Cuts a bust...Kansas State Legislature now fixing to repeal

Incisor said:
No, they don't. Because the "market rate" for the job is being kept artificially low with welfare.

LOL. You must be kidding! So the government is keeping the wages at WalMart low? So it's the government's fault! How do they even do that? You really have to take a step back and look at what you are saying, it's quite comical.

Raising their pay reduces the need to spend welfare. Not sure why you are content spending $5B a year so Walmart can make $14B.

If that were true, then if these people were no longer eligible for welfare, WalMart would be forced to raise their payroll by $5 billion. Sorry, not happening. There is no force involved that would cause that to happen. Blown apart for like the fifth time. That would have no effect on WalMart, they have nothing to do with it. But, that is the liberal talking point against WalMart. It's on all the lib sites, and you better not disagree with them.

I have showed you, you just refuse to accept it because you are married to your dogma. If Walmart didn't get government support to provide welfare, then what would happen?

They don't get any support, so nothing would happen. I could see WalMart giving some raises to help these people out, like they have been doing. As I have shown before, WalMart has been raising the starting wage well above what the law requires, so no one is being paid minimum at WalMart. Obviously, they are not effected by whatever the government is doing with welfare, they are working ahead of that independently.

First of all, employer-provided care was just a way 60-70 years ago for companies to not have to pay higher wages. Secondly, the only function that insurance serves is to administer payment of premiums you've already paid to your provider.

Clearly, you don't know how insurance works.
I'm good with regular insurance instead. I go to the doctor when I need to. I don't like those government systems where you have to wait for months for approval, they rate you and decide if you are even worth wasting the resources on. Like Obama said, you're 80 years old, you just get a pain pill, you can't have that expensive operation that your real insurance company would have paid for. Sorry, no thanks.

For this "service", insurance companies take as much as 20% for themselves. Also, because there are multiple payors, drug companies, hospitals, and medical providers can play insurers off one another to increase cost (which we see with drug companies, in particular). A single payer moves the bargaining power to the patients, so it can use its leverage to negotiate for cheaper rates and fees.

That's a funny one. The government is going to "negotiate" the best price, because, you know, they need to make a profit and have to be as efficient as possible. What? No? Uh oh, we'd be in trouble there. Private insurance companies do that.

Operationally, a single payer system would be no different than what we have right now except for the fact that the overhead would be far less (Medicare's overhead is lower than all private insurers), no co-pays, no co-insurance, no deductibles. Just a flat payroll tax of around 6% and that's it. No more Obamacare. No more Medicaid. No more S-Chip. Just Medicare and that's it. Remember, all we're talking about is how your health care gets paid...nothing more. How it gets paid is between the payor and the provider. You have no part in that transaction. You've already paid your premiums, they're taking a 20% fee to make sure your doctor gets paid from the pool of premiums you've already paid into. How does that role affect your care? It doesn't. It's purely administrative.

Okay, so what you are actually describing in not insurance. Insurance doesn't work that way. What you are describing is a tremendous government wealth transfer program. It doesn't sound to good to me, and no thanks, I'd rather not be a part of it (me and tens of millions of others). So, that's not going to work. Oh, and let me throw this in for good measure... we have a Constitution, it doesn't give the government the power to do any of that.

Incisor · Jan 20, 2017

Re: Brownback Tax Cuts a bust...Kansas State Legislature now fixing to repeal

Conservative said:
So you are an expert on my financial situation and work history?

I don't care about your exaggerated or fake experience which you lean on to make yourself credible because your argument isn't. I am tired of having to let you and others like you abrogate responsibility for your position by using fake personal history, or wildly unverifiable exaggerated claims in order to make a point. You guys lost that credibility the moment you shoved that fat, old Julie Boonstra in front of a camera to cry crocodile tears about something that wasn't even true.

So seriously, if you cannot argue with facts...and if you think your own personal history -which no one can verify one way or the other- is fact, you're mistaken. It's bias.

<alt>doxygen · Jan 20, 2017

Re: Brownback Tax Cuts a bust...Kansas State Legislature now fixing to repeal

Incisor said:
I don't care about your exaggerated or fake experience which you lean on to make yourself credible because your argument isn't. I am tired of having to let you and others like you abrogate responsibility for your position by using fake personal history, or wildly unverifiable exaggerated claims in order to make a point. You guys lost that credibility the moment you shoved that fat, old Julie Boonstra in front of a camera to cry crocodile tears about something that wasn't even true.

So seriously, if you cannot argue with facts...and if you think your own personal history -which no one can verify one way or the other- is fact, you're mistaken. It's bias.

I had to look Boonstra up since I couldn't remember the details. More Koch funded nonsense:
Forbes Welcome

Incisor · Jan 20, 2017

Re: Brownback Tax Cuts a bust...Kansas State Legislature now fixing to repeal

Anthony60 said:
LOL. You must be kidding! So the government is keeping the wages at WalMart low? So it's the government's fault! How do they even do that? You really have to take a step back and look at what you are saying, it's quite comical.

What's sad is that you obviously understand what I'm saying but refuse to acknowledge it because doing so pulls at the thread in your entire circular argument. Walmart knows that the government won't let people starve to death or not get medical care. So what Walmart does is spend as little on labor as they can, with the knowledge that the government will be able to supplement those workers. That's why welfare has a work requirement. It's not a path to get people off welfare, it's a path to help companies increase their profits by not paying their workers more. So you understand how the wage is being kept artificially low in that regard? Or are you going to continue to play obtuse?

Incisor · Jan 20, 2017

Re: Brownback Tax Cuts a bust...Kansas State Legislature now fixing to repeal

Anthony60 said:
If that were true, then if these people were no longer eligible for welfare, WalMart would be forced to raise their payroll by $5 billion. Sorry, not happening.

And why not??? Of course they won't do so voluntarily, and I'm glad you are now starting to understand how wages are kept artificially low. You seem content to hand Walmart $5B in what amounts to corporate welfare so Walmart doesn't have to spend $5B of their $14B in profits to pay their employees a wage that doesn't require welfare to supplement it. I think you understand this, but are playing dumb because you have no real argument to make defending the current status quo. In which case...seriously???????

Incisor · Jan 20, 2017

Re: Brownback Tax Cuts a bust...Kansas State Legislature now fixing to repeal

Anthony60 said:
They don't get any support, so nothing would happen

OMG, are you schizophrenic? Because you just said they did right here:

If that were true, then if these people were no longer eligible for welfare, WalMart would be forced to raise their payroll by $5 billion

I mean, dude...that was from the previous sentence! This is the circular reasoning I am talking about. I think you intentionally do it because you don't want to have to admit you're wrong because of your own stupid, selfish pride. Party-before-country. Always.

You said "that ain't happening". Why? Why wouldn't it happen? Because Walmart doesn't want to do it. They have a choice and they are choosing to be welfare leeches because they're greedy and contemptuous of their employees and this country.

As I have shown before, WalMart has been raising the starting wage well above what the law requires

Too little, too late. Even with the modest wage increases, most workers continue to qualify for welfare benefits. So it's really just optics...they say "oh, we're starting to pay our workers more, so lavish praise on us for doing so!" Presumably because they share the same delicate sensitives and ego that Conservatives have...consistently needing to be coddled and babied so you won't throw a tantrum. So they can go to the press with a positive story about how they're not as bad a welfare leech as they were, even though they're still welfare leeches. And to that, I would say ummm...no...because the amount you "raised" their pay still qualifies them for the welfare benefits Conservatives set when they reformed welfare in 1996. So what was accomplished? Nothing other than the Walton Family and Conservatives feeling better about themselves. Completely self-serving. But you're party-before-country. Always.

Incisor · Jan 20, 2017

Re: Brownback Tax Cuts a bust...Kansas State Legislature now fixing to repeal

Anthony60 said:
Clearly, you don't know how insurance works.

No, you are the one who does not understand what insurance is or how it works. All an insurance company does is collect premiums from those enrollees, then administers payment of that premium to your provider for reimbursement of your case. THAT IS ALL THEY DO. For this service, they take as much as 20 cents of every premium dollar you pay for themselves. Now is it worth 20% to have someone in Hartford press a button to send your money to your doctor? I don't think so. Not when Medicare does the same thing for much, much less, and since Medicare is the standard used by insurance companies anyway. You Conservatives have no idea how insurance works or even what it is because you're ignorant. You think it ties into your care, but it doesn't. It only serves the function of administrating payment for your care. That's it. That's all they do. How is it not parasitic and pointless? What does tying a profit motive to the administration of premiums do to enhance or improve the care your doctor gives you? Nothing. Absolutely nothing whatsoever.

I'm good with regular insurance instead. I go to the doctor when I need to. I don't like those government systems where you have to wait for months for approval, they rate you and decide if you are even worth wasting the resources on.

Well that's a lie and that doesn't happen. And what do you think insurance companies do right now anyway???? They do the same thing, determining whether or not they want to waste their resources on your care. You don't even know what insurance is but you think you're good with it? Oy vey. BTW - According to Gallup, all forms of government insurance have higher patient satisfaction ratings than all forms of private insurance:

Incisor · Jan 20, 2017

Re: Brownback Tax Cuts a bust...Kansas State Legislature now fixing to repeal

Anthony60 said:
That's a funny one. The government is going to "negotiate" the best price, because, you know, they need to make a profit and have to be as efficient as possible. What? No? Uh oh, we'd be in trouble there. Private insurance companies do that.

It's about the single entity that has the bargaining power because it's the only payor in the equation. So that single entity can use its leverage to play drug companies off one another to get lower prices for the enrollees, as opposed to now when it's a handful of drug companies and multiple payors. Have you ever negotiated anything in your life? Even Trump was talking about how Medicare should be allowed to use its leverage as the largest payor in the marketplace to bargain for better prescription drug prices. Of course, he said that about 6 months ago so who the hell knows what he actually believes. But the point remains.

BTW - who were the ones that didn't want to let Medicare have that ability? Conservatives when they passed Medicare Part-D.

Incisor · Jan 20, 2017

Re: Brownback Tax Cuts a bust...Kansas State Legislature now fixing to repeal

Anthony60 said:
Okay, so what you are actually describing in not insurance. Insurance doesn't work that way. What you are describing is a tremendous government wealth transfer program. It doesn't sound to good to me, and no thanks, I'd rather not be a part of it (me and tens of millions of others). So, that's not going to work. Oh, and let me throw this in for good measure... we have a Constitution, it doesn't give the government the power to do any of that.

Sigh...that is precisely what insurance is and what it's function is. You have absolutely no concept of that because you don't even understand insurance yourself! You've had ample opportunity to test your knowledge on this topic, but you can't. All you say is no, that's not what it is, without revealing what you think it is.

Fact is, health insurance is where people pool their premiums and then doctors get reimbursed from that pool. The function of an insurance company is to administer that reimbursement from the pool. That's it. Nothing more.

I think you're not really playing in the majors with your arguments in this debate. You don't seem to understand what insurance is. If you did, you would have posted what it was if I was somehow wrong about it. But I'm not. You just contradict me for the sake of contradicting me, and because you don't want to admit to the reality of how extraneous private insurance actually is to health care.

So that's why you fall back on generalized, deflective arguments about the Constitution (something else you don't understand). What a wuss.

Incisor · Jan 20, 2017

Re: Brownback Tax Cuts a bust...Kansas State Legislature now fixing to repeal

Porkuloss said:
I had to look Boonstra up since I couldn't remember the details. More Koch funded nonsense:
Forbes Welcome

Yup. And it's not just Obamacare Conservatives lied about. They lied about debt's effect on the economy too in order to push through an austerity agenda in order to lower taxes and transfer wealth to the top.

Rogoff/Reinhart's Growth in the Time of Debt was the lie Conservatives used to push their agenda through...capitalizing on a manufactured debt crisis they caused to go after the social programs they've always hated. Disgusting people, in my opinion.

In fact, you name the Conservative position and chances are, that position is informed by lies.

Anthony60 · Jan 20, 2017

Re: Brownback Tax Cuts a bust...Kansas State Legislature now fixing to repeal

Incisor said:
OMG, are you schizophrenic? Because you just said they did right here:

I mean, dude...that was from the previous sentence! This is the circular reasoning I am talking about. I think you intentionally do it because you don't want to have to admit you're wrong because of your own stupid, selfish pride. Party-before-country. Always.

I see you have now taken to twisting and misrepresenting what I said to make a false point. To me, that's a surrender, admitting that you are wrong and have to resort to misleading. Thanks, I accept your admittance of defeat.

Incisor · Jan 20, 2017

Re: Brownback Tax Cuts a bust...Kansas State Legislature now fixing to repeal

Anthony60 said:
I see you have now taken to twisting and misrepresenting what I said to make a false point. To me, that's a surrender, admitting that you are wrong and have to resort to misleading. Thanks, I accept your admittance of defeat.

LOL! Nope. How dare I quote the exact words you used to make you look uninformed. LOL! What a baby.

What false point did I make? Did you not say the words you said?? LOL!

Anthony60 · Jan 20, 2017

Re: Brownback Tax Cuts a bust...Kansas State Legislature now fixing to repeal

Incisor said:
LOL! Nope. How dare I quote the exact words you used to make you look uninformed. LOL! What a baby.

What false point did I make? Did you not say the words you said?? LOL!

Go away and play now. I'm not reposting facts that you are not able to comprehend. I'm busy watching TRUMP kick OBAMA'S ass out of office! WOO HOO!

JasperL · Jan 20, 2017

Re: Brownback Tax Cuts a bust...Kansas State Legislature now fixing to repeal

Anthony60 said:
They don't get any support, so nothing would happen. I could see WalMart giving some raises to help these people out, like they have been doing. As I have shown before, WalMart has been raising the starting wage well above what the law requires, so no one is being paid minimum at WalMart. Obviously, they are not effected by whatever the government is doing with welfare, they are working ahead of that independently.

That just cannot be true. Whether they'd have to pay a 'living' wage or not is essentially an empirical question, but if some worker's child is sick, even dying, at home for lack of medical care, it affects Walmart. Now that worker/child is probably on Medicaid/SCHIP, and can get treatment. If not, like I asked before, do you really think there is no additional pressure on Walmart (and they're just a stand-in for "low wage, meager benefits employers everywhere") to raise wages and/or provide health insurance? There is no additional pressure to unionize and force the issue? There are no protests at the stores, boycotts, PR campaigns with stories of dead children, hungry, living in cars?

Clearly, you don't know how insurance works.
I'm good with regular insurance instead. I go to the doctor when I need to. I don't like those government systems where you have to wait for months for approval, they rate you and decide if you are even worth wasting the resources on. Like Obama said, you're 80 years old, you just get a pain pill, you can't have that expensive operation that your real insurance company would have paid for. Sorry, no thanks.

1) Must not have had any surgery or significant procedure lately. It requires approval from the insurance company, and the cheaper the policy the more procedures/claims the insurer HAS to deny. That's what is a little frustrating about the discussions sometimes. The GOP plan is to allow less comprehensive coverage, and/or allow significant yearly/lifetime limits, like we had before, and to remove protection for pre-existing conditions, so the death panels will have to INCREASE the number of denied claims - no surgery for you! - or just quit paying altogether in case of a serious illness or accident. Stuff like what you say above just makes an honest discussion of the tough choices impossible.

2) The pain pill comment was a poor attempt at discussing the tough choices. The idea, which is needed, is to use an evidence and data driven approach to determine what medical procedures add actual value. I've cited a study before that showed two towns in Texas, similar demographics, one spent DOUBLE the other on Medicare, similar outcomes. The difficulty is figuring out why that happened, and if any of that extra spending did anything for health outcomes.

3) Of course when you're 80 you'll be on a "government system," like all seniors in the U.S. are today..... The argument is Medicare is unsustainable at the current cost - $trillions! Well, how do we make it sustainable paying for any procedure at any time at the asking price by the hospital or physician?

That's a funny one. The government is going to "negotiate" the best price, because, you know, they need to make a profit and have to be as efficient as possible. What? No? Uh oh, we'd be in trouble there. Private insurance companies do that.

Walmart does it, why not the government?

Okay, so what you are actually describing in not insurance. Insurance doesn't work that way. What you are describing is a tremendous government wealth transfer program. It doesn't sound to good to me, and no thanks, I'd rather not be a part of it (me and tens of millions of others). So, that's not going to work. Oh, and let me throw this in for good measure... we have a Constitution, it doesn't give the government the power to do any of that.

Other than the no copays etc. it is exactly describing insurance, which is nothing more than a pooling of resources from which claims are paid, with the premiums determined by the yearly claims. The bigger the pool, the better health insurance (really any insurance) works, which is why large employers negotiate much better terms than smaller ones.

Furthermore the admin costs are a significant driver of our healthcare costs. Don't know if you saw it, but a story I linked earlier indicated Duke Hospital (been treated there, great hospital, very efficient!) had 900 beds, 1,300 billing clerks! So there's that 15-20% admin on the insurance side, but also a significant amount of that 80-85% they pay in "health" claims doesn't go to healthcare providers, or materials or supplies, but to an army of billing/support staff.

Anthony60 · Jan 20, 2017

Re: Brownback Tax Cuts a bust...Kansas State Legislature now fixing to repeal

Incisor said:
LOL! Nope. How dare I quote the exact words you used to make you look uninformed. LOL! What a baby.

What false point did I make? Did you not say the words you said?? LOL!

And, just to expose your lie, here's the FULL quote...

If that were true, then if these people were no longer eligible for welfare, WalMart would be forced to raise their payroll by $5 billion. Sorry, not happening.

Where you left off the bold part and tried to make as if I thought the WOULD have to raise their payroll by $5 billion. Outright lie.

Incisor · Jan 20, 2017

Re: Brownback Tax Cuts a bust...Kansas State Legislature now fixing to repeal

Anthony60 said:
Go away and play now. I'm not reposting facts that you are not able to comprehend. I'm busy watching TRUMP kick OBAMA'S ass out of office! WOO HOO!

Great! So now you can be held to account for the f-ckups...that is, until you realize they're f-ckups in which case suddenly Trump isn't a Conservative anymore and you disassociate yourself from him...like you did with Bush the Dumber.

Incisor · Jan 20, 2017

Re: Brownback Tax Cuts a bust...Kansas State Legislature now fixing to repeal

Anthony60 said:
And, just to expose your lie, here's the FULL quote...Where you left off the bold part and tried to make as if I thought the WOULD have to raise their payroll by $5 billion. Outright lie.

And why wouldn't they? How is Walmart going to keep employees if they workers are, you know, dying?

Visbek · Jan 20, 2017

Re: Brownback Tax Cuts a bust...Kansas State Legislature now fixing to repeal

JC Callender said:
I think the point of cutting income taxes is to boost the economy by giving people more money to spend, and in turn, creating more sales tax revenue. The sales tax revenue history for Kansas:

Yes, I know it's been a few days.

Most of those changes in sales tax revenues are due to inflation, improvement in employment (which are national) and improvements in wages (again, national). Some are linked to increases in sales tax, from 6.15% in 2013 to 6.5% in 2015.

Those increases are also nowhere near enough to offset the revenue losses. E.g. despite $190m in higher sales taxes for 2016, the state still had a $375 million shortfall.

The tax cuts did not spark tons of growth, or businesses moving into Kansas. Unemployment did not fall faster than neighboring states. Growth did not increase more than neighboring states. Some private measures (e.g. moving businesses) indicate that people are leaving Kansas fairly rapidly.

The tax cuts created a loophole where LLCs pay almost no corporate taxes, which led to 300,000 existing Kansan businesses to change their structure to LLCs.

While I don't have all the figures in front of me, it appears that Kansas has lost well over $1 billion in tax revenues during their tax experiment. There should really be no question that its attempt to increase tax revenues by cutting tax rates does not work.

Conservative · Jan 20, 2017

Re: Brownback Tax Cuts a bust...Kansas State Legislature now fixing to repeal

Incisor said:
I don't care about your exaggerated or fake experience which you lean on to make yourself credible because your argument isn't. I am tired of having to let you and others like you abrogate responsibility for your position by using fake personal history, or wildly unverifiable exaggerated claims in order to make a point. You guys lost that credibility the moment you shoved that fat, old Julie Boonstra in front of a camera to cry crocodile tears about something that wasn't even true.

So seriously, if you cannot argue with facts...and if you think your own personal history -which no one can verify one way or the other- is fact, you're mistaken. It's bias.

Unlike you and your fake knowledge and expertise on every issue. You are an incredibly naïve, gullible, and poorly informed individual who thinks too highly of yourself having no basic private sector experience or leadership skills. I argue with facts, you ignore them. BLS.gov, BEA.gov, Treasury as well as leadership experience trumps your book smart education which is going to fail you in the long term

Incisor · Jan 20, 2017

Re: Brownback Tax Cuts a bust...Kansas State Legislature now fixing to repeal

Conservative said:
Unlike you and your fake knowledge and expertise on every issue.

I don't proclaim to be an expert on these subjects. You do. You lean on your unverifiable personal experience to lend your argument credibility it doesn't otherwise have. It's a pattern with you people that really started with Joe (not his first name) the Plumber (not even his job). Most Conservatives like you go online and invent fanciful backstories about yourselves. It's like you play the lamest version of D&D ever.

I argue with facts, you ignore them.

Vomiting up a couple links does not make your argument valid. Especially when you have no idea about the info you are posting. In your particular case, you deliberately mislead or omit pieces of information that otherwise would undermine your case. You're not the only Conservative who does that. Weren't you the one who posted BLS data claiming Bush created jobs but left the important caveat out that the jobs he created were government ones???

That's the level of dishonesty I've come to expect from you, and why I don't really respect you, or your beliefs, at all.

Conservative · Jan 20, 2017

Re: Brownback Tax Cuts a bust...Kansas State Legislature now fixing to repeal

Incisor said:
I don't proclaim to be an expert on these subjects. You do. You lean on your unverifiable personal experience to lend your argument credibility it doesn't otherwise have. It's a pattern with you people that really started with Joe (not his first name) the Plumber (not even his job). Most Conservatives like you go online and invent fanciful backstories about yourselves. It's like you play the lamest version of D&D ever.

Vomiting up a couple links does not make your argument valid. Especially when you have no idea about the info you are posting. In your particular case, you deliberately mislead or omit pieces of information that otherwise would undermine your case. You're not the only Conservative who does that. Weren't you the one who posted BLS data claiming Bush created jobs but left the important caveat out that the jobs he created were government ones???

That's the level of dishonesty I've come to expect from you, and why I don't really respect you, or your beliefs, at all.

Yes, I will put my resume and experience as well as ability to do DD up against yours any day. You are nothing more than a partisan leftwing liberal ou of touch with reality. Vomiting facts seems to be a problem for you as you offer nothing but distorted out of context information from biased, partisan sources that you want to believe. I did indeed post BLS data showing Bush created 9 million jobs from January 2001 to December 2007 but unlike you who buys rhetoric you ignored the data. You simply have no concept of BLS data or even where the data comes from. Your level of dishonesty and partisanship has reached record levels. Looks like there is no need to pursue this any further so it is back on Ignore for you

Incisor · Jan 20, 2017

Re: Brownback Tax Cuts a bust...Kansas State Legislature now fixing to repeal

Conservative said:
Yes, I will put my resume and experience as well as ability to do DD up against yours any day.

And you would lose. It wouldn't be fair to you if we stacked our credentials side-by-side, so lets instead stack our facts side-by-side. You don't like doing that mostly because you don't really have a lot of facts that can support your position...really any at all. That's why you devolve the conversation into one on theory and philosophy. Because dealing with reality is just too difficult. This quote sums up Conservatism quite well:

"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs."

Kansas lawmakers jump-start debate over repealing tax break[W:262]

Incisor

Incisor

Conservative

Anthony60

Incisor

<alt>doxygen

"I want MY WALL!"

Incisor

Incisor

Incisor

Incisor

Incisor

Incisor

Incisor

Anthony60

Incisor

Anthony60

JasperL

Anthony60

Incisor

Incisor

Visbek

Stuck In The Circle

Conservative

Incisor

Conservative

Incisor