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Lindsey Graham: "Throw Rocks at Russia"

ajn678 said:
Graham is obsessed with bombing everyone. He's ****ing crazy.
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And he wonders why he flunked out in the prez primaries last year. This is one of the reasons.
 
annata said:
I don't see how "throwing rocks" at Putin isn't an escalation - if not a new Cold War; especially when added to the already extant sanctions and the European Reassurance Initiative.
What more lands does Putin want? Transnista? He had valid reasons for Crimea -even Georgia.
If we had not expanded NATO after promising not to -would he be doing this?
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Russia's got a point: The U.S. broke a NATO promise - LA Times

In early February 1990, U.S. leaders made the Soviets an offer. According to transcripts of meetings in Moscow on Feb. 9, then-Secretary of State James Baker suggested that in exchange for cooperation on Germany, U.S. could make “iron-clad guarantees” that NATO would not expand “one inch eastward.” Less than a week later, Soviet President Mikhail Gorbachev agreed to begin reunification talks. No formal deal was struck, but from all the evidence, the quid pro quo was clear: Gorbachev acceded to Germany’s western alignment and the U.S. would limit NATO’s expansion.

It’s therefore not surprising that Russia was incensed when Poland, Hungary, the Czech Republic, the Baltic states and others were ushered into NATO membership starting in the mid-1990s
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The escalation was defined under the Gerasimov Doctrine and thus executed as a nonlinear war as well as a military land grab and in Europe. Support of Assad wagering war on his people was almost as bad on geopolitical terms but worse by his participation in crimes against humanity that make Milosovic look the dilettante.

Someone threw stones at Putin? My, my. You are one cool cookie.
 
Gonzo Rodeo said:
What do you suggest we do about it?
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It's amazing.

Conservatives are such lying pieces of trash.

We are told for 8 years that Obama is a failure because he's unable to even say who our enemies are when fighting Islamic extremism then they don't give a flying **** when the president elect plays buddy buddy with the foreign leader that just hacked one of our political parties in an attempt to affect US elections.

My suggestion? Trump act like a leader and a president and call Russia out. Not start a war but acknowledge whats going on, approve of sanctions as required and look in to other private covert acts that we can do if we feel we can do them safely etc. No one wants a war here, but the conservative base right now is acting like a bunch of ******s.

And think of how stupid Trump is right now. He's calling out our intelligence agencies and saying it's impossible to link hacking to a country. Now what are we supposed to do the next time North Korea or China hacks the US government? Trump can't argue that we know who it is, because he's already said it's impossible. He has set us all up for failure on this topic for the next 4-8 years. And his moronic supporters don't even realize how poorly he is handling this.
 
joG said:
The escalation was defined under the Gerasimov Doctrine and thus executed as a nonlinear war as well as a military land grab and in Europe. Support of Assad wagering war on his people was almost as bad on geopolitical terms but worse by his participation in crimes against humanity that make Milosovic look the dilettante.

Someone threw stones at Putin? My, my. You are one cool cookie.
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you'd have a point on Assad except for the entire gruesomeness of the Syrian Civil war.
al-Nusra (old name) did the public executions and heart eating worthy of ISIS.

Russia routinely bombs hospitals there - we did too in Kunduz ,Afgh -so for sheer quantity i'd agree - Russia is 'more brutal'
but nobody in Syria has clean hands.

I also agree on the Gerasimov Doctrine ( the Little Green Men) but again if we hadn't been pushing NATO and meddling in Uk elections
would it come to that?

Cookies ( or cupcakes for Victoria Nuland -State Dept) for thought. Here she is in Independence Square Kyiv.. why?

1018624898.jpg
 
Lindsey Graham is an idiot has been with no pull with the people.

IGNORE HIM
 
McCain and Graham are both rabid anti-Trump idiots!
Every country spies on other countries. That is the normal thing.
Can Russia be trusted as a friend... No! But we don't need to be in another damn cold war with them
because Crooked Hillary lost the election! We all know if Hillary won this Russia story would not be
happening. It would be 7/24 coverage of breaking the glass ceiling. The coronation of Queen Hillary!


McCain and Graham shut your pie holes! You are not relevant anymore.
 
Cardinal said:
I think the point is that we sat back and allowed a hostile foreign government to steer the outcome of our Democratic process and we're not going to do anything about it.
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Nope, that didn't happen.
 
Cardinal said:
...he said with blind hope.
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Blind hope? No, just the facts. What effected the elections was corruption in the DNC and their rhetoric which turned off voters.
 
Fishking said:
Blind hope? No, just the facts. What effected the elections was corruption in the DNC and their rhetoric which turned off voters.
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Just the facts if your sole source of information is Julian Assange.
 
annata said:
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Just what are the war hawks wanting?
Graham and McCain just got back from Estonia -at the just concluded meeting with Clapper
McCain mumbled ( really -he's so darn old he mumbles) something about "And Estonia knows"..,,

anyways..what should we do? more sanctions? -crippling the Russian economy doesn't deter Putin, and drives him closer to China.
More military build up to ( which we just DID that! starts this year https://www.defense.gov/News/Articl...n-reassurance-initiative-shifts-to-deterrence)

so what "rocks" are we supposed to use now? Do we want more Cold War 2.0? 3.0?
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Infinity War don't support itself!
 
Cardinal said:
One absolute minimal requirement: not pretending that Russia is our friend, even if you reaped some short term political benefit out of the deal.

It's easy enough to suggest we increase the security of our websites, but the much larger problem was our attitudes that allowed Russia to use our institutions against us. This includes our lax attitudes regarding personal security habits (which I personally learned from) as well as being much more discriminating with the news we consume. I think most of us learned from the former, but the state of the latter is in about as bad a condition as we can probably ever get. And the fact that we're so politically divided that a large enough number of our population would befriend a hostile international adversary just because they helped to install a candidate we like suggests such a hopelessness for our country's future I'm not really sure what to say about that.
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Just to be clear, these weren't our websites--as in, public or governmental websites. These were of private individuals or private organizations. No need to exaggerate beyond the facts.
 
Cardinal said:
I think the point is that we sat back and allowed a hostile foreign government to steer the outcome of our Democratic process and we're not going to do anything about it.
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sadly they learned it from us. the only thing you can do is buy Exxon Mobile and wait for Trump to lift the sanctions.
 
AliHajiSheik said:
Just to be clear, these weren't our websites--as in, public or governmental websites. These were of private individuals or private organizations. No need to exaggerate beyond the facts.
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Meaningless and utterly arbitrary distinction. But if that somehow makes it better that a hostile foreign nation steered the outcome of our election, whatever helps you sleep better at night, I guess.

Vern said:
sadly they learned it from us. the only thing you can do is buy Exxon Mobile and wait for Trump to lift the sanctions.
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Generally speaking, when it comes to light that a hostile foreign government is directly influencing the outcome of our election, the idea is not to praise them because it happens to result in a favorable short term political benefit.
 
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Cardinal said:
...he said with blind hope.
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:shrug:

Chart the exact steps by which the election was "steered" into a Trump victory by the Russians. You claimed it was, and you're saying that Fishking saying it didn't happen is "blind hope," so you must think it was.

Show exactly how.
 
Cardinal said:
Just the facts if your sole source of information is Julian Assange.
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Huh? Was the validity of the information challenged as false?
 
Fishking said:
Huh? Was the validity of the information challenged as false?
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So your sole source of information is Julian Assange, a man who's gone slowly insane in a small room for the last five years with nothing to occupy himself but an internet connection and his personal hatred of Hillary Clinton. Compared to the consensus of the entire intelligence community that certainly seems like a legit choice.
 
Cardinal said:
So your sole source of information is Julian Assange, a man who's gone slowly insane in a small room for the last five years with nothing to occupy himself but an internet connection and his personal hatred of Hillary Clinton. Compared to the consensus of the entire intelligence community that certainly seems like a legit choice.
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"We said so" does not cut it here.....No proof a guilt means we move on.

Maybe the Intel services can figure out a way to get this done right.

So long as they do it wrong tough cookies for them.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
"We said so" does not cut it here.....No proof a guilt means we move on.

Maybe the Intel services can figure out a way to get this done right.

So long as they do it wrong tough cookies for them.
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But Assange's say-so does cut it for you here. One man and his slowly disintegrating sanity, an internet connection and his personal hatred of Hillary Clinton. Interesting.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
"We said so" does not cut it here.....No proof a guilt means we move on.

Maybe the Intel services can figure out a way to get this done right.

So long as they do it wrong tough cookies for them.
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The classified report is finished and likely will be given to Obama on Thursday. Obama ordered it completed before he leaves office on Jan. 20 to ensure a full record is available, aides have said.

The full House and the full Senate will be briefed on a classified version of the review next week, Clapper said. After those briefings, a declassified version will be made public, he said.

link...​
 
Cardinal said:
So your sole source of information is Julian Assange, a man who's gone slowly insane in a small room for the last five years with nothing to occupy himself but an internet connection and his personal hatred of Hillary Clinton. Compared to the consensus of the entire intelligence community that certainly seems like a legit choice.
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You should read what he said for comprehension.

Was the information released in the leaks challenged as false?

Explain exactly how the election was steered by the Russians. G'head.
 
poweRob said:
The classified report is finished and likely will be given to Obama on Thursday. Obama ordered it completed before he leaves office on Jan. 20 to ensure a full record is available, aides have said.

The full House and the full Senate will be briefed on a classified version of the review next week, Clapper said. After those briefings, a declassified version will be made public, he said.

link...​
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So after Trump looks at the evidence and best arguement the genuiuses can come up with he will decide.

What Trump says is my opinion on the matter as well.

I trust PATRIOT TRUMP.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
So after Trump looks at the evidence and best arguement the genuiuses can come up with he will decide.

What Trump says is my opinion on the matter as well.

I trust PATRIOT TRUMP.
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You trust trump, assange and putin over the senate, your current president and all of our US Intelligence agencies. That's not patriotic in the least. You might as well move to russia where your real patriotism lies.
 
Cardinal said:
So your sole source of information is Julian Assange, a man who's gone slowly insane in a small room for the last five years with nothing to occupy himself but an internet connection and his personal hatred of Hillary Clinton. Compared to the consensus of the entire intelligence community that certainly seems like a legit choice.
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I don't think you're picking up what I'm putting down. Russia didn't force the DNC and the Hillary campaign to be corrupt. Russia didn't force the DNC to back the worst candidate of all time. Russia didn't force Hillary not to campaign in Wisconsin and Michigan.

This is why Hillary lost, not Russia.
 
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