Scuttled Ford plant has Mexico fearing more under Trump

Erod · Jan 4, 2017

MEXICO CITY (AP) -- Ford Motor Co.'s cancellation of plans to build a $1.6 billion auto manufacturing plant in San Luis Potosi has sounded alarms across Mexico.Even as the country is being rocked by rowdy nationwide protests against a Jan. 1 gasoline price hike, the Ford news led the front pages of Mexico's most influential newspapers Wednesday, and they tied the development directly to President-elect Donald Trump.

"Trump leaves Mexico without 3,600 jobs," read the headline on El Universal. "Ford's braking jolts the peso," said Reforma, referring to the Mexican currency's nearly 1 percent slump following the news.

"The jobs created in Mexico have contributed to maintaining manufacturing jobs in the United States which otherwise would have disappeared in the face of Asian competition," the Mexico Economy Department said.

The Mexican peso slid again Wednesday, with the Bank of Mexico's 48-hour interbank exchange rate for the currency weakening from 21.05 to the U.S. dollar to 21.52 at the close.

Tell me again this is all meaningless posturing.

reinoe · Jan 4, 2017

Erod said:
News from The Associated Press

Tell me again this is all meaningless posturing.

This is fantastic news. Donald Trump should financially cripple Mexico for sending their murderers and rapists into this country and we need a wall so that those people can stay in the bed they've made instead of trying to come here.

brothern · Jan 5, 2017

Erod said:
Tell me again this is all meaningless posturing.

It's not meaningless. However you're misinterpreting the story.

Mexicans care as much about Donald Trump as you care about President Peña Nieto. Which I am assuming for you is "not much." Your average Jose in Jalisco probably thinks Trump is reckless and is a nut, but Jose won't care much beyond that.

What Jose's actually upset about and what he up in arms about is President Peña Nieto and his government's competencies. Right now Peña Nieto has the lowest Presidential approval rating in polling history. He's screwed up the war on the Sinaloa Cartel, the Iguala kidnapping happened under his watch, he's failed to deliver on his promise to address corruption among the police & local officials, the economy is sluggish and the state-owned gas company (a monopoly) just raised its prices.

Certainly Mexicans think Trump is going to be difficult, but by no means are they afraid of Trump.

Erod · Jan 5, 2017

brothern said:
It's not meaningless. However you're misinterpreting the story.

Mexicans care as much about Donald Trump as you care about President Peña Nieto. Which I am assuming for you is "not much." Your average Jose in Jalisco probably thinks Trump is reckless and is a nut, but Jose won't care much beyond that.

What Jose's actually upset about and what he up in arms about is President Peña Nieto and his government's competencies. Right now Peña Nieto has the lowest Presidential approval rating in polling history. He's screwed up the war on the Sinaloa Cartel, the Iguala kidnapping happened under his watch, he's failed to deliver on his promise to address corruption among the police & local officials, the economy is sluggish and the state-owned gas company (a monopoly) just raised its prices.

Certainly Mexicans think Trump is going to be difficult, but by no means are they afraid of Trump.

The point is, folks keep calling these decisions companies are making to stay in the US meaningless and non-impactful. They don't give Trump an ounce of credit because they consider these superficial decisions.

Mexico doesn't think so apparently. They're worried that this could become a trend.

AlbqOwl · Jan 5, 2017

reinoe said:
This is fantastic news. Donald Trump should financially cripple Mexico for sending their murderers and rapists into this country and we need a wall so that those people can stay in the bed they've made instead of trying to come here.

Well realistically, the fewer jobs in Mexico there are, the more attractive American jobs become. But Mexico should be creating those jobs in Mexico instead of looking to the United States to create them for them. When Mexico establishes manufacturing plants that employ American workers here as Japan does, then they would have reason to complain when we don't reciprocate. Mexico already encourages their poor to come here because they benefit hugely from all the U.S. money that is then shipped home to families still in Mexico--by some estimates up to $25 billion per year.

Trump has never specifically stated exactly how he was going to get Mexico to pay for that wall. But taking a Ford manufacturing plant away from them is a really good start.

reinoe · Jan 5, 2017

brothern said:
Certainly Mexicans think Trump is going to be difficult, but by no means are they afraid of Trump.

And Mexicans have no reason to fear Trump unless they start harboring terrorists. Americans have more to fear from Mexico seeing as how they're emptying their prisons by dumping their criminals into our country.

CanadaJohn · Jan 5, 2017

This is interesting news, and certainly it is indicative of what an active and involved leader can achieve when he/she uses the bully pulpit in a constructive fashion. It's also indicative of what happens when that same political leadership has a tinge of danger attached to it and isn't known for setting red lines and then wiping them out. It's partly why President Obama was such a failure in this regard - no one believed there'd ever be consequences to simply ignoring him.

The more interesting part, to me, is what the Trump posture will be towards business taxation and regulation going forward. Businesses operate based on bottom line calculations, not political ones. It's why many American multinationals relocated outside the US without any worry about political fallout - such political fallout never seemed to affect their bottom lines. It's pretty easy for Ford, today, to put a hold on investments in Mexico - such holds can be lifted in 6 months, a year, or so, when Ford sees what business operations in the US will involve and what the tax and regulatory climate will entail. If, even considering Trump's talk of tariffs, the cost of doing business is cheaper for Ford with a Mexican plant then that Mexican plant will be built. Ford has customers all over the world, not just in the US, so they're going to have plants all over the world as well. As will all other automakers.

Where the rubber will hit the road is if Trump tries to impose such tariffs and then the American car buyer is hit with a 30% or 40% increase in the cost of their new Fusion. The American consumer tends to be totally different from the American worker/taxpayer even when they're the same person. It's why WalMart is always busy pushing Chinese and other Asian goods - they're cheap and serviceable - that's all the consumer wants. Pretty soon, if the American consumer starts bending the ear of their local Senator or Representative, such tariffs will be in jeopardy.

Let's wait and see what a Trump administration can accomplish, if it wants to, in reducing the tax and regulatory burdens on business going forward - then, you'll really have a story because doing business within US borders will become more economically attractive.

americanwoman · Jan 5, 2017

AlbqOwl said:
Well realistically, the fewer jobs in Mexico there are, the more attractive American jobs become. But Mexico should be creating those jobs in Mexico instead of looking to the United States to create them for them. When Mexico establishes manufacturing plants that employ American workers here as Japan does, then they would have reason to complain when we don't reciprocate. Mexico already encourages their poor to come here because they benefit hugely from all the U.S. money that is then shipped home to families still in Mexico--by some estimates up to $25 billion per year.

Trump has never specifically stated exactly how he was going to get Mexico to pay for that wall. But taking a Ford manufacturing plant away from them is a really good start.

How exactly does Mexico encourage their poor to come here?

AlbqOwl · Jan 5, 2017

americanwoman said:
How exactly does Mexico encourage their poor to come here?

Well, they don't do anything to discourage it and they don't provide any necessities for their poor and they provide them maps that point out the safest routes and where the water is stashed. And they accuse us of racism when we send their people back to them. And also a manual, produced by the Mexican government, counsels them on how to conduct themselves when they are here and how to avoid detection.
Maps Show Illegal Migrants Best Routes - latimes
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/06/w...l-for-illegal-migrants-upsets-some-in-us.html

Blue_State · Jan 5, 2017

AlbqOwl said:
Well, they don't do anything to discourage it and they don't provide any necessities for their poor and they provide them maps that point out the safest routes and where the water is stashed. And they accuse us of racism when we send their people back to them. And also a manual, produced by the Mexican government, counsels them on how to conduct themselves when they are here and how to avoid detection.
Maps Show Illegal Migrants Best Routes - latimes
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/06/w...l-for-illegal-migrants-upsets-some-in-us.html

I thought there was also guidance how to send money back to Mexico, but I didn't find it at a quick glance. But I have seen the above.

AlbqOwl · Jan 5, 2017

CanadaJohn said:
This is interesting news, and certainly it is indicative of what an active and involved leader can achieve when he/she uses the bully pulpit in a constructive fashion. It's also indicative of what happens when that same political leadership has a tinge of danger attached to it and isn't known for setting red lines and then wiping them out. It's partly why President Obama was such a failure in this regard - no one believed there'd ever be consequences to simply ignoring him.

The more interesting part, to me, is what the Trump posture will be towards business taxation and regulation going forward. Businesses operate based on bottom line calculations, not political ones. It's why many American multinationals relocated outside the US without any worry about political fallout - such political fallout never seemed to affect their bottom lines. It's pretty easy for Ford, today, to put a hold on investments in Mexico - such holds can be lifted in 6 months, a year, or so, when Ford sees what business operations in the US will involve and what the tax and regulatory climate will entail. If, even considering Trump's talk of tariffs, the cost of doing business is cheaper for Ford with a Mexican plant then that Mexican plant will be built. Ford has customers all over the world, not just in the US, so they're going to have plants all over the world as well. As will all other automakers.

Where the rubber will hit the road is if Trump tries to impose such tariffs and then the American car buyer is hit with a 30% or 40% increase in the cost of their new Fusion. The American consumer tends to be totally different from the American worker/taxpayer even when they're the same person. It's why WalMart is always busy pushing Chinese and other Asian goods - they're cheap and serviceable - that's all the consumer wants. Pretty soon, if the American consumer starts bending the ear of their local Senator or Representative, such tariffs will be in jeopardy.

Let's wait and see what a Trump administration can accomplish, if it wants to, in reducing the tax and regulatory burdens on business going forward - then, you'll really have a story because doing business within US borders will become more economically attractive.

That was what he campaigned on. And having watched him for the last several decades in his commentary at Fox, his occasional op ed piece, how he dealt with folks on "The Apprentice" etc., I don't see him at all as a dictator but definitely as a deal maker. If those Ford Fusions carry a 35% or whatever higher price tag, most folks won't pay it but will opt for a more affordable home grown model.

But I think Trump has a solid understanding of economics too and knows that there is nothing to be gained from a full blown trade war. So I see him wheeling and dealing to find middle ground that is mutually advantageous to all parties. What he doesn't want is the other guy getting most of the benefit from the deal and the USA getting very little. And he campaigned on reforming the tax code and eliminating unnecessary and burdensome rules and regulations. I just can't see him ignoring that as President.

He's a mere mortal just like the rest of us, so there are no magic wands to wave or godly decrees to make miracles magically appear. He'll make mistakes, he'll get it wrong at times, but I am increasingly encouraged that he just might be able get things pointed in the right direction for a change. Ultimately it will be up to all of us, but he can do a lot to help it happen.

ThoughtEx. · Jan 5, 2017

Anyone ever stop to think that, the US crippling the Mexican economy is the reason why so many immigrants come here...

I couldn't give a **** about 3600 jobs staying in the country. Whoop-dee doo, what happens in three years when the chicken comes to roost on bad fiscal policy? Those people will be laid off. You see, the people at the bottom need money to buy the product, if you give all the money to the top, they can't buy the product. The product isn't bought, the jobs go away.

You want more money for people to buy things, and less immigrants coming illegally, then the upper middle class needs to start investing capital into Mexico's almost nonexistent commodities market and domestic distribution networks. This will give us a return on their production, and raise their standard of living and wages to the point they won't have a reason to come here. And with less wage competition from a third world country, Americans can start negotiating their wages again. Instead of being forced to work at temp agencies that take 3 bucks off your hourly.

Basically the American Middle class needs to join the top 1 percent, but they can't in American Markets (no room), so they need to develop Mexican markets through investment. I would like to see every American receiving an income from foreign investments, instead of breaking their back at a job a machine should have been doing 10 years ago. Our middle class should be to mexico as our 1 percent is to our middle class.

Messed up part, is I got this idea from Donald Trump at a conference on investing he spoke at a few years ago...

Jack Fabulous · Jan 5, 2017

ThoughtEx. said:
Anyone ever stop to think that, the US crippling the Mexican economy is the reason why so many immigrants come here...

The US isn't crippling the Mexican economy.

jet57 · Jan 5, 2017

Erod said:
News from The Associated Press

Tell me again this is all meaningless posturing.

Ford's small cars are going to continue to be made in Mexico. I'm waiting for the 35% tariff to take effect.

ThoughtEx. · Jan 5, 2017

Jack Fabulous said:
The US isn't crippling the Mexican economy.

It never ceases to amaze me how conservatives can undermine their own positions by not knowing why they have those positions in the first place. Remind me, are you for or against ending NAFTA as Trump has proposed. Basically the only good idea Trump supporters latched onto of his. He sold the wall to the ignorant, and getting results by ending NAFTA is probably what he's banking on actually stopping illegal immigration.

Under Nafta, Mexico Suffered, and the United States Felt Its Pain - NYTimes.com

NAFTA 'a disaster' and I'll renegotiate, says Donald Trump - Business - CBC News

Ending NAFTA will end us propping up their very small artificial middle class, and us undercutting their farmers with our dirt cheap produce. Which seeing how Mexico's economy is mostly Agricultural can only be a good thing for them. And all those out of work farmers won't need to come work over here. I could get more technical, throw a bunch of jargon at ya, but something tells me I'd just wasting the effort and piss off anyone fond of farm subsidies.

Jack Fabulous · Jan 5, 2017

ThoughtEx. said:
It never ceases to amaze me how conservatives can undermine their own positions by not knowing why they have those positions in the first place. Remind me, are you for or against ending NAFTA as Trump has proposed. Basically the only good idea Trump supporters latched onto of his. He sold the wall to the ignorant, and getting results by ending NAFTA is probably what he's banking on actually stopping illegal immigration.

Under Nafta, Mexico Suffered, and the United States Felt Its Pain - NYTimes.com

NAFTA 'a disaster' and I'll renegotiate, says Donald Trump - Business - CBC News

Ending NAFTA will end us propping up their very small artificial middle class, and us undercutting their farmers with our dirt cheap produce. Which seeing how Mexico's economy is mostly Agricultural can only be a good thing for them. And all those out of work farmers won't need to come work over here. I could get more technical, throw a bunch of jargon at ya, but something tells me I'd just wasting the effort and piss off anyone fond of farm subsidies.

So the bottom line is that Mexico and Mexicans are entirely dependent upon us for their existence, then, because they surely are incapable of providing for themselves?

Sounds a little bigoted.

Mycroft · Jan 5, 2017

CanadaJohn said:
This is interesting news, and certainly it is indicative of what an active and involved leader can achieve when he/she uses the bully pulpit in a constructive fashion. It's also indicative of what happens when that same political leadership has a tinge of danger attached to it and isn't known for setting red lines and then wiping them out. It's partly why President Obama was such a failure in this regard - no one believed there'd ever be consequences to simply ignoring him.

The more interesting part, to me, is what the Trump posture will be towards business taxation and regulation going forward. Businesses operate based on bottom line calculations, not political ones. It's why many American multinationals relocated outside the US without any worry about political fallout - such political fallout never seemed to affect their bottom lines. It's pretty easy for Ford, today, to put a hold on investments in Mexico - such holds can be lifted in 6 months, a year, or so, when Ford sees what business operations in the US will involve and what the tax and regulatory climate will entail. If, even considering Trump's talk of tariffs, the cost of doing business is cheaper for Ford with a Mexican plant then that Mexican plant will be built. Ford has customers all over the world, not just in the US, so they're going to have plants all over the world as well. As will all other automakers.

Where the rubber will hit the road is if Trump tries to impose such tariffs and then the American car buyer is hit with a 30% or 40% increase in the cost of their new Fusion. The American consumer tends to be totally different from the American worker/taxpayer even when they're the same person. It's why WalMart is always busy pushing Chinese and other Asian goods - they're cheap and serviceable - that's all the consumer wants. Pretty soon, if the American consumer starts bending the ear of their local Senator or Representative, such tariffs will be in jeopardy.

Let's wait and see what a Trump administration can accomplish, if it wants to, in reducing the tax and regulatory burdens on business going forward - then, you'll really have a story because doing business within US borders will become more economically attractive.

AlbqOwl said:
That was what he campaigned on. And having watched him for the last several decades in his commentary at Fox, his occasional op ed piece, how he dealt with folks on "The Apprentice" etc., I don't see him at all as a dictator but definitely as a deal maker. If those Ford Fusions carry a 35% or whatever higher price tag, most folks won't pay it but will opt for a more affordable home grown model.

But I think Trump has a solid understanding of economics too and knows that there is nothing to be gained from a full blown trade war. So I see him wheeling and dealing to find middle ground that is mutually advantageous to all parties. What he doesn't want is the other guy getting most of the benefit from the deal and the USA getting very little. And he campaigned on reforming the tax code and eliminating unnecessary and burdensome rules and regulations. I just can't see him ignoring that as President.

He's a mere mortal just like the rest of us, so there are no magic wands to wave or godly decrees to make miracles magically appear. He'll make mistakes, he'll get it wrong at times, but I am increasingly encouraged that he just might be able get things pointed in the right direction for a change. Ultimately it will be up to all of us, but he can do a lot to help it happen.

Besides the great points you two make, there is also the question of what kind of support Trump will be getting from Congress...especially the Republicans. There is still those establishment elites hanging around. Trump's tax proposals will be especially dependent upon them.

Regardless their posturing one way and then the other, I'm not convinced Ryan and McConnell are totally on board with Trump's desires.

AlbqOwl · Jan 5, 2017

ThoughtEx. said:
Anyone ever stop to think that, the US crippling the Mexican economy is the reason why so many immigrants come here...

I couldn't give a **** about 3600 jobs staying in the country. Whoop-dee doo, what happens in three years when the chicken comes to roost on bad fiscal policy? Those people will be laid off. You see, the people at the bottom need money to buy the product, if you give all the money to the top, they can't buy the product. The product isn't bought, the jobs go away.

You want more money for people to buy things, and less immigrants coming illegally, then the upper middle class needs to start investing capital into Mexico's almost nonexistent commodities market and domestic distribution networks. This will give us a return on their production, and raise their standard of living and wages to the point they won't have a reason to come here. And with less wage competition from a third world country, Americans can start negotiating their wages again. Instead of being forced to work at temp agencies that take 3 bucks off your hourly.

Basically the American Middle class needs to join the top 1 percent, but they can't in American Markets (no room), so they need to develop Mexican markets through investment. I would like to see every American receiving an income from foreign investments, instead of breaking their back at a job a machine should have been doing 10 years ago. Our middle class should be to mexico as our 1 percent is to our middle class.

Messed up part, is I got this idea from Donald Trump at a conference on investing he spoke at a few years ago...

There is nothing wrong with investing in Mexican companies, but it should be Mexican companies and not American companies moving to Mexico.

AlbqOwl · Jan 5, 2017

Mycroft said:
Besides the great points you two make, there is also the question of what kind of support Trump will be getting from Congress...especially the Republicans. There is still those establishment elites hanging around. Trump's tax proposals will be especially dependent upon them.

Regardless their posturing one way and then the other, I'm not convinced Ryan and McConnell are totally on board with Trump's desires.

Of course they aren't. They are both deeply entrenched establishment and have no interest in upsetting that in any way. But that's why I think Trump might have been the very best choice among all those running for President because he is about as un-establishment as they come. He is un-PC, he doesn't do things they 'they have always been done', and he listens carefully and considers all information, but he is nobody's puppet or lapdog. If Ryan and McConnell give him serious grief, he'll go right over their heads and straight to the American people like Reagan did. If we like it, the polls will convince Ryan and McConnell that they better find some way to play ball. And they will.

Hawkeye10 · Jan 5, 2017

AlbqOwl said:
Of course they aren't. They are both deeply entrenched establishment and have no interest in upsetting that in any way. But that's why I think Trump might have been the very best choice among all those running for President because he is about as un-establishment as they come. He is un-PC, he doesn't do things they 'they have always been done', and he listens carefully and considers all information, but he is nobody's puppet or lapdog. If Ryan and McConnell give him serious grief, he'll go right over their heads and straight to the American people like Reagan did. If we like it, the polls will convince Ryan and McConnell that they better find some way to play ball. And they will.

Sing It Sister....

ThoughtEx. · Jan 5, 2017

Jack Fabulous said:
So the bottom line is that Mexico and Mexicans are entirely dependent upon us for their existence, then, because they surely are incapable of providing for themselves?

Sounds a little bigoted.

Sounds bigoted to me as well, good thing those are your words and not mine...

Jack Fabulous · Jan 5, 2017

ThoughtEx. said:
Sounds bigoted to me as well, good thing they're your words and not mine...

I'm not the one claiming that Mexican existence is dependent upon trade deals with America. What was it that convinced you that a life of servitude is all they are capable of?

ThoughtEx. · Jan 5, 2017

Jack Fabulous said:
I'm not the one claiming that Mexican existence is dependent upon trade deals with America. What was it that convinced you that a life of servitude is all they are capable of?

Seems to me like you are, I said nothing of the sort. In fact I said we are crippling their economy, meaning they are better off without us. It is your counter claim that we are not crippling them and I assume you believe we are only benefitting them. Wouldn't your position be the one where they can't exist without us, if that were true. Or are you saying I want to cut them loose to watch them die off? So you wish to keep NAFTA?

If you consider what Im proposing is a life of servitude, then congrats you yourself are living in a life of servitude.

And the funniest thing is your arguing against an idea Trump came up with, and I agree with him on. Remind me are you a Trump supporter?

Utility Man · Jan 5, 2017

:roll:

Nap · Jan 5, 2017

Utility Man said:
:roll:

You do understand these merely prove his point right?

Scuttled Ford plant has Mexico fearing more under Trump

Erod

reinoe

brothern

Erod

AlbqOwl

reinoe

CanadaJohn

Canadian Conservative

americanwoman

dangerously addictive

AlbqOwl

Blue_State

AlbqOwl

ThoughtEx.

Jack Fabulous

Friend Zone

jet57

ThoughtEx.

Jack Fabulous

Friend Zone

Mycroft

Genius is where you find it.

AlbqOwl

AlbqOwl

Hawkeye10

Buttermilk Man

ThoughtEx.

Jack Fabulous

Friend Zone

ThoughtEx.

Utility Man

Sidewalk Inspector

Nap