Son's broken arm: Bill Huizenga says people must be responsible for own health care

Re: Son's broken arm: Bill Huizenga says people must be responsible for own health ca

Helix said:

a broken arm is a serious medical event.



if you're arguing that any doctor or nurse would recommend toughing out a broken arm, then i don't believe you.



going to the emergency room due to a broken arm is not wimp behavior. that's intelligent behavior.

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Lol only when you know and many are not obvious!! It's very common for people to go to the doc days later and find out the problem. Again common sense!! Waiting overnight for the kid is not necessary a abuse. Wise up or unwrap the bubble wrap you live in.

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Re: Son's broken arm: Bill Huizenga says people must be responsible for own health ca

Henrin said:

Do people die from broken arms or something?

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Actually, yes, they can. Especially young or elderly people. it can cause sepsis and/or osteomyelitis, and if not treated quickly and properly... death.

However, waiting until the next morning would normally not make that big of difference in the long term prognosis with a round of antibiotics for green stem (stick) fractures, or radial, transverse or oblique fractures, however if the break was a compound fracture, it would require immediate medical attention and probably surgery.

Re: Son's broken arm: Bill Huizenga says people must be responsible for own health ca

VanceMack said:

I believe if you actually read the article you would agree it is a treatise in the high cost of healthcare and that his anecdote involving his son is not in fact the highlight of the article nor the intent of the commentary. It IS what people have chosen to obsess over, I imagine particularly because it gives them the opportunity to vent hatred towards an individual of an opposing political ideology. Now...reflecting on the actual article wouldn't you agree that is a much more correct interpretation of both the article and how it is being 'discussed'?


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Alright, so we're going with the weird belief that the focus of the article isn't on his son's broken arm but on the ACA.... which we can only assume forced him to neglect health care for a few hours... and we'll ignore that the point of providing background into Huiz's position on the law is to highlight just how nuts a person has to be to believe they should neglect a kid's healthcare over money at any point.

You do realize that even if we were to indulge you in this weird belief, we'd eventually end up with the position that a person could just deny their kid healthcare at any cost right? I mean, what if Huizinga finds Trump's allegedly cheaper alternative too expensive too? Could we then take that into consideration and say okay! Let's cheapen it? Obviously not. Huiz's point was a stupid one and it let us in on the reality of his family life. Again.. all of this is irrelevant because well... the story is about his SON'S BROKEN ARM.

Anyways, the veracity of the story is questionable too. I couldn't imagine having a fully employed parent denying healthcare because of cost. A broken arm without health insurance costs you in the thousands. Huiz is not one of those people neither is his son. With healthcare? Maybe... MAYBE a few hundred maybe even reaching the 1 to 2K mark in some states. You're trying to tell me that Huiz' with a salary of 174K, the health care given to him by the US government... couldn't afford a few hundred dollars on a broken arm for his kid?

Really, VanceMack? Really?

Re: Son's broken arm: Bill Huizenga says people must be responsible for own health ca

Henrin said:

Ok, so I should just establish random positions that have no connection to one another instead of establishing an underlining philosophy and building from there. That is totally better.

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So then you weren't mocking. Henrin, there are no two ways about this. I am affirming that your position in that post is silly. It's real, and it's silly. You're saying it's not... it just so happens to fit perfectly into every other view you have on healthcare....

...and that's how you mock people?

Oy vey.

Re: Son's broken arm: Bill Huizenga says people must be responsible for own health ca

Hatuey said:

So then you weren't mocking. Henrin, there are no two ways about this. I am affirming that your position in that post is silly. It's real, and it's silly. You're saying it's not... it just so happens to fit perfectly into every other view you have on healthcare....

...and that's how you mock people?

Oy vey.

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Considering that I have never went into my views on healthcare before on this forum there is no way you can know what my views on the topic are.

Hatuey said:

Alright, so we're going with the weird belief that the focus of the article isn't on his son's broken arm but on the ACA.... which we can only assume forced him to neglect health care for a few hours... and we'll ignore that the point of providing background into Huiz's position on the law is to highlight just how nuts a person has to be to believe they should neglect a kid's healthcare over money at any point.

You do realize that even if we were to indulge you in this weird belief, we'd eventually end up with the position that a person could just deny their kid healthcare at any cost right? I mean, what if Huizinga finds Trump's allegedly cheaper alternative too expensive too? Could we then take that into consideration and say okay! Let's cheapen it? Obviously not. Huiz's point was a stupid one and it let us in on the reality of his family life. Again.. all of this is irrelevant because well... the story is about his SON'S BROKEN ARM.

Anyways, the veracity of the story is questionable too. I couldn't imagine having a fully employed parent denying healthcare because of cost. A broken arm without health insurance costs you in the thousands. Huiz is not one of those people neither is his son. With healthcare? Maybe... MAYBE a few hundred maybe even reaching the 1 to 2K mark in some states. You're trying to tell me that Huiz' with a salary of 174K, the health care given to him by the US government... couldn't afford a few hundred dollars on a broken arm for his kid?

Really, VanceMack? Really?

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You know...for some strange reason you have since the outset seemed intent on making this about me personally. Your first several comments were almost...I don't know...as if by design...intended to create the illusion that I was not speaking 'topically'. In fact you mentioned that several times. I can only imagine how silly you just have felt when it was made PAINFULLY obvious that you hadn't even read the article you were commenting on. And yet...still...after you painted yourself as rather silly you PERSIST in the personal commentary. Almost as if you had some sort of motive.

It is really quite strange to me that while the cited article has SEVEN paragraphs and only ONE of the seven paragraphs was NOT about the ACA and the high cost of healthcare and that in the one paragraph it even says that 'he offered as an example' the anecdotal account of his sons 'broken arm' in discussing the high cost of health care that you would STILL....STILL want to make this some sort of personal...I don't know...not 'attack' per se...but...well...let's just leave it at 'personal'.

Hatuey...you are commenting on an article in which 6 of the 7 paragraphs directly pertain to the ACA and the high cost of health care. Even in the posting I made which triggered your incessant personal comments I ALSO agreed that broken bones should absolutely be treated on an emergency basis. Now....where would you like to go with this? We AGREE it is responsible to take a child (or yourself) to an ER if a broken bone is in question. You can only ADMIT that the article is ABOUT the ACA and the high cost of health care. Would you like to join me 'on topic' in a discussion on the actual purpose of the article or did you still have your original 'purpose' in mind?


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Re: Son's broken arm: Bill Huizenga says people must be responsible for own health ca

Henrin said:

Considering that I have never went into my views on healthcare before on this forum there is no way you can know what my views on the topic are.

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Henrin said:

Well, you know, people deciding to not buy healthcare is unacceptable. The government has to get involved in that.

You know, I went with the AOC example for laziness sake, but there is so many examples to pick. lol.

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Henrin said:

That's chattel slavery.



No, it is forcing terms of an agreement on employers. It is forcing employers to use their time and money to provide a benefit to employees. It is forcing them to make adjustments to their business like bring someone in to do the work that needs done when they are being forced to pay someone else for doing nothing.

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Seriously Henrin?

Re: Son's broken arm: Bill Huizenga says people must be responsible for own health ca

Beaudreaux said:

Actually, yes, they can. Especially young or elderly people. it can cause sepsis and/or osteomyelitis, and if not treated quickly and properly... death.

However, waiting until the next morning would normally not make that big of difference in the long term prognosis with a round of antibiotics for green stem (stick) fractures, or radial, transverse or oblique fractures, however if the break was a compound fracture, it would require immediate medical attention and probably surgery.

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On the money. Thank you. Common sense...

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Re: Son's broken arm: Bill Huizenga says people must be responsible for own health ca

VanceMack said:

You know...for some strange reason you have since the outset seemed intent on making this about me personally. Your first several comments were almost...I don't know...as if by design...intended to create the illusion that I was not speaking 'topically'.

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You aren't. The title of the story clearly discusses the son's broken arm. Not Huiz's belief that prices forced him to deny healthcare to his kid.

I didn't bother with anything else when you think 'I seem' to be saying what I've been pretty explicit about since the beginning.

If you'd like to discuss Huiz's views and how they affected his neglect of his kid, go nuts. This thread is pretty clearly about his broken arm.

Re: Son's broken arm: Bill Huizenga says people must be responsible for own health ca

This douche nozzle should be charged with child abuse/neglect or whatever charge fits. To those minimizing the pain of a broken arm - this child is/was 10!!!!!!!! If an adult wants to suffer until the next day, that's one thing, but don't make a child wait unnecessarily.

Re: Son's broken arm: Bill Huizenga says people must be responsible for own health ca

Hatuey said:

You aren't. The title of the story clearly discusses the son's broken arm. Not Huiz's belief that prices forced him to deny healthcare to his kid.

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I'm sorry...did you seriously just say that the 'Title' of the article is what is important and not the ACTUAL ARTICLE?


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Re: Son's broken arm: Bill Huizenga says people must be responsible for own health ca

VanceMack said:

I'm sorry...did you seriously just say that the 'Title' of the article is what is important and not the ACTUAL ARTICLE?

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The actual story is that Huiz gave some weird account of how his penny pinching forced him to neglect child care. Why you think we should actually validate his views by discussing them is the only thing we can't take seriously here.

Which other pieces of legislation can I think of when I decide whether I should deny care?

Just the ACA? What about legislation making gas effectively more expensive? Can I avoid driving a family member to the hospital if gas got to like 40 dollars a gallon? What about 10? Your position is one where Huiz's views are legitimate on any plain of existence.

They aren't. Thus, the topic is his son's broken arm and how he thought he'd let the kid tough it out a bit.

Re: Son's broken arm: Bill Huizenga says people must be responsible for own health ca

Hatuey said:

The actual story is that Huiz gave some weird account of how his penny pinching forced him to neglect child care. Why you think we should actually validate his views by discussing them is the only thing we can't take seriously here.

Which other pieces of legislation can I think of when I decide whether I should deny care?

Just the ACA? What about legislation making gas effectively more expensive? Can I avoid driving a family member to the hospital if gas got to like 40 dollars a gallon? What about 10? Your position is one where Huiz's views are legitimate on any plain of existence.

They aren't. Thus, the topic is his son's broken arm.

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Well...this is just decidedly weird. Your insistence on making this be about everything BUT the 6 out of 7 paragraphs cited in the article is very telling and your upset seems rather irrational. Perhaps we can carry on a dialogue in another thread at a time when this isn't so personal to you. Prayers for you.


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Re: Son's broken arm: Bill Huizenga says people must be responsible for own health ca

Partsguy57 said:

O stop, I've broken several bones and many many times the wait a day or two before setting and in some cases never!!! My buddy crashed two weeks ago on his dirt bike and they just left collar bone alone. Good Grief many times you don't even know if it broke until you go and have it checked and sometimes people wait days for this. So many people are so inactive that they don't even know what pain is and run to the emergency room for every sniffle. Many doctors will tell you that many people are just wimps!!! Riding two years ago and my son went down in front of me. This is when you go to the emergency room, sometimes it's not so obvious and common sense comes into play!!

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What a ridiculous comparison. You typically don't have to do anything with a broken collar bone. Not all bones require being set or surgery. For example, back in August I was ran over from behind while I was on my road bike at a stop light. The lady that hit me plowed into me at 40 mph because she was looking at her cell phone. It broke me back, several ribs, and my scapula. None of them required to be set because you can't set any of them. However, just because my breaks did not require being set, does not mean that a limb can go without being set. Moreover, what is the point of waiting on a broken limb? You have to go to the hospital either way. You are going to be about the amount of money either way.

Re: Son's broken arm: Bill Huizenga says people must be responsible for own health ca

Partsguy57 said:

Lol only when you know and many are not obvious!! It's very common for people to go to the doc days later and find out the problem. Again common sense!! Waiting overnight for the kid is not necessary a abuse. Wise up or unwrap the bubble wrap you live in.

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common sense is seeking medical attention when you have broken bones.

Re: Son's broken arm: Bill Huizenga says people must be responsible for own health ca

SouthernDemocrat said:

Son's broken arm: Bill Huizenga says people must be responsible for own health care costs | MLive.com

For ****s sake what is wrong with this guy? The larger point I think is a good one in that yes some people over utilize the emergency room taking for obvious non-emergencies like a cold or very minor injuries that you could either go to urgent care for or simply wait to get in with your GP. Furthermore, I watch our medical spending due to our coinsurance and deductibles, so I don't understand why others would not as well. That said, who in the hell does not think a broken arm is an emergency? Who let's their kid sweat it out in pain all night until they finally decide to take them in the next morning? A broken limb hurts like hell until its set. Moreover, it requires a hospital visit anyway so you are not saving any money by waiting until the next morning. He basically confessed to child neglect in his terrible example. [/FONT][/COLOR]

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Reading this thread, I have to take the contrary position.

Obviously this arm wasn't clearly broken - I dont think anyone with an obvious break is going to make their kid suffer thru a night without treatment. It was probably a situtation like Ive seen multiple times - its a bad sprain - could be a break - maybe - but its not clear. I've waited plenty of times to take one of my kids to a doctor - or to a friend who is an orthopod - rather than go to the ED.

But his larger point is really worth considering. People should have a stake in their health care costs. Moreover - why should an ED visit cost so much more than a trip to a regular physician? You get seen, you get an xray, you get a consult, or admitted... same things get done in either place. Why a tenfold difference in cost? Its because the US healthcare system is inherently not set up well.

And should people take cost into consideration when making choices? I think its essential. I remember back when I started in pharmacy, there were lots of insurance plans that had a zero dollar copay for meds. The research done by those plans ended up being very, very clear.... zero dollar copays resulted in patients not taking their medicine, thus worsening their health. Even small copays spurred refills - showing patients valued their drugs if they actually made an investment into it, rather than wasting the pills . You can extrapolate this to all forms of medical care.

One of the biggest problems with the US healthcare system is the absolute lack of price transparency. How much IS an ED visit? How much IS getting an arm fracture treated in a doctors office going to be? Whats the tradeoff there - if Bill H saw they were the same cost - or a fifty dollar difference would he get that care? He had absolutely no basis to know the costs of both, so he was restricting health care for his son based upon his imagination of what an ED bill would be. Stupid system.

Re: Son's broken arm: Bill Huizenga says people must be responsible for own health ca

Hatuey said:

They aren't. Thus, the topic is his son's broken arm and how he thought he'd let the kid tough it out a bit.

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Reminds me of Hetty Green.

Her frugality extended to family life. When her son Ned broke his leg as a child, Hetty tried to have him admitted to a free clinic for the poor. Mythic accounts have her storming away after being recognized; her biographer Slack says that she paid her bill and took her son to other doctors. His leg did not heal properly and, after years of treatment, it had to be amputated.

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Re: Son's broken arm: Bill Huizenga says people must be responsible for own health ca

VanceMack said:

Well...this is just decidedly weird. Your insistence on making this be about everything BUT the 6 out of 7 paragraphs cited in the article is very telling and your upset seems rather irrational. Perhaps we can carry on a dialogue in another thread at a time when this isn't so personal to you. Prayers for you.


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You really have the most confused and partisan position in the thread. Do you erroneously think that ER costs only became a problem after the ACA- or are you incapable of honesty?

Re: Son's broken arm: Bill Huizenga says people must be responsible for own health ca

Absentglare said:

You really have the most confused and partisan position in the thread. Do you erroneously think that ER costs only became a problem after the ACA- or are you incapable of honesty?

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Can you point to ANYTHING in my comment that indicated that to be the case?

I think its rather interesting how quickly you are to shriek in defense of the ACA when my comment re cost had precisely zero to do with what you claim. Maybe you also are taking something too personally. Or just having a really really bad day. I'll have good thoughts for you.

Re: Son's broken arm: Bill Huizenga says people must be responsible for own health ca

RetiredUSN said:

Broken bones suck.

I have had 12 of them.


Take care of the kid and worry about the bills later!

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Broken ribs...terrible...broken foot...almost worse. The ribs though, that was terrible.

Re: Son's broken arm: Bill Huizenga says people must be responsible for own health ca

Blue_State said:

Broken ribs...terrible...broken foot...almost worse. The ribs though, that was terrible.

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Lost my pinky knuckle in 1979 along with 4 other broken bones in my right hand from a accident. The Navy doctors at Bethesda did a great job keeping me on active duty..

3 broken/cracked ribs trying to catch a guy who was falling off off a small boat davit.

Broke my right index finger from slipping on ice.

Big toe...... kids toys

Broke my sternum and another rib in 2011 when a stair case tread broke while inspecting a house.

Re: Son's broken arm: Bill Huizenga says people must be responsible for own health ca

Henrin said:

Do people die from broken arms or something?

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This is a ridiculous statement,. Just because something may not cause death does not mean it is not an emergency. Further, your assessment of what is or is not an emergency is nothing but your opinion, so saying something "is not an emergency" as you did in your first statement, is also a ridiculous... and worthless statement.

Re: Son's broken arm: Bill Huizenga says people must be responsible for own health ca

Threegoofs said:

Reading this thread, I have to take the contrary position.

Obviously this arm wasn't clearly broken - I dont think anyone with an obvious break is going to make their kid suffer thru a night without treatment. It was probably a situtation like Ive seen multiple times - its a bad sprain - could be a break - maybe - but its not clear. I've waited plenty of times to take one of my kids to a doctor - or to a friend who is an orthopod - rather than go to the ED.

But his larger point is really worth considering. People should have a stake in their health care costs. Moreover - why should an ED visit cost so much more than a trip to a regular physician? You get seen, you get an xray, you get a consult, or admitted... same things get done in either place. Why a tenfold difference in cost? Its because the US healthcare system is inherently not set up well.

And should people take cost into consideration when making choices? I think its essential. I remember back when I started in pharmacy, there were lots of insurance plans that had a zero dollar copay for meds. The research done by those plans ended up being very, very clear.... zero dollar copays resulted in patients not taking their medicine, thus worsening their health. Even small copays spurred refills - showing patients valued their drugs if they actually made an investment into it, rather than wasting the pills . You can extrapolate this to all forms of medical care.

One of the biggest problems with the US healthcare system is the absolute lack of price transparency. How much IS an ED visit? How much IS getting an arm fracture treated in a doctors office going to be? Whats the tradeoff there - if Bill H saw they were the same cost - or a fifty dollar difference would he get that care? He had absolutely no basis to know the costs of both, so he was restricting health care for his son based upon his imagination of what an ED bill would be. Stupid system.

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I largely agree with you. However, speaking from experience, if your kid has a broken limb you are going to be out the same amount of money regardless of how you handle it because they will require a pediatric orthopedist to set it in a hospital.

Re: Son's broken arm: Bill Huizenga says people must be responsible for own health ca

Henrin said:

A broken arm is not an emergency. Why would you think it is?

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So take two aspirin and call the doc in the morning so he can send Junior to the ER, eh? I mean, how many orthopedists accept walk-ins anyway?

I tend to agree with you more often than not, but in this case we part company. Depending on the severity of the injury, I can see the risk of shock, infection in the case of a compound fracture, nerve damage from restricted blood flow, the possible severing of an artery by a sharp broken bone, embolism or thrombosis, etc. You can say these things are rare, but when you consider that many of them could result in a fatality, why take a chance, especially with a kid? And then, at least for me, there's the moral issue of whether I'm going to make my child suffer more than he has to by delaying medical care. The answer for me is an emphatic "No."

Re: Son's broken arm: Bill Huizenga says people must be responsible for own health ca

Henrin said:

A broken arm is not an emergency. Why would you think it is?

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I have had 6 broken bones, two requiring surgery, and all were emergencies. You don't guess if the break can be considered "minor" and can be safely stabilized with a splint - get Xray(s) and seek proper medical treatment ASAP.