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Russian ambassador to Turkey shot in Ankara

The assassination of Russia's Ambassador to Turkey was a heinous and dishonorable act.

I think the other question would be what the ambassador was doing without any kind of security detail, what I've read so far suggests he was a veteran diplomat (Served in North Korea in the 80's) and it just wasn't his style, well unfortunately it probably cost him his life.

Still though, for a veteran diplomat to not take precautions as ambassador to a country that had recently shot down one of his own countries jets, had, had multiple terrorist attacks in the last year and an extremely heightened possibility of many more, an attempted military coup and not thought to have any kind of protection at the behest of the Russian Foreign Ministry at a highly public gathering is very odd.
 
I would say he had a significant security detail. Wonder how the shooter got close.



The front-page picture is him standing right next to the corpse, so, close....

Fortunately the world situation has changed a lot in 100 years
 
What do you want the President of the United States to do in response to the assassination of Putin's stooge?

If he put on a blue suit with a big S on the front and flew to Turkey to set everything right to the accompaniment of cheering Russians and Turks alike , the right wing would just claim that the S stood for socialism and that Trump would have done it better.
 
How did you feel about Benghazi?

Benghazi was horrible. The compound had no security. But the worst of it is if security had been present, they weren't authorized to carry weapons.

This is a super complex story so I'm just throwing out some very limited details of what happened. I realize what I'm posting is sketchy at best, but considering all of the players involved, I can't possibly lay the whole thing out in this thread.

Congress is at fault for failing to fund the type of security needed. The law (enacted in 1991) by Congress stipulated only "unarmed security". The law controls how much the State Department could spend on security in that particular area - wouldn't be enough to pay for a crossing guards at a public elementary school.

The security contractor was located somewhere in Denmark (or in that region), and few knew anything about this phantom company. It was a small office front. And the folks who did know about this contractor also knew it was bad news. It's owner was considered to be linked to a company in Libya who was involved in all sorts of bribery gigs and other shady dealings in the Middle East through dealing with the State Depart, which was aware of the people involved but didn't raise red flags when they showed up on the bidders list.

The shady security contractor didn't attend the bidders meeting but submitted a bid prior to the meeting and underbid by only a few percent the company who was actually qualified to provide security (which also served the US for many years in very hot spots) and according to the law passed by Congress, that low bidder got the bid regardless of qualification.

State Department employees who were over the acquisition of security for US diplomats were negligent, incompetent, fail to vet the security contractor which cost the lives of the folks who died in Benghazi. All the State Department had to do is turn around and point the finger at Congress, which totally fell through the cracks with the MSM about their role in the debacle, when it came time to call out those who were accountable. Clinton probably didn't directly know how things came down until it was too late. Then it was CYA time.
 
My brain is full of Christmas stuff, cleaning the house, plowing the driveway, loading the bin up with firewood and you expected me to think? Ain't happening today bro.

You sounded pretty pissed.
 
Badly. But this isn't about fairness or equity. Context matters. Our ambassador in Benghazi was slain by Islamist militants because of what he represented, and for his service as part of a wider mission that I believe to be justice. Conversely, I believe that the Russian ambassador represented a perverse mission and was an abetter of much criminal bloodshed. Therefore, I do not mourn his death.

The United States has been doing the same bull**** in the Middle East and South America that Russia has been doing in the Middle East. Don't pretend we are much if not any better than Russia in regards to what we do to other nations for power in the region. This man had a job to do. Which was trying to be diplomatic between nations to prevent things like this from happening. You have no idea what he was involved with. There are many people in Russia that aren't personally responsible for the bad things that some leaders might do.
 
Maybe Russia will start reconsidering their carpet bomb approach to Syria.

That's why the ambassadress was shot. Its a retribution killing over Aleppo.
 
Hang onto your undies folks, cause it's gonna get ****ing Leary.

Well Russia wants a foothold in the Middle East and Syria is it. Get your boots on.
 
I think the other question would be what the ambassador was doing without any kind of security detail, what I've read so far suggests he was a veteran diplomat (Served in North Korea in the 80's) and it just wasn't his style, well unfortunately it probably cost him his life.

Still though, for a veteran diplomat to not take precautions as ambassador to a country that had recently shot down one of his own countries jets, had, had multiple terrorist attacks in the last year and an extremely heightened possibility of many more, an attempted military coup and not thought to have any kind of protection at the behest of the Russian Foreign Ministry at a highly public gathering is very odd.

We agree. I'm quite surprised that he didn't have protection, especially as Turkey has experienced a number of terrorist attacks over the past year.
 
Here's the video from the NY Times: no blood or nothin.

[video]http://nyti.ms/2i2t9Mm[/video]

Now we know.
 
I think the other question would be what the ambassador was doing without any kind of security detail, what I've read so far suggests he was a veteran diplomat (Served in North Korea in the 80's) and it just wasn't his style, well unfortunately it probably cost him his life.

Still though, for a veteran diplomat to not take precautions as ambassador to a country that had recently shot down one of his own countries jets, had, had multiple terrorist attacks in the last year and an extremely heightened possibility of many more, an attempted military coup and not thought to have any kind of protection at the behest of the Russian Foreign Ministry at a highly public gathering is very odd.

He was making a speech an art exhibit: the shooter was behind him dressed in a suit and tie.
 
The United States has been doing the same bull**** in the Middle East and South America that Russia has been doing in the Middle East. Don't pretend we are much if not any better than Russia in regards to what we do to other nations for power in the region. This man had a job to do. Which was trying to be diplomatic between nations to prevent things like this from happening. You have no idea what he was involved with. There are many people in Russia that aren't personally responsible for the bad things that some leaders might do.

I don't have to believe we are better. I know we are better. The man assassinated was the Russian point-person for relations with Turkey, in other words a critical actor in the machinery of the Russian war effort in Syria. I have no reason to mourn his death.
 
You sounded pretty pissed.

Nope, just tired. I had a long list I have been working through. I had to finish building a log dining table, move half a cord of firewood from the wood shed to the bin on the deck, mop all the floors upstairs (moved all of the furniture), go to town and finish shopping (I hate going to town), take the dog to get him groomed, help a neighbor watch over about 60 slash piles the forest department set right off his property, remove two gates during a snow storm so we could get into the property, check on another neighbor's property because of the same fires (who sets fires with 70 mph winds foretasted?)deliver packages to some neighbors because FedEx and UPS can't get to their properties when the road is snowed over, put up a Christmas tree and decorate it, decorated the inside of the house, decorated the outside of the house and a bunch of other stuff, all this week. Normal stuff around here with Christmas thrown in. I was just tired and not long for words. I can't wait for Christmas so we can eat some good food, spend time with family and then move on to the projects that I want to do.
 
Nope, just tired. I had a long list I have been working through. I had to finish building a log dining table, move half a cord of firewood from the wood shed to the bin on the deck, mop all the floors upstairs (moved all of the furniture), go to town and finish shopping (I hate going to town), take the dog to get him groomed, help a neighbor watch over about 60 slash piles the forest department set right off his property, remove two gates during a snow storm so we could get into the property, check on another neighbor's property because of the same fires (who sets fires with 70 mph winds foretasted?)deliver packages to some neighbors because FedEx and UPS can't get to their properties when the road is snowed over, put up a Christmas tree and decorate it, decorated the inside of the house, decorated the outside of the house and a bunch of other stuff, all this week. Normal stuff around here with Christmas thrown in. I was just tired and not long for words. I can't wait for Christmas so we can eat some good food, spend time with family and then move on to the projects that I want to do.

And all before 9am. :2razz:
 
Putin vowed revenge.

Of course he did. Damn hypocrite.

You want to talk about revenge Putin?

MH17 ****face.

Sit down and shut your mouth, imbecile.
 
Benghazi was horrible. The compound had no security. But the worst of it is if security had been present, they weren't authorized to carry weapons.

This is a super complex story so I'm just throwing out some very limited details of what happened. I realize what I'm posting is sketchy at best, but considering all of the players involved, I can't possibly lay the whole thing out in this thread.

Congress is at fault for failing to fund the type of security needed. The law (enacted in 1991) by Congress stipulated only "unarmed security". The law controls how much the State Department could spend on security in that particular area - wouldn't be enough to pay for a crossing guards at a public elementary school.

The security contractor was located somewhere in Denmark (or in that region), and few knew anything about this phantom company. It was a small office front. And the folks who did know about this contractor also knew it was bad news. It's owner was considered to be linked to a company in Libya who was involved in all sorts of bribery gigs and other shady dealings in the Middle East through dealing with the State Depart, which was aware of the people involved but didn't raise red flags when they showed up on the bidders list.

The shady security contractor didn't attend the bidders meeting but submitted a bid prior to the meeting and underbid by only a few percent the company who was actually qualified to provide security (which also served the US for many years in very hot spots) and according to the law passed by Congress, that low bidder got the bid regardless of qualification.

State Department employees who were over the acquisition of security for US diplomats were negligent, incompetent, fail to vet the security contractor which cost the lives of the folks who died in Benghazi. All the State Department had to do is turn around and point the finger at Congress, which totally fell through the cracks with the MSM about their role in the debacle, when it came time to call out those who were accountable. Clinton probably didn't directly know how things came down until it was too late. Then it was CYA time.

Thank you for the back gorund info. A real ffn mess
 
The United States has been doing the same bull**** in the Middle East and South America that Russia has been doing in the Middle East. Don't pretend we are much if not any better than Russia in regards to what we do to other nations for power in the region. This man had a job to do. Which was trying to be diplomatic between nations to prevent things like this from happening. You have no idea what he was involved with. There are many people in Russia that aren't personally responsible for the bad things that some leaders might do.

Any diplomat killed makes for open season on all, sad the man died. Without Diplomats where would we be?
More wars comes to mind.
 
Thank you for the back gorund info. A real ffn mess

A FUBAR beyond belief. It was all preventable but we know that the Congressional members who enacted the law that defines the boundaries and limitations of the State Department for securing the safety of US Diplomats aren't going down. The State Department employees are gonna cry that their hands were tied. That would actually be a lie, but that's how it would go.

A minor change in the law that states lowest bidder "most qualified to provide security in regions that are considered to be violent, or potentially violent because of exposure to war activities directly or by neighboring countries, civil unrest, or potential terrorism activities" would have prevented Benghazi. That would force the State Department to look way beyond the dollar amount on bids. They'd have to actually vet the security companies.

As far as I know, nothing yet has changed. So our Diplomats in foreign countries should be raising hell with Congress.
 
Any diplomat killed makes for open season on all, sad the man died. Without Diplomats where would we be?
More wars comes to mind.

Depends on the diplomat and the foreign policy vision he represents. The military industrial complex has so thoroughly infiltrated and perverted the institution of Diplomacy that one can rarely be sure that any given diplomatic post isn't just an extension of it, intended to lay the groundwork for war and facilitate other military operations. I don't know much about Andrei Karlov except that he has been an active participant in Russia's diplomatic missions since the 1970s, but we can never just assume that an Ambassador is working with peace in mind. Sometimes they're involved in things that make them legitimate targets.
 
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