• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

US investigating jail where black man died after being held for months over $5 [W:42]

Re: US investigating jail where black man died after being held for months over $5 [W

Hawkeye10 said:
The mental health system was wrecked during the 60's.
Click to expand...

You nailed it, man. THAT is the real problem. And then there's the fact these mentally-ill people often end up in jails and prisons, where they not only don't get the care they need, but prove to be a danger to themselves, other prisoners, or guards.
 
Re: US investigating jail where black man died after being held for months over $5 [W

Ahlevah said:
You nailed it, man. THAT is the real problem. And then there's the fact these mentally-ill people often end up in jails and prisons, where they not only don't get the care they need, but prove to be a danger to themselves, other prisoners, or guards.
Click to expand...

What kind of ****ed up people tear down the mental health hospital system, subs jails...does this for decades, and the subject rarely rates talking about?

Looking at this case by race misses the big story, the major reason this American did not get what he needed to live.

In historical perspective, we have returned to the early nineteenth century, when
mentally ill persons filled our jails and prisons. At that time, a reform movement,
sparked by Dorothea Dix, led to a more humane treatment of mentally ill persons. For
over a hundred years, mentally ill individuals were treated in hospitals. We have now
returned to the conditions of the 1840s by putting large numbers of mentally ill persons
back into jails and prisons.
Click to expand...
http://www.treatmentadvocacycenter.org/storage/documents/final_jails_v_hospitals_study.pdf

By the early 1970s, it was becoming evident that the emptying of the state mental
hospitals had resulted in a marked increase in the number of mentally ill individuals in
jails and prisons.
Click to expand...

1970!
 
Last edited:
Re: US investigating jail where black man died after being held for months over $5 [W

Hawkeye10 said:
The mental health system was wrecked during the 60's.


Fifty Years of Failing America's Mentally Ill
Click to expand...

Sure, but it was Reagan that decided it was better to turn em out, instead of addressing the issues and high costs. And then when crime got bad he campaigned on locking them up, and spending more than we ever did on mental healthcare.
 
Re: US investigating jail where black man died after being held for months over $5 [W

ThoughtEx. said:
Sure, but it was Reagan that decided it was better to turn em out, instead of addressing the issues and high costs. And then when crime got bad he campaigned on locking them up, and spending more than we ever did on mental healthcare.
Click to expand...

Reagan got in on the ground floor of this disaster:

4 Three public mental hospitals closed
during this time period. The legislature intended for
the savings from these closures to be distributed to
community programs. However, in 1972 and 1973
then-Governor Ronald Reagan vetoed the transfer of
these funds. Between 1974 and 1984, the funding of
community mental health programs was in constant
flux, with many counties lamenting local mental health
service gaps due to lack of sufficient funding.
Click to expand...
PG 6
http://law.stanford.edu/wp-content/...hild-page/632655/doc/slspublic/Report_v12.pdf
 
Re: US investigating jail where black man died after being held for months over $5 [W

TheDemSocialist said:
Read more @: US investigating jail where black man died after being held for months over $5

I seriously hope justice is done in this case. The prison industrial complex in this country is in need of serious reform and this is just another example to why its in need of reform.
Click to expand...

First of all, it wasn't a prison, it was the Portsmouth city Jail, not a third party state or federally funded prison complex.

Second, I knew the guy that died.
600.jpg

Everyone knew "Jamy" around his neighborhood, and knew he wasn't all there.

I knew him because he always pestered me when I was around doing work on houses.

And, just in case the "proggy's" decide to turn this into a racial issue, the jail is staffed with about 80% blacks.

His own 'brothers" let him waste, and they should be sent to prison themselves for a very long time. Not a single one of them spoke up about "Jamy" to the Sheriff, or any other city official.
 
Last edited:
Re: US investigating jail where black man died after being held for months over $5 [W

RetiredUSN said:
First of all, it wasn't a prison, it was the Portsmouth city Jail, not a third party state or federally funded prison complex.

Second, I knew the guy that died.
View attachment 67211190

Everyone knew "Jamy" around his neighborhood, and knew he wasn't all there.

I knew him because he always pestered me when I was around doing work on houses.

And, just in case the "proggy's" decide to turn this into a racial issue, the jail is staffed with about 80% blacks.

His own 'brothers" let him waste, and they should be sent to prison themselves for a very long time. Not a single one of them spoke up about "Jamy" to the Sheriff, or any other city official.
Click to expand...

Well his family is sure interested now.

$60 million they want.

They are not shy.

:minigavel
 
Re: US investigating jail where black man died after being held for months over $5 [W

So those responsible are also the ones investigating. I have to ask what a justice department is for if this can happen

Months in jail alone, let alone death, for trying and failing to steal $5 of crap far exceeds my standard for justice or cruel and unusual punishment. And that's whether he's mentally ill or not
 
Re: US investigating jail where black man died after being held for months over $5 [W

RetiredUSN said:
First of all, it wasn't a prison, it was the Portsmouth city Jail, not a third party state or federally funded prison complex.

Second, I knew the guy that died.
View attachment 67211190

Everyone knew "Jamy" around his neighborhood, and knew he wasn't all there.

I knew him because he always pestered me when I was around doing work on houses.

And, just in case the "proggy's" decide to turn this into a racial issue, the jail is staffed with about 80% blacks.

His own 'brothers" let him waste, and they should be sent to prison themselves for a very long time. Not a single one of them spoke up about "Jamy" to the Sheriff, or any other city official.
Click to expand...

He shouldn't have been in any jail in the first place over 5 ****ing dollars. If he isn't "all there" what possible use could it serve?
 
Last edited:
Re: US investigating jail where black man died after being held for months over $5 [W

Hawkeye10 said:
What kind of ****ed up people tear down the mental health hospital system, subs jails...does this for decades, and the subject rarely rates talking about?

Looking at this case by race misses the big story, the major reason this American did not get what he needed to live.


http://www.treatmentadvocacycenter.org/storage/documents/final_jails_v_hospitals_study.pdf



1970!
Click to expand...

Minorities usually can't afford competent lawyers or to make bail, either which would've prevented this. Justice in this country is to a very large extent defined by your wallet

But you make a good point about the deplorable way we treat the mentally ill and i figure it's because people, being good christians, don't want to be burdened by the mentally ill, or anyone who acts odd - throw away the key either way, all good to them. Treatment was never a priority, just total segregation. Of course, in a prison environment there's 0 chance they get better, so you just increase sentencing exponentially, make them good and proper slaves, out of sight out of mind

What this case resembles is more like the nazi way of dealing with mentally ill, but the typical case of someone barely aware of their surroundings being locked away indefinitely is barbaric enough
 
Re: US investigating jail where black man died after being held for months over $5 [W

chromium said:
Minorities usually can't afford competent lawyers or to make bail, either which would've prevented this. Justice in this country is to a very large extent defined by your wallet

But you make a good point about the deplorable way we treat the mentally ill and i figure it's because people, being good christians, don't want to be burdened by the mentally ill, or anyone who acts odd - throw away the key either way, all good to them. Treatment was never a priority, just total segregation. Of course, in a prison environment there's 0 chance they get better, so you just increase sentencing exponentially, make them good and proper slaves, out of sight out of mind

What this case resembles is more like the nazi way of dealing with mentally ill, but the typical case of someone barely aware of their surroundings being locked away indefinitely is barbaric enough
Click to expand...

This was not about bail, he was ordered to a mental health facility by a judge.

It never happened.

For months.

The End
 
Re: US investigating jail where black man died after being held for months over $5 [W

Hawkeye10 said:
This was not about bail, he was ordered to a mental health facility by a judge.

It never happened.

For months.

The End
Click to expand...

If he had a capable lawyer he probably wouldn't have been found incompetent and would've made bail. No it's not the end either, all you gotta do is read the details. He was kept in jail 4 weeks before the hearing, itself too long a punishment for the terrible crime of stealing $5. Then he was ordered to a hospital, but the waiting list was so long, he would've been dead even if the court order was processed the very same day. So the legislature's new law is just pretending to give a damn to the media, hopes to prevent a lawsuit, and does nothing to fix the problem. Nothing CAN fix that except as you said, more $$ into mental health treatment

But suppose he lucked out and they did have room at some hospital. After a few months on some new meds he would've been declared competent to stand trial, sent back to jail without the meds, maybe declared incompetent again if it were a felony trial that dragged on and the process repeats for years. But since it's petty theft, he would've died after a prompt conviction by a jury not remotely qualified to judge matters of mental illness, or aware of what his fate would be. His condition would deteriorate in that barbaric place, sooner or later, and all for $5, not for justice, deterrence, or rehabilitation
 
Re: US investigating jail where black man died after being held for months over $5 [W

chromium said:
He shouldn't have been in any jail in the first place over 5 ****ing dollars. If he isn't "all there" what possible use could it serve?
Click to expand...

Of course he shouldn't have been there.

I doubt he understood that stealing was wrong to begin with.

If the store owners would have known him, or the police, he could have been let go.

The entire neighborhood failed him by not going to the police and explaining "Jamy's" mental disability.

It wasn't just the jail that failed here, it was a total lack of caring by the entire neighborhood.

But then again, his entire neighborhood is filled with stories like his.
 
Re: US investigating jail where black man died after being held for months over $5 [W

Hawkeye10 said:
This was not about bail, he was ordered to a mental health facility by a judge.

It never happened.

For months.

The End
Click to expand...

Virginia lacks the beds for new patients. It can takes months for a patient to get in.

Virginia Senator Creigh Deeds was almost stabbed to death by his own son while waiting to get him into a facility.

The Sheriff's Dept. was waiting on a opening while this was happening.
 
Re: US investigating jail where black man died after being held for months over $5 [W

11Bravo said:
weather or not u take anything seriously is of no concern to us
Click to expand...

So the wife agrees?
 
Re: US investigating jail where black man died after being held for months over $5 [W

MaggieD said:
How about focusing on THIS instance instead of attacking the whole complex? Sounds a whole lot like BLM ****.

Until this country is willing to go to virtual war over this kind of malfeasance, it will be forever thus. Incompetence, in this instance, is a crime that should be punished. Lack of double-check redundancy, in this instance, should be a crime. It is the only way to send a message to the next idiot.

"Oops," should NOT be a defense.
Click to expand...

Maggie I never realized you were one who sees war, whether virtual or literal, as the solution to every problem.

Because similar failures of the criminal justice system manifest in every state in the union, nearly every county in the state, it is a fair inference that the entire system is way past broke. This country has led the world in per capita rate of imprisonment for at least 30 years. Rather a grim statistic for the land of the free and home of the brave IMO.
 
Re: US investigating jail where black man died after being held for months over $5 [W

Thoreau72 said:
Maggie I never realized you were one who sees war, whether virtual or literal, as the solution to every problem.

Because similar failures of the criminal justice system manifest in every state in the union, nearly every county in the state, it is a fair inference that the entire system is way past broke. This country has led the world in per capita rate of imprisonment for at least 30 years. Rather a grim statistic for the land of the free and home of the brave IMO.
Click to expand...

Your first sentence. What does that even mean as relates to Maggie? You disagree with me because I think that heads should roll over some of these prison conditions? Allowing gang culture to flourish? Prisoners afraid to sleep at night? Weapons attacking prisoners in the yard? Beating the crap out of prisoners because of some imagined show of disrespect to a thug or his friends? Prison rape?

If seeing that as a problem that needs the kitchen sink thrown at it makes me some kind of war monger...really? I'll take the moniker. There are predators in our prisoners. The culture that allows that should be destroyed.
 
Re: US investigating jail where black man died after being held for months over $5 [W

MaggieD said:
Your first sentence. What does that even mean as relates to Maggie? You disagree with me because I think that heads should roll over some of these prison conditions? Allowing gang culture to flourish? Prisoners afraid to sleep at night? Weapons attacking prisoners in the yard? Beating the crap out of prisoners because of some imagined show of disrespect to a thug or his friends? Prison rape?

If seeing that as a problem that needs the kitchen sink thrown at it makes me some kind of war monger...really? I'll take the moniker. There are predators in our prisoners. The culture that allows that should be destroyed.
Click to expand...

I commented ONLY about your easy use of the word "war" as a way to solve the problem. That's all. Otherwise I agree with you, but will repeat that the problem we both agree exists manifests all across the country, not just in one or two states or jurisdictions.

FYI, just last week I visited an old friend who has been in prison since about 1995. I've been visiting him since he's been in. He is one of the many geriatric prisoners over 70 years of age. At the prisons he has been in here in the State of Florida, conditions are not nearly as bad as you might think. He has never been attacked or raped in those years.

As a taxpayer, I object to my tax dollars being wasted on geriatric patients who are threats to nobody at all. Some with walkers, some in wheelchairs, those guys don't need to be in anymore, but I digress. :peace
 
Re: US investigating jail where black man died after being held for months over $5 [W

RetiredUSN said:
First of all, it wasn't a prison, it was the Portsmouth city Jail, not a third party state or federally funded prison complex.

Second, I knew the guy that died.
View attachment 67211190

Everyone knew "Jamy" around his neighborhood, and knew he wasn't all there.

I knew him because he always pestered me when I was around doing work on houses.

And, just in case the "proggy's" decide to turn this into a racial issue, the jail is staffed with about 80% blacks.

His own 'brothers" let him waste, and they should be sent to prison themselves for a very long time. Not a single one of them spoke up about "Jamy" to the Sheriff, or any other city official.
Click to expand...

When I was in college (dirt poor) we had to move to Bosque Blvd. in Waco. $275/mo. including utilities does not land one in a great neighborhood.
One day there was a killing at the basketball court. The deceased was placed into a body bag and left on the court for two days until someone was found to take the body.

Our guy was named Dennis. Loony tunes with a kleptomaniac tendency. One day my wife got home first and found him rummaging around in boxes that were under the carport. She screamed at him and he walked away. I got home right after this incident and seeing her visibly upset, I called the law. We had already lost any item that was left in the yard, so this was the last straw.

The Cops picked him up and brought him to the house so that I could positively identify him. After he was put back into the squad car, one of the cops told me about the history of Dennis. He had apparently taken a fist full of LSD tabs that had messed him up permanently. He was about 30 y/o and still lived with his Mother, who was on her death bed.

They said that he had been arrested numerous times for stealing. He would always do time to cover his fine. They finally decided that arresting him was a waste of time and money. They told me to keep things out of the yard, that he had never been arrested for burglary or breaking and entering. It was a basic throwing up of the hands, meaning we don't know what to do with his sorry ass.
 
Re: US investigating jail where black man died after being held for months over $5 [W

Thoreau72 said:
I commented ONLY about your easy use of the word "war" as a way to solve the problem. That's all. Otherwise I agree with you, but will repeat that the problem we both agree exists manifests all across the country, not just in one or two states or jurisdictions.

FYI, just last week I visited an old friend who has been in prison since about 1995. I've been visiting him since he's been in. He is one of the many geriatric prisoners over 70 years of age. At the prisons he has been in here in the State of Florida, conditions are not nearly as bad as you might think. He has never been attacked or raped in those years.

As a taxpayer, I object to my tax dollars being wasted on geriatric patients who are threats to nobody at all. Some with walkers, some in wheelchairs, those guys don't need to be in anymore, but I digress. :peace
Click to expand...

I agree with you re geriatric patients. And the prison itself makes a difference. My cousin is a guard at a medium security Federal prison. He manages the prisoners in the prison's factory so I imagine they are the cream of the population. He's a happy go lucky redneck, but a no-nonsense kinda guy. And if I had to guess, I'd say the prisoners respect and like him. THAT population seems far removed from some of the descriptions I wrote about. They should all be that "safe."
 
Re: US investigating jail where black man died after being held for months over $5 [W

d0gbreath said:
So the wife agrees?
Click to expand...

yes, wife is always in agreement. except when i spoil the tomato paste :)
 
Re: US investigating jail where black man died after being held for months over $5 [W

RetiredUSN said:
Virginia lacks the beds for new patients. It can takes months for a patient to get in.

Virginia Senator Creigh Deeds was almost stabbed to death by his own son while waiting to get him into a facility.

The Sheriff's Dept. was waiting on a opening while this was happening.
Click to expand...

It can take months to get in if a judge orders it, but if you(F) dont have that going for you you might never get in, because court order admits have priority. Our mental health system is discussing and inhumane and almost no one seems to care.
 
Re: US investigating jail where black man died after being held for months over $5 [W

d0gbreath said:
When I was in college (dirt poor) we had to move to Bosque Blvd. in Waco. $275/mo. including utilities does not land one in a great neighborhood.
One day there was a killing at the basketball court. The deceased was placed into a body bag and left on the court for two days until someone was found to take the body.

Our guy was named Dennis. Loony tunes with a kleptomaniac tendency. One day my wife got home first and found him rummaging around in boxes that were under the carport. She screamed at him and he walked away. I got home right after this incident and seeing her visibly upset, I called the law. We had already lost any item that was left in the yard, so this was the last straw.

The Cops picked him up and brought him to the house so that I could positively identify him. After he was put back into the squad car, one of the cops told me about the history of Dennis. He had apparently taken a fist full of LSD tabs that had messed him up permanently. He was about 30 y/o and still lived with his Mother, who was on her death bed.

They said that he had been arrested numerous times for stealing. He would always do time to cover his fine. They finally decided that arresting him was a waste of time and money. They told me to keep things out of the yard, that he had never been arrested for burglary or breaking and entering. It was a basic throwing up of the hands, meaning we don't know what to do with his sorry ass.
Click to expand...

THis guy was order to a hospital, but there was no room so he was warehoused in the jail, which I can imagine the jailers were none too happy about. Here in Washington nobody seemed to care till we started used emergency rooms as warehouses for those waiting for psych beds, which is even more disruptive and expensive than is using jails.
 
Re: US investigating jail where black man died after being held for months over $5 [W

Hawkeye10 said:
Reagan got in on the ground floor of this disaster:


PG 6
http://law.stanford.edu/wp-content/...hild-page/632655/doc/slspublic/Report_v12.pdf
Click to expand...

And by doing so he made the problem a lot worse.
"Between 1967 and 1975, Governor Ronald Reagan slashed funding to mental hospitals leading to a dramatic decline in the number of mentally ill individuals being treated in the hospital setting"
 
Re: US investigating jail where black man died after being held for months over $5 [W

TheDemSocialist said:
And by doing so he made the problem a lot worse.
"Between 1967 and 1975, Governor Ronald Reagan slashed funding to mental hospitals leading to a dramatic decline in the number of mentally ill individuals being treated in the hospital setting"
Click to expand...

I maintain that the important thing is that this problem has been developing for decades, a system does not work with the American people pay the price, and almost nobody has been wanting to even talk about it much less try to fix the problem. The story here is that America does not work, not even the conversation works.

We need to do better.
 
Re: US investigating jail where black man died after being held for months over $5 [W

TheDemSocialist said:
Read more @: US investigating jail where black man died after being held for months over $5

I seriously hope justice is done in this case. The prison industrial complex in this country is in need of serious reform and this is just another example to why its in need of reform.
Click to expand...

That wasn't a "prison industry" issue. It was a mental health issue combined with the fact that we no longer have a system where the people who need mental health assistance can go. The lack of such a system puts those individuals into a prison system which is ill equipped to deal with that kind of problem.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom