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Merkel's call for burqa ban in Germany draws backlash

joG said:
That is a false argument by lumping many things into one basket. My question to you is, why do you revert to such transparent populism?
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What is false about it?
 
RabidAlpaca said:
What you said is completely nonsensical. Burqas and ski masks are for any practical purpose the exact same thing and what does that have to do with stealing fruit?
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Walk into a bank with a ski mask on see what happens
 
DA60 said:
Legal identification my require her to remove it.

But otherwise, she should be able to cover her face if she wishes.
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Masking one's identity in public is problematic in Western culture. An added challenge to law enforcement and society in general.

Sometimes it is necessary and can't be avoided. (scarves/stocking masks in blizzard conditions).


Burqas are not "necessary" and can be avoided.
 
Gaius46 said:
Are ski masks a security threat? Gonna make all those skiers at German ski resorts freeze their noses off?
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Remember that a burqa is not just a symbol of religion, it is mostly a symbol of man's dominance over women in the name of religion. I believe more governments with the support of the people should ban this type of slavery. You might not agree, but imagine how many women have to suffer in silence because of this religion. You might think they say nothing because they are happy. But maybe they say nothing because they are scared. Let us speak for them. Certainly women here in the US who once were held in similar light with men here in the US, understand what it is like to suffer in silence. It takes the courage of people like Angela Merkel to give these women a voice.
 
EvaPeron said:
Remember that a burqa is not just a symbol of religion, it is mostly a symbol of man's dominance over women in the name of religion. I believe more governments with the support of the people should ban this type of slavery. You might not agree, but imagine how many women have to suffer in silence because of this religion. You might think they say nothing because they are happy. But maybe they say nothing because they are scared. Let us speak for them. Certainly women here in the US who once were held in similar light with men here in the US, understand what it is like to suffer in silence. It takes the courage of people like Angela Merkel to give these women a voice.
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You make some excellent points.

Begs the question....Where to Feminist/Women's Rights groups come down on the issue? Shouldn't we be expecting them to forcefully be coming out in support of the burqa banning??
 
EvaPeron said:
Remember that a burqa is not just a symbol of religion, it is mostly a symbol of man's dominance over women in the name of religion. I believe more governments with the support of the people should ban this type of slavery. You might not agree, but imagine how many women have to suffer in silence because of this religion. You might think they say nothing because they are happy. But maybe they say nothing because they are scared. Let us speak for them. Certainly women here in the US who once were held in similar light with men here in the US, understand what it is like to suffer in silence. It takes the courage of people like Angela Merkel to give these women a voice.
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A confederate flag is a symbol of slavery, treason, and oppression.
 
Deuce said:
A confederate flag is a symbol of slavery, treason, and oppression.
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To some maybe. To others it has a notably different meaning..
 
pragmatic said:
To some maybe. To others it has a notably different meaning..
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Interesting. I wonder if this concept has applications elsewhere.
 
Deuce said:
Interesting. I wonder if this concept has applications elsewhere.
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It could very well indeed.

But then why cannot Germans just turn to these burqa wearing migrants and say 'we think that article of clothing is a symbol of values which does not fit our values. As such, you cannot wear it.'
Why must Germans be asked to adjust their values, as opposed to asking such migrants to adjust theirs?
 
Merkel was talking about the niqab, a face veil, not the burka, a body condom.
 
EvaPeron said:
Remember that a burqa is not just a symbol of religion, it is mostly a symbol of man's dominance over women in the name of religion. I believe more governments with the support of the people should ban this type of slavery. You might not agree, but imagine how many women have to suffer in silence because of this religion. You might think they say nothing because they are happy. But maybe they say nothing because they are scared. Let us speak for them. Certainly women here in the US who once were held in similar light with men here in the US, understand what it is like to suffer in silence. It takes the courage of people like Angela Merkel to give these women a voice.
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I agree that the burqa is about the subjugation of women. However the law is being justified on grounds of security which is clearly nonsensical.

Speaking about it from the US perspective there would be a raft of Constitutional issues with such a law and even if it were effective in achieving, or helping to achieve, the end of making those women's lives better - something I'm skeptical of - that end doesn't doesn't justify infringing the Constitution. Freedom of religion and express demand that you tolerate things you do not agree with. Thinks that are potentially hurtful to others. That's the tradeoff that has to be accepted in a free society.

If we truly believe that burqa wearing subjugates women who do not want to be subjugated we have to find other means to deal with it. Laws aren't the appropriate answer.
 
Athanasius68 said:
It could very well indeed.

But then why cannot Germans just turn to these burqa wearing migrants and say 'we think that article of clothing is a symbol of values which does not fit our values. As such, you cannot wear it.'
Why must Germans be asked to adjust their values, as opposed to asking such migrants to adjust theirs?
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This is just an echo of the same-sex marriage nonsense. "I don't approve of what another person is doing. If that person does something I don't like, my values are under attack."

I have an amazing idea: how about nobody is forced to "adjust their values." People can wear what they want, and other people can approve, disapprove, or not care. I've seen fat internet nerds with t-shirts that say "go make me a sammich woman." They're idiots. That's what my values say. I haven't adjusted my values. But they are still legally allowed to wear the shirt.
 
Deuce said:
This is just an echo of the same-sex marriage nonsense. "I don't approve of what another person is doing. If that person does something I don't like, my values are under attack."

I have an amazing idea: how about nobody is forced to "adjust their values." People can wear what they want, and other people can approve, disapprove, or not care. I've seen fat internet nerds with t-shirts that say "go make me a sammich woman." They're idiots. That's what my values say. I haven't adjusted my values. But they are still legally allowed to wear the shirt.
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Live and let live? Nice idea.
But that needs to work both directions. The recent problems in Germany and across Western Europe seem to suggest a problem that the new migrants have in accepting such a principle.
 
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