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Federal court orders new NC legislative elections in 2017

danarhea

danarhea

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Raleigh, N.C. — North Carolina lawmakers must redraw their legislative districts by March 15 and hold new elections by the end of next year.
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North Carolina was probably the most blatantly gerrymandered state in the Nation, with blacks packed into 28 districts. The districts were maintained by creating areas more than 10 miles long and one foot wide in order to connect black areas.

After elections are held next year, blacks will finally have representation that is proportional to their population.

This decision is also a bellwether for every other state that has been doing the same thing. Expect some big changes in the next couple of years.

Federal court orders new NC legislative elections in 2017 :: WRAL.com
 
The DNC used to love black districts. Couldn't draw enough of them. They were even a requirement of the Voting Rights Act. Then they discovered what they were doing to themselves politically and decided to blame the old racist conservatives for them.
 
danarhea said:
North Carolina was probably the most blatantly gerrymandered state in the Nation, with blacks packed into 28 districts. The districts were maintained by creating areas more than 10 miles long and one foot wide in order to connect black areas.

After elections are held next year, blacks will finally have representation that is proportional to their population.

This decision is also a bellwether for every other state that has been doing the same thing. Expect some big changes in the next couple of years.

Federal court orders new NC legislative elections in 2017 :: WRAL.com
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I'm torn on this. On one hand, I feel as if states should have the right to determine how their state should be represented. On the other hand, it seems somewhat clear that they abused this ability in order to rig the elections to favor one political party over another and did so to minimize the impact of voting by a particular race.

I guess I just don't understand why people cannot simply do the right thing and draw a map fairly to allow for open and fair elections (I don't care which party is doing it). Create a fair map based on the percentage of people in a given area and then actually work to convince those citizens you deserve their vote.
 
danarhea said:
North Carolina was probably the most blatantly gerrymandered state in the Nation, with blacks packed into 28 districts. The districts were maintained by creating areas more than 10 miles long and one foot wide in order to connect black areas.

After elections are held next year, blacks will finally have representation that is proportional to their population.

This decision is also a bellwether for every other state that has been doing the same thing. Expect some big changes in the next couple of years.

Federal court orders new NC legislative elections in 2017 :: WRAL.com
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Yeah...but what are the chances they just make it worse?
 
danarhea said:
North Carolina was probably the most blatantly gerrymandered state in the Nation, with blacks packed into 28 districts. The districts were maintained by creating areas more than 10 miles long and one foot wide in order to connect black areas.

After elections are held next year, blacks will finally have representation that is proportional to their population.

This decision is also a bellwether for every other state that has been doing the same thing. Expect some big changes in the next couple of years.

Federal court orders new NC legislative elections in 2017 :: WRAL.com
Click to expand...

For the record, it was the Democrats that controlled the NC General Assembly for over 140 years that drew those state level districts that are at the heart of this ruling, just as they were the ones that drew the Congressional districts that were overturned by the federal courts this year when the NAACP sued the state to change them.

It wasn't the GOP that drew those particular districts. For the record. And that's a major reason why the Obama Administration's Department of Justice Civil Rights Division approved the redrawn districts, because the originally Democratic party drawn districts were either left alone or basically left intact. Even the OP article says that the Obama Administration approved the redistricting plan.

But, the federal court and the social justice warriors are wanting to shake crap up to try to remove the GOP from control of the NC General Assembly, so here we go again. 2010 was the first time since Reconstruction that the Democrats didn't control the General Assembly in NC, and they just can't seem to get over the butt hurt they feel because of that. It's only been 6 years, but you'd think it had been over a century - oh wait, that was the Democrats.
 
Slyfox696 said:
I'm torn on this. On one hand, I feel as if states should have the right to determine how their state should be represented. On the other hand, it seems somewhat clear that they abused this ability in order to rig the elections to favor one political party over another and did so to minimize the impact of voting by a particular race.

I guess I just don't understand why people cannot simply do the right thing and draw a map fairly to allow for open and fair elections (I don't care which party is doing it). Create a fair map based on the percentage of people in a given area and then actually work to convince those citizens you deserve their vote.
Click to expand...

Please notice that the WRAL article carefully leaves out which party was responsible for the districts under consideration in the lawsuit, and subsequently ordered to be redrawn. Those particular districts were drawn decades ago by the Democrats when they were in total control of the NC General Assembly, not the Republicans. They were drawn not for political reasons, but to ensure that blacks were able to actually get blacks elected to the General Assembly to represent them in state government, not just white Democrats. The GOP left those districts alone, for the most part with only some having minor changes, which is one of the reasons that the Obama Administration's DOJ approved the redistricting plan.
 
danarhea said:
North Carolina was probably the most blatantly gerrymandered state in the Nation, with blacks packed into 28 districts. The districts were maintained by creating areas more than 10 miles long and one foot wide in order to connect black areas.

After elections are held next year, blacks will finally have representation that is proportional to their population.

This decision is also a bellwether for every other state that has been doing the same thing. Expect some big changes in the next couple of years.

Federal court orders new NC legislative elections in 2017 :: WRAL.com
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1) This only affects the state legislature, not federal Congressional districts.

2) 28 black districts out of 120 is 23% of the state delegation, compared to the 21% of the population made up of African-Americans.
 
Slyfox696 said:
I guess I just don't understand why people cannot simply do the right thing and draw a map fairly to allow for open and fair elections (I don't care which party is doing it). Create a fair map based on the percentage of people in a given area and then actually work to convince those citizens you deserve their vote.
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Really, you can't?
 
Slyfox696 said:
On one hand, I feel as if states should have the right to determine how their state should be represented.
Click to expand...
Shouldn't the people of the state decide how they are represented?

On the other hand, it seems somewhat clear that they abused this ability in order to rig the elections to favor one political party over another
Click to expand...
Its all about the power.

I guess I just don't understand why people cannot simply do the right thing
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And give up that power?
 
Slyfox696 said:
I'm torn on this. On one hand, I feel as if states should have the right to determine how their state should be represented. On the other hand, it seems somewhat clear that they abused this ability in order to rig the elections to favor one political party over another and did so to minimize the impact of voting by a particular race.
Click to expand...

Gerrymandering "in order to rig the elections to favor one political party over another" is perfectly legal and this ruling doesn't change that.

What this ruling says is that Gerrymandering strictly on the basis of race is unacceptable.

I think we can all rest assured that the Republican-controlled North Carolina legislature will figure out a way to Gerrymander the hell out of the state along some non-racial lines and do so in a manner which assures they retain their super-majority.
 
Slyfox696 said:
I'm torn on this. On one hand, I feel as if states should have the right to determine how their state should be represented. On the other hand, it seems somewhat clear that they abused this ability in order to rig the elections to favor one political party over another and did so to minimize the impact of voting by a particular race.

I guess I just don't understand why people cannot simply do the right thing and draw a map fairly to allow for open and fair elections (I don't care which party is doing it). Create a fair map based on the percentage of people in a given area and then actually work to convince those citizens you deserve their vote.
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Problem is politicians this as they can and suffer no penalty. Perhaps changes should prior to implementation, with a substantial time for public input go to the State SC.
Parties then can provide their input to the Court and if needed the Court can send it back to the Legislature for changes as needed.
Those disagreeing can if needed go to the Supreme Court
 
prometeus said:
Shouldn't the people of the state decide how they are represented?

Its all about the power.

And give up that power?
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In 2010 here in Arizona we voted in a bipartisan independent commission to redraw the districts. It went all the way to the SC.
 
azgreg said:
In 2010 here in Arizona we voted in a bipartisan independent commission to redraw the districts. It went all the way to the SC.
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There will always be exceptions, but the effort must be made and I applaud Arizona for that. If enough places did it then the exception will become the rule. What was the outcome by the way?
 
prometeus said:
There will always be exceptions, but the effort must be made and I applaud Arizona for that. If enough places did it then the exception will become the rule. What was the outcome by the way?
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Here's a quick synopsis from Wiki:

The Elections Clause of the federal constitution provides, "The Times, Places and Manner of holding Elections for Senators and Representatives, shall be prescribed in each State by the Legislature thereof." (emphasis added). Because the independent redistrict commission was created by voters through ballot initiative rather than by the legislature, the constitutionality of congressional district maps drawn by the commission was under dispute. (All agree the commission has authority to draw state district maps.) The Arizona Legislature filed suit in federal court, seeking to take back the power to draw congressional district lines. The case eventually went before the U.S. Supreme Court.
The Arizona Legislature was so confident that it would prevail in the U.S. Supreme Court that it even hired a firm to redraw the congressional district maps without waiting for the Court to make its decision.[28]
On June 29, 2015, the U.S. Supreme Court rejected the legislature's argument in Arizona State Legislature v. Arizona Independent Redistricting Commission.[29] The Court held the term "legislature" in the Elections Clause could be read broadly to mean "the power that makes laws," not just the two representative houses. Because Arizona Constitution granted voters exactly "the power that makes laws," the voters were not prohibited from adopting laws governing redistricting.[30]
The court's decision left intact the independent redistricting commission's full authority, and implicitly upheld similar commissions in other states, notably the California Citizens Redistricting Commission.[citation needed]
The Supreme Court upheld the 2010 redistricting in Harris v. Arizona Independent Redistricting Commission.[31]
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redistricting_in_Arizona
 
Beaudreaux said:
Please notice that the WRAL article carefully leaves out which party was responsible for the districts under consideration in the lawsuit, and subsequently ordered to be redrawn.
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Why? How does that change anything I said?

Those particular districts were drawn decades ago by the Democrats when they were in total control of the NC General Assembly, not the Republicans.
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The state was redistricted in 2011. If what you are saying is true (and I don't care enough to verify right now), then those districts could have easily been redrawn just a few years ago by the Republican led legislature of NC. Please don't try to turn this into a Republican vs. Democrat argument. My post had nothing to do with either party in particular, but rather the state itself.
Van Basten said:
Really, you can't?
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Good point. I can understand why they do it, I just think it makes them awful people. And I have a hard time understanding awful people.
prometeus said:
Shouldn't the people of the state decide how they are represented?
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Isn't that what I said?

Its all about the power.

And give up that power?
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I know it is. While my comment comes off as naive, I'm not naive. I just despise corruption.
soot said:
Gerrymandering "in order to rig the elections to favor one political party over another" is perfectly legal and this ruling doesn't change that.

What this ruling says is that Gerrymandering strictly on the basis of race is unacceptable.
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Which is why I included the comment about race in my post. You should have kept bolding.

I think we can all rest assured that the Republican-controlled North Carolina legislature will figure out a way to Gerrymander the hell out of the state along some non-racial lines and do so in a manner which assures they retain their super-majority.
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I'm sure they will. Because the idea of simply drawing districts fairly is a threat to power.

And to my partisan friend from above, I'm sure Democrats would/will/have done the same.
 
prometeus said:
I must have misunderstood. I was under the impression that you meant "the state" as inits elected officials, not the people of the state. Thanks for clarifying.
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Sorry, I meant the state as in the legislators, who are elected by the people. It's cool. :)
 
Beaudreaux said:
Please notice that the WRAL article carefully leaves out which party was responsible for the districts under consideration in the lawsuit, and subsequently ordered to be redrawn. Those particular districts were drawn decades ago by the Democrats when they were in total control of the NC General Assembly, not the Republicans. They were drawn not for political reasons, but to ensure that blacks were able to actually get blacks elected to the General Assembly to represent them in state government, not just white Democrats. The GOP left those districts alone, for the most part with only some having minor changes, which is one of the reasons that the Obama Administration's DOJ approved the redistricting plan.
Click to expand...

The last redrawing of districts was after the 2010 census.
 
Beaudreaux said:
For the record, it was the Democrats that controlled the NC General Assembly for over 140 years that drew those state level districts that are at the heart of this ruling, just as they were the ones that drew the Congressional districts that were overturned by the federal courts this year when the NAACP sued the state to change them.

It wasn't the GOP that drew those particular districts. For the record. And that's a major reason why the Obama Administration's Department of Justice Civil Rights Division approved the redrawn districts, because the originally Democratic party drawn districts were either left alone or basically left intact. Even the OP article says that the Obama Administration approved the redistricting plan.

But, the federal court and the social justice warriors are wanting to shake crap up to try to remove the GOP from control of the NC General Assembly, so here we go again. 2010 was the first time since Reconstruction that the Democrats didn't control the General Assembly in NC, and they just can't seem to get over the butt hurt they feel because of that. It's only been 6 years, but you'd think it had been over a century - oh wait, that was the Democrats.
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What are you talking about? It isn't the subject at hand, which is how the districts exist today as drawn in 2011, after the 2010 census, by the Republican General Assembly. They are one's getting their wrists slapped.

Perhaps you are trying a clever way to offload the blame on the Dems.... but, it ain't clever if reasonably informed people see through your feeble attempt at obfuscation.
 
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upsideguy said:
What are you talking about? It isn't the subject at hand, which is how the districts exist today as drawn in 2011, after the 2010 census, by the Republican General Assembly. They are one's getting their wrists slapped.

Perhaps you are trying a clever way to offload the blame on the Dems.... but, it ain't clever if reasonably informed people see through your feeble attempt at obfuscation.
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That ^^^ is what I'm talking about, and why I posted what I did. Because people may get the wrong impression that the GOP drew the state General Assembly districts that were at the heart of the court order, just as the GOP was not the party that drew the US Congressional districts that were ordered changed earlier this year.

I just wanted to make sure that people knew the truth, rather than the implied untruth given that the article in the OP didn't mention GOP or Democratic party being the political party responsible for the drawing of those particular districts.

A mistake that even your post above makes.

That's what I'm talking about. The truth. Making assumptions not in evidence as your post did, is true obfuscation regarding the true responsible party.
 
Beaudreaux said:
That ^^^ is what I'm talking about, and why I posted what I did. Because people may get the wrong impression that the GOP drew the state General Assembly districts that were at the heart of the court order, just as the GOP was not the party that drew the US Congressional districts that were ordered changed earlier this year.

I just wanted to make sure that people knew the truth, rather than the implied untruth given that the article in the OP didn't mention GOP or Democratic party being the political party responsible for the drawing of those particular districts.

A mistake that even your post above makes.

That's what I'm talking about. The truth. Making assumptions not in evidence as your post did, is true obfuscation regarding the true responsible party.
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Why are you bringing up US Congressional districts here? Those aren't the ones in contention. The NC legislative districts are.
 
Beaudreaux said:
For the record, it was the Democrats that controlled the NC General Assembly for over 140 years that drew those state level districts that are at the heart of this ruling, just as they were the ones that drew the Congressional districts that were overturned by the federal courts this year when the NAACP sued the state to change them.

It wasn't the GOP that drew those particular districts. For the record. And that's a major reason why the Obama Administration's Department of Justice Civil Rights Division approved the redrawn districts, because the originally Democratic party drawn districts were either left alone or basically left intact. Even the OP article says that the Obama Administration approved the redistricting plan.

But, the federal court and the social justice warriors are wanting to shake crap up to try to remove the GOP from control of the NC General Assembly, so here we go again. 2010 was the first time since Reconstruction that the Democrats didn't control the General Assembly in NC, and they just can't seem to get over the butt hurt they feel because of that. It's only been 6 years, but you'd think it had been over a century - oh wait, that was the Democrats.
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You are wrong here. The ones in question were redrawn and those are the ones that were challenged.

If the Republicans won in 2010 under those districts, then what are they scared of when it comes to changing them up? They should be able to win under the new, more fair district setups.

Here is some more info on this.

Appeals court find racial gerrymandering in NC legislative districts | News & Observer

"Thirty-one voters sued over the districts, saying that the maps needlessly increased percentages of black voters in districts where voters were already electing candidates of their choice. The lawsuit said the legislature in its 2011 redistricting adopted nine majority-black Senate districts where previously none were majority black, and 23 majority-black House districts where previously 10 were majority black."

As for the Congressional redistricting, that one saw some changes as well in the two districts that were ruled as racially gerrymandered. It was not just the Democrats.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Carolina%27s_congressional_districts

The two ruled as having to be redistricted here are 1 and 12. That would be the burgundy one in north east NC, just north of Raleigh and the pinkish-purple one that looks like a river right around Charlotte.
 
roguenuke said:
Why are you bringing up US Congressional districts here? Those aren't the ones in contention. The NC legislative districts are.
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Because it's the same people that both drew those districts in the first place and then sued in federal court to get them changed.
 
Beaudreaux said:
Because it's the same people that both drew those districts in the first place and then sued in federal court to get them changed.
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No, it wasn't and you haven't shown it was. You've made the claim, but failed to support it. Those districts, both the congressional and the state legislative districts, were changed after 2010, and that change is what was claimed as unconstitutionally racially biased. The two congressional districts that I pointed out were clearly changed after 2010 in odd ways. So please show that it was the older areas of those districts that were the issue, that were deemed unconstitutional, rather than the changes made by the Republican majority.
 
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