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[R.I.P.] RIP Fidel Castro [W:9, 60]

Re: RIP Fidel Castro

Gill said:
Not true. He sent Khrushchev a cable explicitly asking the Soviets to attack the U.S. with nuclear weapons.
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Sure, but he was nothing on the global playing field, merely a tool.
 
Re: RIP Fidel Castro

Fishking said:
Sure, but he was nothing on the global playing field, merely a tool.
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Didn't stop him from trying though did it??

During the missile crisis, he was everything on the global playing field.
 
Re: RIP Fidel Castro

Fishking said:
Sure, but that wasn't really all on Cuba. A large share of the blame goes to the U.S. itself for putting nukes in Turkey and Italy so Russia felt the need to respond. Without that it may never have happened.
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Castro could have stopped the whole thing with one word...NO.
It WAS all on him, and he had the power to tell the Soviets NO, DO NOT put those missiles in Cuba.
he did not, and therefore he DID have the power to stop the whole thing, but chose not to.
Note also it was the US and Soviet Union that kept the peace, NOT Fidel.

I think he would have enjoyed seeing the world in flames over Cuba.

All that aside...I still enjoy reading about how his rag tag army became an army and the tactics & equipment they used.
I love how they converted single shot shotguns into grenade launchers & partial flame throwers.
I love reading how they used scoped hard hitting caliber rifles to keep entire units pinned down while small groups of his followers moved against a larger force.
I love reading about how he had such an involved and widespread intelligence network that kept him informed if any OPFOR unit sneezed or took a crap at an unscheduled time.

These things should be taught in all military academies the world over.
It is genius and should not be trivialized due to politics.
 
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Re: RIP Fidel Castro

flogger said:
26th September 1983 ?

Stanislav Petrov ?

Am I warm ? :)
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That is the one we all can talk about.
That guy even got a medal for Germany, if I recall.

This happened before the red phones, was heavily documented, and equally heavily hushed up....FIRMLY.
It happened before I was in the Navy, but my instructors were elbow deep in it and its aftermath.
I also saw with my own eyes the evidence, and the proof of what is now, and will remain a "mystery" until it is decided it not remain a "mystery".
It also set in motion all manner of other global events that year the world over.

You can guess all day long. Everyone is free to guess.
My job is to neither confirm nor deny.
Even though I denied your first guess. That is a matter of record in several countries, so I feel good in that call.
That heroic man should be given a Nobel Peace Prize. He really put in balls in a vice with that call.
 
Re: RIP Fidel Castro

RetiredNSmilin said:
YES, you are absolutely correct.

but...(you just knew there was a butt coming, right...LOL)

but...if CASTRO said NO, it would not have happened at all.
He alone could have said NO, and that would have been that.

The Soviets might have installed them in some other friendly central American or South American country later on to counter our dumbassed move.
Later they had the range, but at the time, I think, but do not know, that the range of their missiles was not that long.
Hence them picking Cuba as a good place to put them.
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Right, but Cuba really have much anywhere else to go. What else do you think someone would do if they were subjected to coup and assassination attempts? Find someone bigger to try and beat up the other person is about the only thing left.

It is interesting to listen to veterans that were involved in this at that time.
One US ARMY sergeant who went in on the Bay of Pigs told me he was picked up by a Navy PT boat.
On their way out, the Cubans were shooting at them and cussing at them in English.
Some even wading out in the surf as they went away in the PT boat.

Sarge asked the PT Boat skipper if he felt like showing them what a 100% US military force can do.
The skipper said HELL YES, as he kicked it in a tight turn and swung the bow around and ran straingth at them.
He pointed to one of the .50 caliber twin mounts and told the Sarge, be my guest.

Those Cubans did not know what hit them.
Some died right there in the water, and others died trying to run back out of the surf, as others died in the surf and on the beach.
They swept the beach back and forth until there was no longer any return fire.
He said the skipper counted about over 30 bodies in and around that beach.
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Not surprising. The U.S. military has a long tradition of having a completely different mentality than the militaries of almost any other nation. This is a pretty cool read.

A French Soldier's View of US Soldiers in Afghanistan - In Military

Another less Rambo story was from my LPO at the first squadron I was assigned.
He was kinda short, and was on a destroyer and ordered to be on the ship's boarding party.
he lost some of his clothes in a laundry accident and bought some that were a bit too big.

Anyway, there he is all looking tough as they are lined up to board and inspect a Soviet cargo ship.
He is small and the BAR weapon they gave him was huge.
to compound matters, his pants fell down around his ankles out there on deck in full sight of everyone.

So there he is, dungarees all around his ankles, holding this huge BAR, and having the stupidest look of embarrassment on his face.
The Soviet sailors on the other ship were laughing their ass off.

he never was assigned to the boarding party again, and he was relieved on the spot.
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These are the stories those of us who served actually live for, lol. This was something he will have never been allowed to forget, nor should he.
 
Re: RIP Fidel Castro

RetiredNSmilin said:
That heroic man should be given a Nobel Peace Prize. He really put in balls in a vice with that call.
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Absolutely !

I shudder to think what the world would look like today had some other guy been the silo chief that day.
 
Re: RIP Fidel Castro

shrubnose said:
Who vomited,Obama or you?

Fill us in with all of the corn and sausage details.

:lol:
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By the way, does this site have a search function? I can't remember how many time you shot of your big mouth along the lines of " get used to it-President Hillary Clinton".
LAffriot.
 
Re: RIP Fidel Castro

Manc Skipper said:
He swore he'd live to see America destroyed. You elected Trump, he died. RIP Fidel.
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USSR, China , Eastern Europe, Van jones ( snicker) Venezuela, Bernie Sanders( snicker)
Thankfully , he lived long to see everything he believed in to be thrown on the scrap heap of history.
 
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Re: RIP Fidel Castro

Fishking said:
Right, but Cuba really have much anywhere else to go. What else do you think someone would do if they were subjected to coup and assassination attempts? Find someone bigger to try and beat up the other person is about the only thing left.



Not surprising. The U.S. military has a long tradition of having a completely different mentality than the militaries of almost any other nation. This is a pretty cool read.

A French Soldier's View of US Soldiers in Afghanistan - In Military



These are the stories those of us who served actually live for, lol. This was something he will have never been allowed to forget, nor should he.
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Thank you for the compliments, and for the link.
I do not have time to read it now, but will later tonight.

I wish all back & forth on DP was as pleasant as what we just had.

We disagreed, made our point, and shared a few stories.

I do not think it was hard for either of us to do, but I think mutual RESPECT is what you need when first starting a repore with someone.
Just because you have formed a different view of historical and political events than I, does not mean you have horns growing out of your head, and you eat children for dinner.
 
Re: RIP Fidel Castro

RetiredNSmilin said:
Thank you for the compliments, and for the link.
I do not have time to read it now, but will later tonight.

I wish all back & forth on DP was as pleasant as what we just had.

We disagreed, made our point, and shared a few stories.

I do not think it was hard for either of us to do, but I think mutual RESPECT is what you need when first starting a repore with someone.
Just because you have formed a different view of historical and political events than I, does not mean you have horns growing out of your head, and you eat children for dinner.
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But what if you do (they taste like chicken, btw)?

I usually follow a method that mirrors whoever I'm responding to. If someone writes something thoughtful and reasoned then I do that but if it's ridiculous I give it back. It's kind of petty but I've been doing message boards so long that I know the drill. I will get over any past angst though.

My wife was a squid, btw. We met in joint service training. She got to be on the final voyage of the JFK when it ran over a dhow in the Persian Gulf and the CO got fired, lol.
 
Re: RIP Fidel Castro

Gill said:
Didn't stop him from trying though did it??

During the missile crisis, he was everything on the global playing field.
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Well, sure. What would you do if you were just a little guy that was subjected to coup and assassination attempts? Try and get someone bigger than you to fight the other person.
 
.......................withdrawn.
 
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Re: RIP Fidel Castro

shrubnose said:
What will happen in Cuba after all of the Castro family have gone to their rewards?

Any ideas on that?
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Well , I hope i'm wrong but I think that 50 years from now it might well look like the rest of the third world countries. Poverty stricken masses , rampant leadership corruption , etc

People might say , well , that's what it was like under the Castros anyway............. but somethings to remember

For a third world nation to provide a home , , free education and universal healthcare to everyone of its citizens is as rare as rocking horse sh*t in this world.

Did it have its issues/faults ? Absolutely. How different things would have been had the revolution not been under sustained and violent attack since its inception , unfortunately , will remain unknown.

What scares the rulers of the world is any attempt at independent nationalism. That was Castros unforgivable crime as far as the US was concerned imo

I hope I am wrong WRT the future of the Cuban masses
 
Re: RIP Fidel Castro

Mac77 said:
No, I think it is possible for conservative policy makers to make mistakes too.

But recognizing the enemy of Castro was not one of those mistakes
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You have bought into the oldest Western trick in the book.......... we make mistakes whilst the others commit crimes. It's the same whether Gops or Dems are in power , or Labour or Conservatives in the UK
 
Re: RIP Fidel Castro

KLATTU said:
USSR, China , Eastern Europe, Van jones ( snicker) Venezuela, Bernie Sanders( snicker)
Thankfully , he lived long to see everything he believed in to be thrown on the scrap heap of history.
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This is an RIP thread.
 
Re: RIP Fidel Castro

RIP? Are you kidding me? He was a brutal dictator. Why do you think millions fled Cuba? I believe he is in Hell right now. RIP...indeed.
 
Re: RIP Fidel Castro

Fishking said:
Well, sure. What would you do if you were just a little guy that was subjected to coup and assassination attempts? Try and get someone bigger than you to fight the other person.
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He wasn't asking for the Soviets to "fight the other person". He was asking them to cause the destruction of most of the world and the people in it. He knew that 90% of his island would be a waste land, but he didn't care.
 
Re: RIP Fidel Castro

Gill said:
He wasn't asking for the Soviets to "fight the other person". He was asking them to cause the destruction of most of the world and the people in it. He knew that 90% of his island would be a waste land, but he didn't care.
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He was asking One Big Guy to stand up for him against the the Other Big Guy right next door, y'know the one who had already tried to break into his house and kill him.

If he was trying "to cause the destruction of most of the world and the people in it", then so were the Americans, the Soviets, etc., who had militaries bristling with the things.

No. The thing with nuclear weapons is that you can't actually use them. They exist for their deterrent effect. Castro wished to deter a CIA and a US Mafia hellbent on his overthrow. So he invited the Soviets in with their missiles, just as the Americans had set up missiles along the USSR's borders, in Turkey for example. That didn't mean the US wanted "to cause the destruction of most of the world and the people in it". They wanted to contain the Soviets. Castro wanted to contain the US.

The missile thing in Cuba rapidly spun out of control and we can only be thankful that Kennedy and Krushchev kept cool heads and fought off their respective military/industrial complexes (Ike's term, not mine).
Otherwise we wouldn't be sitting here to casually debate the affair.

The Cuban Missile Crisis served both sides as a lesson about Nuclear Weapons in the Real World. It was no coincidence that nuke-limitation treaties quickly followed.

Actually saying that Castro wanted to blow up the world is verbal incontinence unsupported by historical fact.
 
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Re: RIP Fidel Castro

RetiredNSmilin said:
by allowing the Soviet Union to put short and medium range ballistic missiles in Cuba, initiating the "Cuban Missile Crisis".

I know of a few more instances we came even closer than that, but the closest I cannot say even to this day.
To this day it is still called a "mystery".

but its aftermath led to the installation of the "red phones" in the White House and the Kremlin.
We never wanted to get that close again, and put in the phones to ensure we never did.
That one was even more scary than those "13 Days in November " as some call it.

Pictured is the COLD WAR VICTORY MEDAL. A war that was considered "cold", but had shots fired and many, many casualties nonetheless.

View attachment 67210473
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Yup, add 58,000 who died in Vietnam because the USA and Soviet Union / Red China were fighting a proxy war there. The Cold War was actually quite hot in a few spots.
 
Re: RIP Fidel Castro

danarhea said:
Yup, add 58,000 who died in Vietnam because the USA and Soviet Union / Red China were fighting a proxy war there. The Cold War was actually quite hot in a few spots.
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For some reason you are forgetting the estimated 850,000 dead Vietnamese civilians, including 84,000 children.

Why do only American lives count?
 
Re: RIP Fidel Castro

RIP

 
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