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Why Vladimir Putin’s Russia Is Backing Donald Trump

Thoreau72 said:
Is it really propaganda to say that the government's reputation for mendacity is well established and well known? Is a truthful observation and statement really propaganda?

I suppose in an Orwellian world it might be.
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A reputation that rests on propaganda is not really much proof, as you would realize, if it were not your propaganda, you are defending. And the world you usually try to promote would indeed be Orwellian.
 
joG said:
A reputation that rests on propaganda is not really much proof, as you would realize, if it were not your propaganda, you are defending. And the world you usually try to promote would indeed be Orwellian.
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Are you trying to say that actually the US government is a fountain of truthful statements? Or that I only imagine it to have lied about so many things in my lifetime?
 
 
Thoreau72 said:
Are you trying to say that actually the US government is a fountain of truthful statements? Or that I only imagine it to have lied about so many things in my lifetime?
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I think that many (including yourself at times) scream "Lie!", when they think that they can gain a populist point by doing so.
 
joG said:
I think that many (including yourself at times) scream "Lie!", when they think that they can gain a populist point by doing so.
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I didn't realize I was going for populist points!

That isn't really my plan, though it is your perception. I've just been conditioned by decades of government lies. After so many, one must realize that in fact, the government lies more commonly than it tells the truth. I wish it weren't so, but I must deal with reality.
 
danarhea said:
Yes, it is pretty much cut and dried that Moscow is attempting to influence the election but, as it turns out, it is not because they support Donald Trump, but because they have a vendetta against Hillary Clinton for interfering in what they regard as Russian matters while Secretary of State. At the same time, the intelligence shows that Trump is innocent of involvement, but the Russians wanted to give an appearance of it in order to weaken Trump, should he be elected.

This, my friends is an act of war, and it is my strong belief that, whoever is elected should bring back the Cold War.

Let me make something perfectly clear. I didn't vote for either of these 2 Bozos, but whichever of them wins the election, I will still voice my opposition to anything he or she does that runs counter to what I believe in, but I will stand solidly behind the president, be it Clinton or Trump, on any sanctions or other actions they take against Russia. After all, I am an American first, and I will be damned if I will accept ANY foreign nation meddling in our political process. Make no mistake. Russia is not our friend, and Russia needs to pay a steep price for it's interference in our sovereignty.

Why Vladimir Putin?s Russia Is Backing Donald Trump
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And now he's president. Yay.
 
danarhea said:
Yes, it is pretty much cut and dried that Moscow is attempting to influence the election but, as it turns out, it is not because they support Donald Trump, but because they have a vendetta against Hillary Clinton for interfering in what they regard as Russian matters while Secretary of State. At the same time, the intelligence shows that Trump is innocent of involvement, but the Russians wanted to give an appearance of it in order to weaken Trump, should he be elected.

This, my friends is an act of war, and it is my strong belief that, whoever is elected should bring back the Cold War.

Let me make something perfectly clear. I didn't vote for either of these 2 Bozos, but whichever of them wins the election, I will still voice my opposition to anything he or she does that runs counter to what I believe in, but I will stand solidly behind the president, be it Clinton or Trump, on any sanctions or other actions they take against Russia. After all, I am an American first, and I will be damned if I will accept ANY foreign nation meddling in our political process. Make no mistake. Russia is not our friend, and Russia needs to pay a steep price for it's interference in our sovereignty.

Why Vladimir Putin?s Russia Is Backing Donald Trump
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This story is by Kurt Eichenwald, who previously claimed, falsely, that Trump got information from Russia.
He is a hack and either doesn't fact check himself or he's a liar.

In either case, his written works are subject to dismissal because of his previous history.
At this point, his claims are tin foil hat nonsense and I can't believe you people still entertain this garbage.
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
This story is by Kurt Eichenwald, who previously claimed, falsely, that Trump got information from Russia.
He is a hack and either doesn't fact check himself or he's a liar.
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Er.

Russian Officials Were in Contact With Trump Allies, Diplomat Says

MOSCOW — The Russian government maintained contacts with members of Donald J. Trump’s “immediate entourage” during the American presidential campaign, one of Russia’s top diplomats said Thursday.

“There were contacts,” Sergei A. Ryabkov, the deputy foreign minister, was quoted as saying by the Interfax news agency. “We continue to do this and have been doing this work during the election campaign,” he said.
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Thoreau72 said:
Isn't it odd to be working with an "adversary" in space projects, as we've been doing with Russia for decades?

Judging from the way we spy on "friendly" nations like Germany and so many others, listening to their leaders' cellphones and the like, we consider every other country an adversary. It's the way we roll.
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That is the truth.

I like Reagan's approach as well as Trump's. Reagan said to trust, but verify.

I assume that Trump will make a deal and use the opposite number as the partner in a business deal.

I like the idea of winning. If the other guys win too, that's no problem as we win first.

If we conduct our country's dealings as any free market exchange, one party will offer something to the other in exchange for a desired McGuffin. Both will gain value and both will say "thank you" when it's all over.

Fair dealing providing value won't create as many enemies as the fearful seem to think.
 
code1211 said:
That is the truth.

I like Reagan's approach as well as Trump's. Reagan said to trust, but verify.

I assume that Trump will make a deal and use the opposite number as the partner in a business deal.

I like the idea of winning. If the other guys win too, that's no problem as we win first.

If we conduct our country's dealings as any free market exchange, one party will offer something to the other in exchange for a desired McGuffin. Both will gain value and both will say "thank you" when it's all over.

Fair dealing providing value won't create as many enemies as the fearful seem to think.
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Or as Thomas Jefferson said, honest relations with all nations, entangling alliances with none.
 
Thoreau72 said:
Or as Thomas Jefferson said, honest relations with all nations, entangling alliances with none.
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The first part seems do-able. The second part will be harder to execute. I would favor alliances that are closer to home. Heavily

I'm not sure that NATO and SEATO of alliances of this century. Maybe they are, but the "entangling" parts seem pretty probable.

With apologies to Huxley, we are in a Brave New World. It takes very little imagination to connect the dots between that vision and today's US.

It takes about the same amount of imagination to connect the dots between the Pre-WW1 world and the world of today.

We live in interesting times.
 
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