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Rodrigo Duterte, in Japan, Calls for U.S. Troops to Exit Philippines in 2 Years

I don't think I've seen partisanship so strong, that they would find weakness in their own leader because of the actions of a mad man wannabe hopefully not soon to be dictator who's violating the very basic principles of civil society.

It speaks to the extremist disturbance these people have.

****, my president, I hate him, I absolutely loath him with a passion, but if it ever came to an international dispute between him and a foreign dictator, I'd be on the side of my country and my president.
 
joG said:
I think it is fair to say that he is a thug. But he hasn't killed and maimed as many a Assad.
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Give it time. Duterte has paid hit squads out in the streets murdering drug users and traffickers. He's still a pup in the dictator sweepstakes. Don't put it past someone like him to become Stalin-like with time.
 
Dittohead not! said:
Meanwhile, Trump is running to see if he can take that position away from Dutarte, but Little Kim already has the position sewn up.
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That's largely hyperbolic. Much as we have our partisan differences on this side of the planet, there isn't anyone close to this type of damaged mentality in western society. For all his bluster, Trump would be a slave to the Republican Congress and parrot everything they pass. He just wants the title, much like Obama.
 
Schism said:
This isn't even remotely America's problem or concern.
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Japan is a treaty ally. If the US lets them down or withdraws from its treaty obligations, then Japan is going to go super-nationalist and start building nukes. The only way to keep countries like Japan and South Korea from building their own nukes, is for the US to defend their core interests. Otherwise, don't think for a minute that they don't have the technological know-how to go nuclear. And the more countries over there that have nukes, the greater the likelihood of a nuclear shooting-war.

The US is going to have to have to find ways to keep the South China Sea from falling under Chinese control, and defend freedom of navigation through this area. Without the Philippines, that's going to be much harder.

There's a danger of a Domino Effect here. Thailand is next.
 
sanman said:
Japan is a treaty ally. If the US lets them down or withdraws from its treaty obligations, then Japan is going to go super-nationalist and start building nukes. The only way to keep countries like Japan and South Korea from building their own nukes, is for the US to defend their core interests. Otherwise, don't think for a minute that they don't have the technological know-how to go nuclear. And the more countries over there that have nukes, the greater the likelihood of a nuclear shooting-war.

The US is going to have to have to find ways to keep the South China Sea from falling under Chinese control, and defend freedom of navigation through this area. Without the Philippines, that's going to be much harder.

There's a danger of a Domino Effect here. Thailand is next.
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Most libertarians have no clue about geo politics
 
CanadaJohn said:
That's largely hyperbolic. Much as we have our partisan differences on this side of the planet, there isn't anyone close to this type of damaged mentality in western society. For all his bluster, Trump would be a slave to the Republican Congress and parrot everything they pass. He just wants the title, much like Obama.
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We do have a Constitution that limits the power of the president, which is a really good thing, particularly if we ever do elect a Trump or a Dutarte to that office.
 
sanman said:
Japan is a treaty ally. If the US lets them down or withdraws from its treaty obligations, then Japan is going to go super-nationalist and start building nukes. The only way to keep countries like Japan and South Korea from building their own nukes, is for the US to defend their core interests. Otherwise, don't think for a minute that they don't have the technological know-how to go nuclear. And the more countries over there that have nukes, the greater the likelihood of a nuclear shooting-war.

The US is going to have to have to find ways to keep the South China Sea from falling under Chinese control, and defend freedom of navigation through this area. Without the Philippines, that's going to be much harder.

There's a danger of a Domino Effect here. Thailand is next.
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Who cares? We're not the World Police, final arbiters, or defenders of the planet.
 
Dittohead not! said:
as opposed to the conservatives who started that little war in Iraq?
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Hillary voted for that one - Dubya's now endorsing her over Trump

If you Hillary lovers break it, you own it
 
Tigerace117 said:
Keeping the South China Sea open to all countries isn't really policing or bullying, sorry.
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I don't think China has ever expressed a desire to close shipping lanes in the South China Sea. They're only interested in the rights to collect resources.
 
Gaugingcatenate said:
Another foreign policy success to chalk up to the O bomba Admin, eh? Drive away an ally of how many years? Good lord, if the agenda is to weaken America on the world stage, the O bomba admin has been VERY successful. Yeah Hillary, Yeah Kerry, right?
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How exactly is this Obama or Kerry's fault? From what I understand all that happened was that the Obama administration condemned Duterte's crackdown - a perfunctory and practically meaningless move only meant to indicate that we value the rule of law and due process, and not even in the "strongly worded letter" category of meddling - after which Duterte lost his **** and decided to move the Philippines into "Chinese vassal state" status. Perhaps our only mistake was assuming that he would respond rationally to our criticism.
Schism said:
We don't. We don't need to be in Japan either.
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We are treaty-bound to provide for Japan's defense.
Schism said:
It's none of our business.
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Actually, freedom of navigation is completely in our interests even if we were a neutral power in all other affairs. If China and one of the other nations in the region goes to war, we don't want our merchant ships to be sunk by Chinese submarines.
sanman said:
The US is going to have to have to find ways to keep the South China Sea from falling under Chinese control, and defend freedom of navigation through this area. Without the Philippines, that's going to be much harder.

There's a danger of a Domino Effect here. Thailand is next.
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Hey, speaking of the Domino Effect, our increasingly warmer relationship with Vietnam means they could be a new strategic partner in Southeast Asia. Our hostility towards Hanoi was only ever because of the Cold War, and since they would be a primary victim of Chinese expansionism, this rapprochement is not at all surprising given our shared interest in containing China. Meanwhile, the fact that Duterte is reorienting his entire country's foreign policy and possibly sacrificing its independence because of hurt feelings indicates that he's stupid and capricious in addition to brutish.
 
Napoleon said:
I don't think China has ever expressed a desire to close shipping lanes in the South China Sea. They're only interested in the rights to collect resources.
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Famous last words:

"I don't think Saddam means to actually cross the border into Kuwait - he's just massing his troops for some muscle-flexing showmanship"

"I don't think the Germans are going to do much more, now that they have the Sudetenland"

:roll:

China's goal is to assert control over strategic shipping lanes passing through its neighborhood - this is part of power projection and hegemonism. They see the South China Sea as their Caribbean. The fact that these resources are located far away from the Chinese mainland and very close to the other littoral countries doesn't seem to matter to them.
 
Napoleon said:
I don't think China has ever expressed a desire to close shipping lanes in the South China Sea. They're only interested in the rights to collect resources.
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Of course they wouldn't admit it, but they've made it clear they consider the South China Sea their ocean, and part of that would undoubtedly be the right to close it if they so chose.
 
Why do you think they're setting up military installations, including missile batteries and airbases? Just for show? :doh
 
Tigerace117 said:
Of course they wouldn't admit it, but they've made it clear they consider the South China Sea their ocean, and part of that would undoubtedly be the right to close it if they so chose.
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The only reason why anyone wants the South China Sea is because of it's rich oil and natural gas deposits and for fishing. That is why 9 different countries lay claim to it.
 
Napoleon said:
The only reason why anyone wants the South China Sea is because of it's rich oil and natural gas deposits and for fishing. That is why 9 different countries lay claim to it.
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That's a pretty big "only". Especially since with all that at stake China is likely to be emboldened as months go by.
 
Tigerace117 said:
That's a pretty big "only". Especially since with all that at stake China is likely to be emboldened as months go by.
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China is going to do what it wants to do regardless of what the other 8 say. It always has.
 
Napoleon said:
The only reason why anyone wants the South China Sea is because of it's rich oil and natural gas deposits and for fishing. That is why 9 different countries lay claim to it.
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The US interest is in freedom of navigation through an extremely busy international water way.
 
Jack Hays said:
The US interest is in freedom of navigation through an extremely busy international water way.
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If that is what the US was really interested in then we wouldn't single out the Chinese and ignore acts of aggression in the same water way by the Philippines, Vietnam, Taiwan, etc.
 
Napoleon said:
If that is what the US was really interested in then we wouldn't single out the Chinese and ignore acts of aggression in the same water way by the Philippines, Vietnam, Taiwan, etc.
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Only the Chinese are building military facilities in international waters. None of the other states threatens international freedom of navigation.
 
Jack Hays said:
Only the Chinese are building military facilities in international waters. None of the other states threatens international freedom of navigation.
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Right, we have 9 different countries out there playing the nautical version of bumper cars against each other with their vessels but only 1 of them threatens freedom of navigation. China is building military facilities because its the only one of the nine with the stones to make clear that harassment of its vessels and platforms won't be tolerated.
 
Napoleon said:
Right, we have 9 different countries out there playing the nautical version of bumper cars against each other with their vessels but only 1 of them threatens freedom of navigation.
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No one but China is acting provocatively. No one but China is building facilities in international waters. Exercising freedom of navigation in international waters is not playing "bumper cars."
 
Jack Hays said:
No one but China is acting provocatively. No one but China is building facilities in international waters. Exercising freedom of navigation in international waters is not playing "bumper cars."
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That isn't true. The Philippines boards and seizes Chinese fishing vessels. Taiwan conducts live fire drills from the Spratly's to taunt Vietnam. Chinese vessels logged 1,416 incidents of Vietnamese vessels ramming them in just one area in one year. Don't tell me that China is the only one acting provocatively. They all play rough out there.
 
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