• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Roy Moore, Alabama Chief Justice, Suspended Over Gay Marriage Order

Of all the crazy emo-raging in the immediate aftermath of Obergefell, this here might top them all. FFS you're comparing a *pro slavery* ruling and worst ruling ever according to basically every legal scholar to marriage equality that was long overdue. I hate to break it to you but bigots like Moore are probably huge fans of the Dred Scott ruling

Also your "binding only on the parties involved" is truly senseless. If the Michigan couple had a constitutional right to marry and co-adopt, *of course* so does every other gay couple. What, do we need 3 million separate lawsuits, all decided by the federal courts separately?

If there is any emotional ranting here, as its "FFS" might suggest, it is your own. It's disappointing to see that on what is supposed to be a forum devoted to real debate.

Your assertion that Dred Scott v. Sandford is the "worst ruling ever according to basically every legal scholar" is basically a misstatement of fact. It's a long, complex decision, but most constitutional scholars I've seen discuss it agree that for the most part, Chief Justice Taney's legal reasoning is pretty sound. The big problem with the decision was that by making any compromise about slavery almost impossible, it helped make the Civil War inevitable.

I'll leave it to others here to compare your understanding of the details of the Dred Scott case with President Lincoln's, and then decide how much weight to give your assertion that his view of how the decision should be treated was "senseless." Certainly the Supreme Court can't enforce its decisions, as Justice Scalia, quoting Alexander Hamilton on that issue, pointed out in his dissenting opinion in Obergefell. States are free to ignore a decision, particularly if the President declines to enforce it.

I doubt that your opinion of what Chief Justice Moore thinks of Dred Scott v. Sandford is informed by any facts. It seems instead to be inspired by hatred of his views. Dred Scott is a very interesting case, not least because quite a few constitutional scholars believe it marks the very first appearance of the notorious doctrine that is now called "substantive due process."

I'm sure you know that Obergefell was a substantive due process decision. No doubt you also know about Lochner, probably the best-known SDP decision ever, and therefore understand why Chief Justice Roberts compared the majority decision in Obergefell to Lochner. He might have added Roe v. Wade, another notorious SDP turkey. Roe is so bad even Justice Ginsburg has criticized it, and the Court came close to overruling it in Casey in 1992. In Casey, the Court was no longer willing to support the majority's invention in Roe that abortion is a fundamental right located in the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment.

The Due Process Clause is not some magic bag which strident minorities and their backers may dip into whenever they like, and--presto!--pull out a brand-new "right" which suits them, even though it nullifies the votes of majorities in many states. That process is deeply undemocratic--a direct attack on the principle of self-rule on which this country was founded. However much the fact may frustrate statists, the Fourteenth Amendment did not repeal the Tenth.
 
Last edited:
Turns out you're the one who doesn't understand due process.

Maybe you think Justice Thomas's understanding of the concept of due process also pales in comparison with your own.
 
Maybe you think Justice Thomas's understanding of the concept of due process also pales in comparison with your own.

If you want to appeal to authority, I'll remind you that my opinion is backed by a majority of the Supreme Court.
 
It's not "lawless diktat." You're just mad they decided something you disagree with.

Due process was meant to protect all people in all things. It's laughable that you despise the concept.

No, not laughable. Abhorrent.

Some people simply don't care about the rights and freedoms of others. Due process, rights and the constitition is meaningless to them if it doesn't fit their "feelings" and "opinions". They can say the hell with it all, screw civility and screw their fellow americans too if it doesn't fit their subjective morals they simply don't care.

Luckily they are the minority on this issue and even better is the constitition and precedent doesn't care about feelings.
 
I'll leave it to others here to compare your understanding of the details of the Dred Scott case with President Lincoln's, and then decide how much weight to give your assertion that his view of how the decision should be treated was "senseless." Certainly the Supreme Court can't enforce its decisions, as Justice Scalia, quoting Alexander Hamilton on that issue, pointed out in his dissenting opinion in Obergefell. States are free to ignore a decision, particularly if the President declines to enforce it.

LOL wrong on every level, just ask kim davis and roy moore about that. If there were an ounce of truth to this claim there would be tons of counties where gay couples still cannot marry, but every one of them knows that to defy the Obergefell will just lead to jail/disbarment. It's the *dissenting opinion* that can't be enforced, aka that mega bigot scalia's tantrum from the grave carries no more authority than yours

i am not surprised at all to find you're a fan of dred scott. I only wonder at how many slaves roy moore wishes he owned

Btw, Ginsburg only believes they jumped the gun on Roe, in a way Obergefell did not at all. Whereas abortion remains highly controversial and contested, gay marriage had majority support and clearly only increasing in every state. It has gone from 27% support (Gallup) in 1996 to 61% as of May 2016, and about 85% among those under 30. It's a dead issue to everyone but the haters (almost entirely republicans, but even 40% of those support it). As to your whining for more debate and less "emotion," i noticed months ago that it's practically a dead issue even on this forum
 
Back
Top Bottom