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South Carolina school shooting: 2 children, 1 teacher wounded

Casper said:
Well said.

Oh, I must remind you that bringing up the dismal state of mental healthcare in the US is forbidden, just sweep it under the rug and we will just ignore it, why not, what could possible go wrong..................
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No one I know, wants it swept under the rug.

Dittohead not! said:
Yet another shooting, and yet another discussion of arms control and how armed civilians can stop shootings. We need fewer guns! No, we need more! Fewer! More!

But, guns don't kill people. Crazy people and violent people with guns kill people. Maybe it's not the issue of guns that needs to be addressed, but the numbers of crazy people and violent people on the streets.
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Bingo!
 
Crosscheck said:
As in the case of Adam Lanza we have an emotionally disturbed young man who has access to unsecure weapons at home.

Maybe we don't need to blame guns or our mental health system but rather piss poor parenting.
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There is plenty of that.

justabubba said:
yep it is cheaper to have more people with guns on the street
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Off topic.

Fiddytree said:
People need to exercise a lot more restraint. Wait for more details to come out. Gun violence conducted by persons with mental illness is, I want to say, between 2-5% of all gun violence in this country.

It's strange to think about, but it's true.
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What part of the obvious, is strange to you?

ttwtt78640 said:
Putting multiple full-time security "agents" in each and every public school is a luxury that few schools can afford. 99.9% of the time these school security nanny folks would have absolutely nothing to do and the vast majority of schools never have a "shooter" choose them as a target. It makes more sense to have existing school staff trained and armed as a "just in case" collateral duty - paid perhaps $2/hr ($4K/year?) more for that added "security" certifcaition. That makes much more sense than paying some ex-grunts $20K/year just to stand (sit?) around being totally bored in a dead end job.
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Exactly. My thing has always been to arm the janitors. They are virtually invisible to most students... and many have prior military experience.

Casper said:
Much of it being a Social issue, we have a long way to go before becoming adults.
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That's for damn sure! When we have a society who is more interested in video games, tats, piercings, Nike shoes and I phones....than anything else!

Casper said:
I disagree. Civilians that can or will carry or not as easy to find as some seem to think and they are not exactly qualified to deal with a shooter as someone trained. Afford? Take up a bond, I assure you it will pass.
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I've studied every aspect of the VA Tech Shooting and there were ample opportunities for the avg. student, or teacher, with a gun, to take the guy out. The gun is the original point and click interface. The training is mostly about when not to shoot. ;)
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Do you really think that the military somehow trains everyone to be an armed security guard?

Is that training not available elsewhere?

It is completely reasonable to train existing school staff to be armed security capable and for that staff to still perform other duties when not needed to stop active shooters (which likely will be 100% of the time).

Schools hold fire drills without the need for any full time "fire drill specialists" - because they instead train existing staff to have those skills. There is no need to add full time "active shooter specialists" to each and very school for an extremely rare, yet remotely possible, active shooter event.
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CPR is a good example. All school staff take CPR training. Don't have to be a doctor or nurse to save a life. Just like one doesn't have to be a trained cop, to take a life.


Casper said:
Nope they do not and I never claimed anything of the sort. I Suggested they get trained.

As I suggested.

I am not against teacher/staff carrying, but what do you do if no one or only a small number are willing and I said they would not be trained, not to mention not focused on that aspect, they are Teachers not security or LEO's, not a valid solution.
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I've trained many teachers, well over a 100, to shoot and shoot well and know when to shoot and when not to shoot!

Some of them do better than cops that I've trained and are better shots and have more aptitude for it.

Same for doctors and nurses, psychiatrists and psychologists. I've trained many.
 
MickeyW said:
That's for damn sure! When we have a society who is more interested in video games, tats, piercings, Nike shoes and I phones....than anything else!
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And getting high. You left that out.
 
MickeyW said:
No one I know, wants it swept under the rug.
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After the fact, before then we like to look the other way, why so many crazies are in prisons and not mental institutions and why expect LEO's to be social workers.
 
MickeyW said:
There is plenty of that.



Off topic.



What part of the obvious, is strange to you?



Exactly. My thing has always been to arm the janitors. They are virtually invisible to most students... and many have prior military experience.



That's for damn sure! When we have a society who is more interested in video games, tats, piercings, Nike shoes and I phones....than anything else!



I've studied every aspect of the VA Tech Shooting and there were ample opportunities for the avg. student, or teacher, with a gun, to take the guy out. The gun is the original point and click interface. The training is mostly about when not to shoot. ;)
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I am not against teachers carrying, but do not want to rely on them alone to deal with a shooter, there are better ways to deal with that.
 
nota bene said:
And getting high. You left that out.
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Correct......and Colorado and Oregon are complicit toward that end.

Casper said:
After the fact, before then we like to look the other way, why so many crazies are in prisons and not mental institutions and why expect LEO's to be social workers.
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True.
We had a guy in our jail for two years, in the 80s, on a murder charge, but he was bat**** crazy and not fit to stand trial. Due to some gobbledygook, techno speak, he did not meet the criteria to be committed and housed at the state hospital.
The Sheriff was finally able to get around the hurdles and we shipped him to the hospital where he remains to this day.

Casper said:
I am not against teachers carrying, but do not want to rely on them alone to deal with a shooter, there are better ways to deal with that.
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Examples please?
 
MickeyW said:
Correct......and Colorado and Oregon are complicit toward that end.


True.
We had a guy in our jail for two years, in the 80s, on a murder charge, but he was bat**** crazy and not fit to stand trial. Due to some gobbledygook, techno speak, he did not meet the criteria to be committed and housed at the state hospital.
The Sheriff was finally able to get around the hurdles and we shipped him to the hospital where he remains to this day.



Examples please?
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Amazing that someone is not considered fit to stand trial yet not crazy enough to institutionalize, good grief seems like the system has a problem. I even feel for the other prisoners think about being lock in a cell with someone that has lost all their screws.

I am speaking of armed and trained security in all our schools, people that's only duty is protect our children.
 
MickeyW said:
There is plenty of that.



Off topic.



What part of the obvious, is strange to you?



Exactly. My thing has always been to arm the janitors. They are virtually invisible to most students... and many have prior military experience.



That's for damn sure! When we have a society who is more interested in video games, tats, piercings, Nike shoes and I phones....than anything else!



I've studied every aspect of the VA Tech Shooting and there were ample opportunities for the avg. student, or teacher, with a gun, to take the guy out. The gun is the original point and click interface. The training is mostly about when not to shoot. ;)
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[emphasis added by bubba]
it appears you agree with me:
"it is cheaper to have more people with guns on the street"
 
Casper said:
Amazing that someone is not considered fit to stand trial yet not crazy enough to institutionalize, good grief seems like the system has a problem. I even feel for the other prisoners think about being lock in a cell with someone that has lost all their screws.

The guy was in solitary isolation for the entire time....

I am speaking of armed and trained security in all our schools, people that's only duty is protect our children.
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Too costly, and the teachers too greedy. The damn SEIU comes first ya know.
 
Casper said:
After the fact, before then we like to look the other way, why so many crazies are in prisons and not mental institutions and why expect LEO's to be social workers.
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Back when I started in police work, decades ago, in addition to my enumerated duties, I was also a social worker, mental health worker, tour guide, father figure, teacher, athlete and sex symbol.(Many women only see the uniform and not the man)
 
MickeyW said:
Back when I started in police work, decades ago, in addition to my enumerated duties, I was also a social worker, mental health worker, tour guide, father figure, teacher, athlete and sex symbol.
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Much of which I assume you had to learn OJT. Oh, except sex symbol, ya either got it or ya don't.:lol:
 
Casper said:
Much of which I assume you had to learn OJT. Oh, except sex symbol, ya either got it or ya don't.:lol:
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Correct.....OJT......we had no training in any of that and what they teach you in high school or college....or at the academy... does not prepare one for day to day police work.
Basically, many departments will tell you ..........when you graduate from the police academy and start your first week at work...."forget what they just taught you at the academy and do the job the way we tell you to do it."

That's why those who say "a cop who has not gone to college can't be a good cop." Absolute BS is what that is. College defines the laws and preps one for climbing the ladder of success and promotions, beyond that, it does nothing to prepare you for the daily solutions on social issues.
All that college and academy crap is thrown out the window, when you arrive at a domestic dispute, bank robbery, child abuse case or multiple fatalities at a traffic accident scene.
 
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MickeyW said:
Correct.....OJT......we had no training in any of that and what they teach you in high school or college....or at the academy... does not prepare one for day to day police work.
Basically, many departments will tell you ..........when you graduate from the police academy and start your first week at work...."forget what they just taught you at the academy and do the job the way we tell you to do it."

That's why those who say "a cop who has not gone to college can't be a good cop." Absolute BS is what that is. College defines the laws and preps one for climbing the ladder of success and promotions, beyond that, it does nothing to prepare you for the daily solutions on social issues.
All that college and academy crap is thrown out the window, when you arrive at a domestic dispute, bank robbery, child abuse case or multiple fatalities at a traffic accident scene.
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I agree 100%, the military is about the same, meaning that you may haven learned the basics now do you job the way we show you how to do it. I never understood the college requirements for officers, we are hiring Law Enforcement Officers not Lawyers, good grief if they can make through the screening process and are proficient in what they are taught hire them.
 
Casper said:
I agree 100%, the military is about the same, meaning that you may haven learned the basics now do you job the way we show you how to do it. I never understood the college requirements for officers, we are hiring Law Enforcement Officers not Lawyers, good grief if they can make through the screening process and are proficient in what they are taught hire them.
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Exactly! College only bumped my pay scale and enhanced my chances for promotion.......it never enabled me to do a better job.
 
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