• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Donald Trump knows someone who knows how to stop Chicago crime

JasperL said:
OK, I get it, you're just in the mood to spew right wing drivel blaming libruls for everything. The "rats" stuff should have clued me in but I'm a bit slow this evening. Sorry I bothered to respond! :roll:
Click to expand...
Except its not 'talking points'. Its the actual liberal claptrap that occurs daily. And the end results...well...thats full on display. 454 dead bodies and counting...already surpassing last years total with 4 full months to go.
 
What a moron. I can't help by feel consternated by the staggering stupidity that compels someone to think as simplistically of governance. "I met an officer, and he was rough and tough". Such impeccable criteria for senior political offices.

More importantly, it didn't take him long to derail, again. This time, he's insulting some of his most fervent supporters, the police.
 
Rudy Giuliani cleaned up NYC and the left hated him for it.

A man like him couldn't do that in Chicago today because of the spineless liberal approach to crime fighting.
 
RetiredUSN said:
Rudy Giuliani cleaned up NYC and the left hated him for it.

A man like him couldn't do that in Chicago today because of the spineless liberal approach to crime fighting.
Click to expand...

No, he really didn't, and it's ludicrous to say the "left" hated him for the drop in crime.

Crime started significantly dropping before he took office, and went down across the country during the same period. He took credit for trends he likely had little to do with, and other cities not run by an egomaniac in the media capital of the world had bigger crime drops, like San Francisco. Truth is unleaded gas probably had a FAR bigger impact on crime than anything Rudy did. Certainly the "broken windows" theory of policing has been widely discredited since then.
 
apdst said:
You're wrong.
Click to expand...

No, you're wrong!

This isn't the time or place to get into a debate about the many problems with the death penalty, so I'll just say that for lots of reasons I think it's terrible policy in this era, and I've never seen any compelling evidence that it serves as a meaningful deterrent to crime.
 
JasperL said:
No, you're wrong!

This isn't the time or place to get into a debate about the many problems with the death penalty, so I'll just say that for lots of reasons I think it's terrible policy in this era, and I've never seen any compelling evidence that it serves as a meaningful deterrent to crime.
Click to expand...

Of course you won't admit that the biggest problem with the death penalty is that it isn't used enough.
 
apdst said:
Of course you won't admit that the biggest problem with the death penalty is that it isn't used enough.
Click to expand...

Well, I don't believe that to be true, because I've seen no evidence that it is true and that greatly expanding the death penalty could conceivably be the solution to our crime problem, even if we were to accept the huge downsides of the death penalty as an acceptable cost for combating crime.

So, yes, you are correct that I won't "admit" to something I think is absurd and contrary to the evidence I've seen.

Similarly, my guess is you won't admit that Obama is the greatest President of the past century, with the possible exception of FDR! :doh
 
JasperL said:
No, you're wrong!

This isn't the time or place to get into a debate about the many problems with the death penalty, so I'll just say that for lots of reasons I think it's terrible policy in this era, and I've never seen any compelling evidence that it serves as a meaningful deterrent to crime.
Click to expand...

The Death Penalty is not just to deter crime it is also the ultimate punishment for those that deserve nothing less.
 
JasperL said:
Well, I don't believe that to be true, because I've seen no evidence that it is true and that greatly expanding the death penalty could conceivably be the solution to our crime problem, even if we were to accept the huge downsides of the death penalty as an acceptable cost for combating crime.

So, yes, you are correct that I won't "admit" to something I think is absurd and contrary to the evidence I've seen.

Similarly, my guess is you won't admit that Obama is the greatest President of the past century, with the possible exception of FDR! :doh
Click to expand...

You haven't seen any evidence because the death penalty hasn't been used to its full effectiveness in your lifetime. X
 
Casper said:
The Death Penalty is not just to deter crime it is also the ultimate punishment for those that deserve nothing less.
Click to expand...

True, and I have serious reservations about what is in practice revenge that is arbitrarily doled out mostly to poor people. Not to mention juries and appeals courts are fallible, the poor often get seriously inept counsel, and do not have the resources to mount an adequate defense, etc..............

I'm not a bleeding heart on this issue. There is a local case where some lowlifes kidnapped, raped, tortured and murdered two kids. I'll shed no tears or lose a moment's sleep if the ringleader is executed and/or if the others are killed in prison. They deserve that and more.

But we sit here nearly 10 years after the murder and the one person sentenced to death is still in prison, and it's hard to imagine a more deserving person for the death penalty. And in the meantime in the past decade we've had several executions of people who might be innocent, and whose crimes, if they are guilty, are certainly no more heinous than 100 or 1000s serving life or shorter sentences. So it's arbitrary, depends on the whims of the prosecutor, last years, costs a fortune in taxpayer dollars, and there is no guarantee and lots of doubt that death sentences are handed out only to the guilty. Etc.
 
apdst said:
You haven't seen any evidence because the death penalty hasn't been used to its full effectiveness in your lifetime. X
Click to expand...

I guess that's true, but I don't really see how it can be used to "its full effectiveness" without mandatory sentencing, which I oppose for all kinds of reasons, and/or the suspension of the civil rights of those accused, which is particularly unacceptable for those whose sentence is death.

You started this with this quote: "An automatic death sentence for gun crimes." OK, one case in Florida involved a woman convicted of attempted murder for firing a warning shot towards her allegedly abusive husband. Under your scheme, she receives an automatic death sentence. That's nuts. What is worse is she rejected a 3 year plea deal because she didn't think she did anything wrong. Imagine if the downside of conviction in that case is certain death - it makes fighting the charge literally a bet of your life against winning over a jury. It's just horrible policy from start to finish to require the judge to sentence her to death in that case, although it's a gun crime.
 
JasperL said:
No, he really didn't, and it's ludicrous to say the "left" hated him for the drop in crime.

Crime started significantly dropping before he took office, and went down across the country during the same period. He took credit for trends he likely had little to do with, and other cities not run by an egomaniac in the media capital of the world had bigger crime drops, like San Francisco. Truth is unleaded gas probably had a FAR bigger impact on crime than anything Rudy did. Certainly the "broken windows" theory of policing has been widely discredited since then.
Click to expand...

There was also a national push at the time to combat crime........ you know that right? Giuliani took over a much nastier situation than many other mayors did at the time. The once off limits neighborhoods became safe to walk again, and I know this first hand. The hookers and porn palaces also were cleaned up. The creeps were chased out of Central park, and I know this first hand. Times Square became the place to go again. I frequented NYC in the bad old days saw first hand how Giuliani's policies were well enforced, and made a huge difference in the city.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom