Police shoot dead deaf and mute driver 'who was trying to communicate using[W:52]

Re: Police shoot dead deaf and mute driver 'who was trying to communicate using sign

KevinKohler said:

I think part of it is, our police depts may be relying too heavily on hiring former armed forces, and these people might have ptsd.

Think about what they dealt with as soldiers, in the Middle East, then apply that to what is happening here...

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I'm a staunch believer in that. I tried to further support the belief with statistics, but sadly no federal agency keeps tracks of how many veterans end up in the police corps.

Re: Police shoot dead deaf and mute driver 'who was trying to communicate using sign

Ikari said:

Yes, but its not a license to kill.

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Of course not - I'm merely being objective by considering all the facts.

Infinite Chaos said:

Tragic story, obviously more information needs to come out and there is no video ~ if as it seems he was shot while simply trying to communicate then it's another sad day for the US but it is once again another case where different police training might have helped keep the citizen alive.

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That is sad. I wonder if a system could be implemented where there would be a symbol on the license plate indicating the driver is deaf and mute?

I could not believe what I was reading, a deaf and dum person shot dead by policemen after being pulled over, I don't care what the reason was this policemen should be sacked and up on murder charges as an example for other police to read the situation they are in properly.
Thank God I don't live in the US and your crazy gun laws.

Re: Police shoot dead deaf and mute driver 'who was trying to communicate using sign

Gaztopian said:

Tragic indeed. What I don't understand is why the police readily shoot to kill. A multitude of police shootings are unwarranted and demonstrate no real danger to the cops involved, but I'm willing to accept the excuse of adrenaline and the heat of the moment. What I won't accept, however, is the hasty use of deadly force that results in situations like this one.

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You had better accept it, because it's over and done with.

The interesting part will be to see how the system deals with yet another cold-blooded murder by an agent of the state.

Re: Police shoot dead deaf and mute driver 'who was trying to communicate using sign

faithful_servant said:

No, it;'s why when a well-trained responsible LE officer has to make a split second decision about whether someone is a threat or not, they tend to go with them being a threat. They don't have the time to do an in-depth psychological and behavioral analysis of the threat, they have to respond and respond quickly. Failure to do so may mean that they don't go home to their families at the end of their shift. Sure it's easy to use 20/20 hindsight and 2nd guess every shooting, but when you are facing the choice between the possibility of dying and the possibility of a bad shooting, just about every sane person walking God's green earth is going to pull that trigger.

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And it seems that today's training for police encourages that specious thinking you offer. What happened to the notion of police officers being PEACE OFFICERS?

Oh yeah, maybe it was the militarization of our police forces done in the names of the War On Drugs and War On Terror?

Re: Police shoot dead deaf and mute driver 'who was trying to communicate using sign

Thoreau72 said:

And it seems that today's training for police encourages that specious thinking you offer. What happened to the notion of police officers being PEACE OFFICERS?

Oh yeah, maybe it was the militarization of our police forces done in the names of the War On Drugs and War On Terror?

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What the hell does a silly label like PEACE OFFICER mean even if it's in caps? When you go to a bar fight there isn't a lot of peace and a family fight is worse.

But, one big difference is that when I went into police work I was told to expect to get hurt. If you couldn't accept that, sell shoes. That's no longer the care. Police officers going to a family fight where they have been told the wife is being beaten will sit and wait for their "cover unit" before trying to stop the fight. I remember reports of officers sitting and listening to shots being fired at Columbine High School while they waited for the SWAT team. I was on foot one night in the bar district and two young cops challenged me. "You're not allowed to walk down here by yourself. It's against the rules." "No it isn't. Show me the rule." "It's a union rule." "And I'm not in your friggin' union. That's the union rule because you can't walk down here alone."

In our department you got a medal for shooting someone. I investigated all of our shootings and all were legal but some could have been avoided. Regardless, a medal was awarded.
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But, officers who risked their lives to disarm an armed man and didn't shoot him got criticized for not showing proper officer safety. It does make you wonder.

Re: Police shoot dead deaf and mute driver 'who was trying to communicate using sign

Patrickt said:

What the hell does a silly label like PEACE OFFICER mean even if it's in caps? When you go to a bar fight there isn't a lot of peace and a family fight is worse.

But, one big difference is that when I went into police work I was told to expect to get hurt. If you couldn't accept that, sell shoes. That's no longer the care. Police officers going to a family fight where they have been told the wife is being beaten will sit and wait for their "cover unit" before trying to stop the fight. I remember reports of officers sitting and listening to shots being fired at Columbine High School while they waited for the SWAT team. I was on foot one night in the bar district and two young cops challenged me. "You're not allowed to walk down here by yourself. It's against the rules." "No it isn't. Show me the rule." "It's a union rule." "And I'm not in your friggin' union. That's the union rule because you can't walk down here alone."

In our department you got a medal for shooting someone. I investigated all of our shootings and all were legal but some could have been avoided. Regardless, a medal was awarded.
It
But, officers who risked their lives to disarm an armed man and didn't shoot him got criticized for not showing proper officer safety. It does make you wonder.

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Yes you're right--'peace officer' is about as trite and meaningless as the term 'serve and protect'. Both euphemisms meant to manipulate the gullible public.

Call me sentimental and romantic, but my grandfather was a cop in Chicago in the last century, and he was the one who got me using that silly term, peace officer. How silly of me.

Re: Police shoot dead deaf and mute driver 'who was trying to communicate using sign

Thoreau72 said:

Yes you're right--'peace officer' is about as trite and meaningless as the term 'serve and protect'. Both euphemisms meant to manipulate the gullible public.

Call me sentimental and romantic, but my grandfather was a cop in Chicago in the last century, and he was the one who got me using that silly term, peace officer. How silly of me.

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Actually, I liked "Serve and Protect" and got irritated with cops who thought "serving" was demeaning. A police officer's job is to protect people and to take risks to do it if necessary. Now, too many officers see their own safety as being paramount.

When I first started an old cop said, "You get calls cause there's a problem. When you leave, if it's better than it was when you got there you did a good job. If it's worse, you didn't do a good job."

I also have a problem with the terms someone uses to define their work. I don't go to surgeons if I can avoid it because they don't want you to get well. They just want to do surgery. Law enforcement officer is the same thing, even if it's abbreviated LEO. There's a lot more to the job than enforcing the law. Sometimes I did better for people by not enforcing the law. Sometimes people just need someone to talk to.

I took the job to get me by till I got back in college and I went back to college but I kept the job for thirty years and enjoyed maybe twenty of the thirty.

Re: Police shoot dead deaf and mute driver 'who was trying to communicate using sign

faithful_servant said:

..and another half story being treated as a whole story... Maybe it w as abad shooting, maybe it wasn't, but so far we don't have all the evidence to make a valid call either way.

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Can you name me any debateable story where ALL the facts are available? Just interested in seeing where your statement leads.

roguenuke said:

~ My main questions include why did he get out of the car and how long did the pursuit last ~

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Seems he was on his own drive or near which means he would have justification of getting out (having reached his destination) however I have also read he has a history of disputing arrest.

jmotivator said:

~ I think if anything this is an indication that more training is needed ~

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This is something I have strongly believed in, having seen all the cases of shootings at traffic incidents.

Re: Police shoot dead deaf and mute driver 'who was trying to communicate using sign

Infinite Chaos said:

Can you name me any debateable story where ALL the facts are available? Just interested in seeing where your statement leads.



Seems he was on his own drive or near which means he would have justification of getting out (having reached his destination) however I have also read he has a history of disputing arrest.



This is something I have strongly believed in, having seen all the cases of shootings at traffic incidents.

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Does he have a history of disputing arrest or does he have a history of being unable to communicate with angry police officers?

Re: Police shoot dead deaf and mute driver 'who was trying to communicate using sign

Gaztopian said:

Tragic indeed. What I don't understand is why the police readily shoot to kill. A multitude of police shootings are unwarranted and demonstrate no real danger to the cops involved, but I'm willing to accept the excuse of adrenaline and the heat of the moment. What I won't accept, however, is the hasty use of deadly force that results in situations like this one.

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One may well criticize hasty use of deadly force. I'm with you there. But we part company when you suggest not shooting to kill. Cops aren't skilled enough to shoot to wound. Maybe snipers, but I'm not sure they ever do. Cops do well to aim center mass and pray.

Re: Police shoot dead deaf and mute driver 'who was trying to communicate using sign

MaggieD said:

One may well criticize hasty use of deadly force. I'm with you there. But we part company when you suggest not shooting to kill. Cops aren't skilled enough to shoot to wound. Maybe snipers, but I'm not sure they ever do. Cops do well to aim center mass and pray.

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Yeah, real life isn't a movie and "shoot to wound" isn't really a thing.

But I have this suggestion that maybe fewer unarmed people should be shot because they aren't a threat worthy of lethal force.

Re: Police shoot dead deaf and mute driver 'who was trying to communicate using sign

Deuce said:

Does he have a history of disputing arrest or does he have a history of being unable to communicate with angry police officers?

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Don't know, the only thing is this -

Harris was found guilty of resisting an officer in 2010 when he lived in Connecticut, according to public records

Link.

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Not clear from the report if it was part of the case against him that was dismissed, if it was - you can understand an innocent man being angry at being detained and unable to explain himself.