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EXCLUSIVE: Joint FBI-US Attorney Probe Of Clinton Foundation Is Underway Read more:

Re: EXCLUSIVE: Joint FBI-US Attorney Probe Of Clinton Foundation Is Underway Read mo

Oh OC, you're thinking of Hannity's charity. 89% of CF donations went to charity

Fiorina and others are referring only to the amount donated by the Clinton Foundation to outside charities, ignoring the fact that most of the Clinton Foundation’s charitable work is performed in-house. One independent philanthropy watchdog did an analysis of Clinton Foundation funding and concluded that about 89 percent of its funding went to charity.

Where Does Clinton Foundation Money Go?

So now that you know your conservative masters lied about being the CF being corrupt (like Hannity's charity scam) then you have no reason to think CF is corrupt. Its just a damn shame that conservatives have lost all ability to think for themselves and automatically hate who they're told to hate no matter what the facts are. mmmmm, when's the last time that happened?

To achieve that number they included program budgets which includes salaries and expenses.

Hannity has nothing to do with this, he's not running for President, start a thread if you want to discuss it.
 
Re: EXCLUSIVE: Joint FBI-US Attorney Probe Of Clinton Foundation Is Underway Read mo

describe for us the evidence of illegality that has been found

we do still require evidence as a basis for criminal trial don't we ... so, please share with us the evidence that has been recovered

There's evidence of many illegalities but, the FBI doesn't think any prosecutor would take it forward. My question would be "is this enough to make it so?"

Hell, they locked up Martha Stewart for simply lying.
 
Re: EXCLUSIVE: Joint FBI-US Attorney Probe Of Clinton Foundation Is Underway Read mo

I am hoping that this will be different. The person doing the investigation is bi-partisan and very good at what he does. He has a long record of successful prosecutions or politicians. He doesn't work for the FBI. The structure of the team that is doing the investigation is different.

Yawn. Meaning that when he finds nothing you will claim he is a shill for Hillary. It really is getting tedious.
 
Re: EXCLUSIVE: Joint FBI-US Attorney Probe Of Clinton Foundation Is Underway Read mo

Yawn. Meaning that when he finds nothing you will claim he is a shill for Hillary. It really is getting tedious.

Meaning I think if he says there isn't anything then I will believe him.
 
Re: EXCLUSIVE: Joint FBI-US Attorney Probe Of Clinton Foundation Is Underway Read mo

There's evidence of many illegalities but, the FBI doesn't think any prosecutor would take it forward. My question would be "is this enough to make it so?"

Hell, they locked up Martha Stewart for simply lying.

i take it from your post that you now recognize there is no evidence of hillary's illegal activities

please correct me if my assumption is inaccurate
 
Re: EXCLUSIVE: Joint FBI-US Attorney Probe Of Clinton Foundation Is Underway Read mo

Any voter who is being honest with himself, and who has been paying attention to current events over the last 25 years is already aware of numerous demonstrations of how Hillary is corrupt and practices pay-to-play, it seems to me.

ok, let's do be honest

show us the evidence of hillary's 25 years of alleged corruption

i look forward to reading your extensive list of cites
 
Re: EXCLUSIVE: Joint FBI-US Attorney Probe Of Clinton Foundation Is Underway Read mo

we tend to focus - with good reason - what tRump needs to do differently

team hillary needs to present a very definitive plan to show the voting public how she intends to avoid even the appearance of corruption and/or pay-to-play during her administration

Well, the only way she could do that is by dropping out of the race.
 
Re: EXCLUSIVE: Joint FBI-US Attorney Probe Of Clinton Foundation Is Underway Read mo

To achieve that number they included program budgets which includes salaries and expenses.

That's entirely appropriate for an operating charity. Pick any charity you like - any church, Red Cross, St. Judes, whatever. All of them will have "salaries and expenses."
 
Re: EXCLUSIVE: Joint FBI-US Attorney Probe Of Clinton Foundation Is Underway Read mo

That's entirely appropriate for an operating charity. Pick any charity you like - any church, Red Cross, St. Judes, whatever. All of them will have "salaries and expenses."

They don't include salaries and operating budgets as part of charitable criteria. The cited source used did.
 
Re: EXCLUSIVE: Joint FBI-US Attorney Probe Of Clinton Foundation Is Underway Read mo

They don't include salaries and operating budgets as part of charitable criteria. The cited source used did.

Sure "they" do. The cited sources, plural, were organizations that evaluate charities and "they" absolutely include salaries and "expenses" whatever you meant by that. Salaries and other payroll costs are legitimate expense for any operating charity. Otherwise the only thing that counts as "charity" is the cost of food or medicine or building materials or whatever. No one counts ONLY those costs as legitimate "charitable" expenditures.

Non-profits in the U.S. employ about 12 million people, and pay salaries of roughly $500 billion.

I volunteer for a local charity that takes in the homeless, houses them, teaches them how to live sober and as responsible people. Salaries for the director and the many staff (counselors mostly) are about half our annual budget, and that's very LOW for this kind of organization. Those are absolutely "charitable" expenditures, because they are essential to accomplish our mission.
 
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Re: EXCLUSIVE: Joint FBI-US Attorney Probe Of Clinton Foundation Is Underway Read mo

Sure "they" do. The cited sources, plural, were organizations that evaluate charities and "they" absolutely include salaries and "expenses" whatever you meant by that. Salaries and other payroll costs are legitimate expense for any operating charity. Otherwise the only thing that counts as "charity" is the cost of food or medicine or building materials or whatever. No one counts ONLY those costs as legitimate "charitable" expenditures.

Non-profits in the U.S. employ about 12 million people, and pay salaries of roughly $500 billion.

I volunteer for a local charity that takes in the homeless, houses them, teaches them how to live sober and as responsible people. Salaries for the director and the many staff (counselors mostly) are about half our annual budget, and that's very LOW for this kind of organization. Those are absolutely "charitable" expenditures, because they are essential to accomplish our mission.

Charity watchdog: Clinton Foundation a ‘slush fund’ | New York Post

The Clinton Foundation’s finances are so messy that the nation’s most influential charity watchdog put it on its “watch list” of problematic nonprofits last month.

The Clinton family’s mega-charity took in more than $140 million in grants and pledges in 2013 but spent just $9 million on direct aid.

The group spent the bulk of its windfall on administration, travel, and salaries and bonuses, with the fattest payouts going to family friends.

On its 2013 tax forms, the most recent available, the foundation claimed it spent $30 million on payroll and employee benefits; $8.7 million in rent and office expenses; $9.2 million on “conferences, conventions and meetings”; $8 million on fundraising; and nearly $8.5 million on travel. None of the Clintons is on the payroll, but they do enjoy first-class flights paid for by the foundation.

In all, the group reported $84.6 million in “functional expenses” on its 2013 tax return and had more than $64 million left over — money the organization has said represents pledges rather than actual cash on hand.


Agree to disagree.
 
Re: EXCLUSIVE: Joint FBI-US Attorney Probe Of Clinton Foundation Is Underway Read mo

Sure "they" do. The cited sources, plural, were organizations that evaluate charities and "they" absolutely include salaries and "expenses" whatever you meant by that. Salaries and other payroll costs are legitimate expense for any operating charity. Otherwise the only thing that counts as "charity" is the cost of food or medicine or building materials or whatever. No one counts ONLY those costs as legitimate "charitable" expenditures.

Non-profits in the U.S. employ about 12 million people, and pay salaries of roughly $500 billion.

I volunteer for a local charity that takes in the homeless, houses them, teaches them how to live sober and as responsible people. Salaries for the director and the many staff (counselors mostly) are about half our annual budget, and that's very LOW for this kind of organization. Those are absolutely "charitable" expenditures, because they are essential to accomplish our mission.

A former employer I used to work for used to hold donation drives for the United Way charity - until there was a scandal involving fat salaries and bonuses for the executives working at that charity - then we stopped donating to them.

So tell me - do you think that people working for a charity should be earning fat paycheques? Don't you think it's a crooked misrepresentation to be collecting donations for the poor, and then spending most of that money to fatten your own wallet instead of spending it on the poor?

These days, during a major natural disaster, there are "charities" which immediately tell people "don't donate blankets, don't donate food - just donate cash! Because we can easily spend that cash near the disaster area to get people what they need! This is easier than transporting your donated blankets and food all the way there! Just give us cash please!"

Tell me - what do you think is really going on when they insist so strongly on donations for cash, instead of traditional from-the-heart donations for blankets, food, and material goods? Where do you think that cash is going? Why do you think they're so emphatic and insistent that donations be in cash form rather than in the form of material goods?

Please give me your honest answer - don't give me your standard line. :roll:
 
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Re: EXCLUSIVE: Joint FBI-US Attorney Probe Of Clinton Foundation Is Underway Read mo

A former employer I used to work for used to hold donation drives for the United Way charity - until there was a scandal involving fat salaries and bonuses for the executives working at that charity - then we stopped donating to them.

So tell me - do you think that people working for a charity should be earning fat paycheques? Don't you think it's a crooked misrepresentation to be collecting donations for the poor, and then spending most of that money to fatten your own wallet instead of spending it on the poor?

I'm not avoiding your question, but there's no good way to answer that except to say that OF COURSE salaries at a non-profit ought to be appropriate, and no, it's not OK to collect donations for the poor and pay it out in "fat" pay for the senior officers.

But that's not really the point I was trying to make. At our charity for example, the founder and director who's been there 25 years this year and works 60-80 hours a week, about 50 weeks a year gets $60k. We would need two or three to do his job, and still probably would lose. The counselors make between $20-30k, no benefits. And my point is those salary expenses are absolutely critical for our charitable mission and are clearly, obviously, qualified charitable expenditures.

These days, during a major natural disaster, many big charities immediately tell people "don't donate blankets, don't donate food - just donate cash! Because we can easily spend that cash near the disaster area to get people what they need! This is easier than transporting your donated blankets and food all the way there! Just give us cash please!"

Tell me - what do you think is really going on when they insist so strongly on donations for cash, instead of traditional from-the-heart donations for blankets, food, and material goods? Where do you think that cash is going? Why do you think they're so emphatic and insistent that donations be in cash form rather than in the form of material goods?

Please give me your honest answer - don't give me your standard line. :roll:

I pretty much know it's a logistical nightmare to get material goods from a collection center in, say, Montana or New Jersey, consolidated with 20 or 200 other collection centers, sorted, the mounds of worthless crap (jumbo can of green beans that expired in 2011, some old underwear, etc.) that people love to give and get a write off for their taxes tossed, the worthwhile stuff then loaded on a truck, shipped 1,000 miles to a disaster area, where it's then organized again with lots of other trucks, a list made of what's needed but missing, then that ordered and shipped in, then you can assemble packages and get them sent out to those in need. It's much easier, quicker, effective for those in need if they need some black beans ,rice, tuna, bottled water, baby formula, blankets, etc. to take $100,000 and buy all that, and only that, cheaply, in bulk and get that delivered in a few trucks and then assembled and distributed.

Bottom line is I don't see their preference for cash during emergency relief as a problem. That's really independent of how much they pay their executive director in salary, or should be for any legitimate charity.

FWIW, why would I ever give my "dishonest" answer :roll:
 
Re: EXCLUSIVE: Joint FBI-US Attorney Probe Of Clinton Foundation Is Underway Read mo


If that's the kind of source you're relying on, there's no point arguing. There is nothing at all wrong with an operating charity spending money on salary. If you want to demonstrate the salary is NOT appropriate, you'll have to identify some specifics. Is their travel planner getting $100k? Not appropriate. Are they paying doctors to attend to the poor in Africa, paying for their travel to and from the clinics, rent on space to see folks? That IS what legitimate charitable spending looks like. Telling me the foundation spent $30 million on payroll says NOTHING about whether it was wisely spent to achieve a charitable purpose.
 
Re: EXCLUSIVE: Joint FBI-US Attorney Probe Of Clinton Foundation Is Underway Read mo

If that's the kind of source you're relying on, there's no point arguing. There is nothing at all wrong with an operating charity spending money on salary. If you want to demonstrate the salary is NOT appropriate, you'll have to identify some specifics. Is their travel planner getting $100k? Not appropriate. Are they paying doctors to attend to the poor in Africa, paying for their travel to and from the clinics, rent on space to see folks? That IS what legitimate charitable spending looks like. Telling me the foundation spent $30 million on payroll says NOTHING about whether it was wisely spent to achieve a charitable purpose.

There needs to be very upfront transparency on this.

Why? Because a charity is NOT a business. If you're not a competitive organization putting out a competitive product or service which is competing in the marketplace, then you don't deserve a competitive salary or market wage. If you want a market wage, go work in the marketplace - ie. the business world.

Charity is by definition a higher calling that's more noble and altruistic, and it even gets a tax deduction.

It's one thing for an NFL athlete to make a huge salary - it's a business. It's one thing for a CEO of an automotive company to get a huge salary - it's a business. It's one thing for a real estate tycoon to get a huge paycheque - it's a business.

But it's quite another for a charity to be giving out huge salaries - it's NOT a business. The donating public has every right to know how much people are making at any so-called "charitable" organization. The amount of money spent on helping the actual needy vs the amount of money spent paying the staff matters.

Don't like your low paycheque at the charity you work at? Then I've got a little tip for you - go work in a business - that's the honest way to find a higher paycheque. Go compete in the marketplace.

Seeing people who get their paycheque from charity donations posting their redistributionist politics in here makes my skin crawl. That's a really crooked double standard, when religious institutions aren't allowed to be political. I'm an atheist myself, but when I see the way that the Left seek to dominate all politics, especially from their charitably-financed perches, then I feel religious organizations really need to be freed up and given the same liberties. Because socialism isn't the last word on charity or on helping people.
 
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Re: EXCLUSIVE: Joint FBI-US Attorney Probe Of Clinton Foundation Is Underway Read mo

If that's the kind of source you're relying on, there's no point arguing. There is nothing at all wrong with an operating charity spending money on salary. If you want to demonstrate the salary is NOT appropriate, you'll have to identify some specifics. Is their travel planner getting $100k? Not appropriate. Are they paying doctors to attend to the poor in Africa, paying for their travel to and from the clinics, rent on space to see folks? That IS what legitimate charitable spending looks like. Telling me the foundation spent $30 million on payroll says NOTHING about whether it was wisely spent to achieve a charitable purpose.

1. Shooting the messenger.
2. https://www.clintonfoundation.org/sites/default/files/clinton_foundation_report_public_2014.pdf read section 9 and decide for yourself. Their operating expenses are extremely high.
3. They receive a good deal of government money, they need to be as transparent as possible.

You seem to believe they are above criticism. Screw that, no one is above criticism. No one.
 
Re: EXCLUSIVE: Joint FBI-US Attorney Probe Of Clinton Foundation Is Underway Read mo

Furthermore, charities need to show transparency on all their financial data - how much money they take in, who gets paid how much, where all the money is going - all of it.

We all see what the requirements are for pharmaceutical companies - when you see a drug commercial on TV with serene music in the background, they have to include all those morbid messages about side effects and dangers. It may reduce the appeal of the commercial, but we all benefit from knowing the nitty-gritty, instead of just being lulled into false confidence in the product based on the serene music alone.

It's getting to the point where charities may have to be held to the same standards, when it comes to any donation appeals they make. As part of their donation appeal, they should be required to give up front stats on how much of the donation will make it to the intended recipient.
 
Re: EXCLUSIVE: Joint FBI-US Attorney Probe Of Clinton Foundation Is Underway Read mo

To achieve that number they included program budgets which includes salaries and expenses.

Hannity has nothing to do with this, he's not running for President, start a thread if you want to discuss it.

OC, you made a false claim about the Clinton Foundation. I proved it false. You simply repeated your false claim. That says more about you than the CF. And Hannity has everything to do with this. You obviously confused Hannity's charity scam with the CF.

Just to be clear 89% of CF funds went to charity.
 
Re: EXCLUSIVE: Joint FBI-US Attorney Probe Of Clinton Foundation Is Underway Read mo

Agree to disagree.
OC, the NYPost is lying. watch me prove it.

the Post said this
"Charity Navigator put the foundation on its “watch list,” which warns potential donors about investing in problematic charities. "

Charity Navigator says this

"We had previously evaluated this organization, but have since determined that this charity's atypical business model can not be accurately captured in our current rating methodology. Our removal of The Clinton Foundation from our site is neither a condemnation nor an endorsement of this charity. We reserve the right to reinstate a rating for The Clinton Foundation as soon as we identify a rating methodology that appropriately captures its business model."

https://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.profile&ein=311580204

Just like they did with President Obama, conservatives and their masters in the media have to lie to criticize Hillary. why do conservatives hate the truth?
 
Re: EXCLUSIVE: Joint FBI-US Attorney Probe Of Clinton Foundation Is Underway Read mo

ok, let's do be honest

show us the evidence of hillary's 25 years of alleged corruption

i look forward to reading your extensive list of cites

I'm too old for "cites", whatever exactly you mean by that, but I have known clients of Hillary's at Rose Law Firm, and I remember Juanita Broadrick or however it's spelled, I remember Vince Foster and other events. I remember Benghazi and the entire Libya fiasco, and I have some measure of common sense and an ability to read between the lines. If there is such a thing as "elite", she is certainly a member.

She is, like her husband, an unconvicted felon, most skilled at the art of deception and subterfuge.

For the last week or so, I have been proudly wearing my "Hillary For Prison 2016" T-shirt, for effect. A few people are shocked and offended, more speak out and jokingly want to buy my shirt. :mrgreen:

Peace, bro. Peace, if you have not noticed, is something Hitlery is not interested in.
 
Re: EXCLUSIVE: Joint FBI-US Attorney Probe Of Clinton Foundation Is Underway Read mo

we tend to focus - with good reason - what tRump needs to do differently

team hillary needs to present a very definitive plan to show the voting public how she intends to avoid even the appearance of corruption and/or pay-to-play during her administration

Good luck with that. You can't get a leopard to change it's spots.
 
Re: EXCLUSIVE: Joint FBI-US Attorney Probe Of Clinton Foundation Is Underway Read mo

As I said in another thread once: There is so much smoke in the Clinton room that you cannot see the smoking gun.
 
Re: EXCLUSIVE: Joint FBI-US Attorney Probe Of Clinton Foundation Is Underway Read mo

There needs to be very upfront transparency on this.

Why? Because a charity is NOT a business. If you're not a competitive organization putting out a competitive product or service which is competing in the marketplace, then you don't deserve a competitive salary or market wage. If you want a market wage, go work in the marketplace - ie. the business world.

But charities operate in the business world and have to compete for labor like they have to compete for other resources. And so, obviously, they have to pay "market" wages like they have to pay "market" prices for gasoline, cars, food, rent, etc. Sure, a lot of charities get people to work for less than they could make in a for-profit business, but all that's saying is those employees place a value on the non-cash fringe benefits of helping to achieve a noble purpose, working with good people, or whatever, but they're still paid "market" wages, supply and demand still applies, and charities pay no more or less than they have to to get qualified workers.
The donating public has every right to know how much people are making at any so-called "charitable" organization. The amount of money spent on helping the actual needy vs the amount of money spent paying the staff matters.
.

Some of that is disclosed on IRS Form 990, that most charities have to file, pay for officers and other highly paid persons. But, no, charities are not required to list every employee and his or her annual salary plus benefits.

And helping the "needy" and paying staff are NOT mutually exclusive - it's just not an either/or determination. I just gave you a bit of history on our little charity. Salary is half our budget. That is disclosed on the 990, but those counselor salaries and the salary we pay the director are for services that help the actual needy. It's nonsense to imply that providing goods to the needy serves a legitimate charitable purpose but providing services to the does not.

Don't like your low paycheque at the charity you work at? Then I've got a little tip for you - go work in a business - that's the honest way to find a higher paycheque. Go compete in the marketplace.

They ARE competing in the "marketplace."

Seeing people who get their paycheque from charity donations posting their redistributionist politics in here makes my skin crawl. That's a really crooked double standard, when religious institutions aren't allowed to be political. I'm an atheist myself, but when I see the way that the Left seek to dominate all politics, especially from their charitably-financed perches, then I feel religious organizations really need to be freed up and given the same liberties. Because socialism isn't the last word on charity or on helping people.

All 501(c)(3) orgs have the same rules with regard to political activity. So happily for you, churches are already freed up and HAVE the same liberties as other leftist liberal charities!
 
Re: EXCLUSIVE: Joint FBI-US Attorney Probe Of Clinton Foundation Is Underway Read mo

Furthermore, charities need to show transparency on all their financial data - how much money they take in, who gets paid how much, where all the money is going - all of it.

We all see what the requirements are for pharmaceutical companies - when you see a drug commercial on TV with serene music in the background, they have to include all those morbid messages about side effects and dangers. It may reduce the appeal of the commercial, but we all benefit from knowing the nitty-gritty, instead of just being lulled into false confidence in the product based on the serene music alone.

It's getting to the point where charities may have to be held to the same standards, when it comes to any donation appeals they make. As part of their donation appeal, they should be required to give up front stats on how much of the donation will make it to the intended recipient.

WTF? Charities are held to the same standard. When Pfizer is required to publish the payroll for all their employees, then fine, require our little charity to publish all that for all its employees.

They are already required to tell donors how much goes to accomplish their mission - it's called a Form 990 and you can request it from most public charities (small ones and many churches don't have to fill them out). It tells you how much goes to the intended recipients in the form of goods AND services. If you want to say salary cannot be used to deliver real value, charity, to recipients, you're just operating from a place of extreme ignorance.
 
Re: EXCLUSIVE: Joint FBI-US Attorney Probe Of Clinton Foundation Is Underway Read mo

1. Shooting the messenger.

No, shooting what is obvious hackery. It's not the source, but the content, which was garbage.

2. https://www.clintonfoundation.org/sites/default/files/clinton_foundation_report_public_2014.pdf read section 9 and decide for yourself. Their operating expenses are extremely high.
3. They receive a good deal of government money, they need to be as transparent as possible.

You seem to believe they are above criticism. Screw that, no one is above criticism. No one.

It's pretty funny - you link to their audited financials, and the article refers to their very detailed 990, and you want them to be transparent. What would you like?

So no, they're not above criticism, I'm actually not a fan of Hillary, I think she's either corrupt or very stupid and arrogant, examples are her email, and accepting $10s of millions in speaking fees right before running for POTUS from firms highly connected to government and with $billion issues government addresses all the time, such as the big Wall Street firms, and the Foundation, taking money from entities with government business. They all give the appearance of impropriety at least and indicate a person IMO who is arrogant and out of touch if she believes she should be able to accept $5 million from Wall Street and have the public believe it won't affect how she as POTUS will govern. We're not idiots and she either thinks we are, OR she is.

But the line of attack you're using on the Foundation is just nonsense.
 
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