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Outrage in Paradise after cop shoots crashed drunk driver

reinoe said:
Citizens got charged with first degree murder charges for defending himself against a no-knock raid intrusion by cops.
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And it got "no billed" as it should have. It was a ridiculous charge in that case just as it would be a ridiculous charge in this case. Here the defense is likely going to be something along the lines of PTSD.

The cop in this video showed a warped sense of judgement and followed that up with a disgraceful lack of integrity but it wasn't first degree murder.
 
Face it this was another "thrill kill" by a cop who has nothing better to do than kill citizens for jollies and get paid leave for it. This is why I don't know if cameras are the answer. Time after time we see cops getting caught on camera and nothing happens.
 
Lutherf said:
And it got "no billed" as it should have. It was a ridiculous charge in that case just as it would be a ridiculous charge in this case. Here the defense is likely going to be something along the lines of PTSD.

The cop in this video showed a warped sense of judgement and followed that up with a disgraceful lack of integrity but it wasn't first degree murder.
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I said charge not conviction. Speaking of convictions, if you had read the entire article plenty of civilians get charged and convicted for less than what this cop did too...

• In December 2001, police in Prentiss, Mississippi broke into the home of Cory Maye at 12:30 am. Maye, his young daughter, and his girlfriend lived in one half of a duplex. The other side was occupied by Jamie Smith, a known drug dealer. When Maye’s back door flew open, he fired three shots at the first figure to enter his apartment. One bullet struck and killed Officer Ron Jones. Maye had no prior criminal record. The police, in searching the house, found only a roach. Maye was tried and convicted of capital murder, and sentenced to death. His conviction was thrown out in 2010. In 2011, after he’d served 10 years in prison, prosecutors allowed him to plead guilty to the lesser charge of manslaughter, and released him from prison. The tip in Maye’s case came from a racist, admitted drug addict named Randy Gentry, and by Maye’s attorneys’ account, implicated only Jamie Smith.


• In January 2008, police in Chesapeake, Virginia, took a battering ram to the door front door of Ryan Frederick as he slept. Frederick woke to his dogs barking, and then a crash. He grabbed a handgun upon seeing the newly created hole in his front door, and shot through the door as the police tried to break in. His bullet struck and killed Det. Jarrod Shivers. Frederick also had some pot plants, but the police had no evidence he was selling the drug.
Frederick also claimed he didn’t know the men breaking into his home were police. In fact, three days earlier, a criminal had broken into Frederick’s home. As it turns out, that break-in was committed by the same informant, in order to obtain probable cause for the raid. Frederick was tried on a charge of capital murder. The jury convicted him of manslaughter, instead. He was sentenced to the maximum 10 years in prison. He is still in prison today.


• On the night of January 4 2011, the Weber-Morgan County Narcotics Strike Force took a battering ram to the Odgen, Utah, home of Matthew David Stewart. They were acting on a tip from an ex-girlfriend that Stewart was growing pot in his basement. He was, though the police again had no evidence that he was distributing, or that the pot was for anything other than personal use. Still, Stewart woke to the sound of armed intruders breaking into his home. Naked and scared, the Army veteran grabbed his 9-millimeter Beretta.. The house erupted in gunfire. After 20 minutes of shooting, Officer Jared Francom was dead. Stewart and four other cops were severely wounded. Stewart too was charged with capital murder. Prosecutors announced their intention to seek the death penalty. Last May, Stewart hung himself in his jail cell.
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Lutherf said:
That's bull****. Cops regularly get punished for their crimes. Since they are usually the first agency to investigate a crime there are certainly some instances of obfuscation but it's damned sure not an "every time" kind of thing. Furthermore, lots and lots of folks right now are hyperventilating over "cop hostility" though they couldn't tell a justified shooting from an unjustified one for all the tea in China.
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Cops regularly get away with their crimes, yes.

Cops kill more people than terrorists, yet I'm supposed to go crazy and endorse an Infinity War agaisnt Muslims. Perhaps we should be looking at the oversight that exists now and examine how to better ensure proper, regulated, and limited government force.
 
ocean515 said:
Do you think there is an equivalence to what Ted Kennedy did? Wow. That seems an impossible stretch, but I guess where there is a will, there is a way.
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I think there is a very close equivelance in the actions of the local authorities in the case of Senator Kennedy and this officer. In both cases, the local authorities seem willing to accept any explanation that a favored individual offers to justify their criminal actions- no matter how implausible that explanation is.

As for similarities in action between senator Kennedy and the Officer, yes, there are a few similarities:

- Lets assume the officer did not intend to execute the motorist, but still acted negligently in pointing the weapon at him with out cause and then accidently discharging it. Kennedy did not mean to drown the girl, but still acted negligently in boozing and cruising with her.

- Kennedy and the officer both take steps to cover up their negligence. The officer does not report the shooting, perhaps looks for the casing to conceal. Kennedy does not report the accident and leaves the scene.

- Both Kennedy and the officer offer some pretty dumb explanations for their conduct. Local athorities in both cases seem very pre-disposed to accept these explanations. My guess is that this willingness is based on personal knowledge/ friendship in both cases.

- Local authorities in both cases could well see the victim as being "socially disposible" (DWI moron, Party girl). This makes it easier to accept the explanations offered by the officer and Kennedy
 
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Watching the video it looks like the cop shot twice as I see two flashes from his gun. I can see one shot being accidental, but two?
 
Cryptic said:
I think there is a very close equivelance in the actions of the local authorities in the case of Senator Kennedy and this officer.

In both cases, the local authorities seem willing to accept any explanation that a favored individual offers to justify their criminal actions- no matter how implausible that explanation was. My guess is that this willingness by the local authorities in Martha's Vineyard and Paradise to accept any explanation from a favored in individual is based on personal knowledge of the that individual. Likewise, the victims in both cases are probably seen to be more "socially disposible".
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Socially disposable?

Well, that is so far out there, I see no purpose in continuing our exchange.

Have a great day, and Merry Christmas.

:peace
 
Cryptic said:
I think there is a very close equivelance in the actions of the local authorities in the case of Senator Kennedy and this officer.

In both cases, the local authorities seem willing to accept any explanation that a favored individual offers to justify their criminal actions- no matter how implausible that explanation is. My guess is that this willingness by the local authorities in Martha's Vineyard and Paradise to accept any explanation from a favored in individual is based on personal knowledge of the that individual. Likewise, the victims in both cases are probably seen to be more "socially disposible".

As for similarities in action between senator Kennedy and the Officer, there might be a few:

- Lets assume the officer did not mean to execute the motorist, but still acted negligently in pointing the weapon at him with out cause. Kennedy did not mean to drown the girl, but still acted negligently in boozing and cruising.

- Kennedy and the officer both take steps to cover up their negligence. The officer does not report the shooting, perhaps looks for the casing. Kennedy does not report the accident and leaves the scene.

- Both Kennedy and the officer offer some pretty dumb explanations for their conduct. Local athorities in both cases seem very pre-disposed to accept these explanations.
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Pretzel_logic.jpg
 
Lutherf said:
That was pretty damned bad. I have no idea what was going through that cop's head and saw no reason whatsoever for him to draw and shoot. Furthermore, the idea that it was an accident is absurd. Maybe if the cop had a momentary brain fart it could be negligent homicide but that was really ****ed up.
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Apart from the lightning speed of the execution, the cop's body language indicated he had a negative amount of ****s to give.


Murder 1.
 
reinoe said:
I said charge not conviction. Speaking of convictions, if you had read the entire article plenty of civilians get charged and convicted for less than what this cop did too...
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A couple of years ago right here in Tucson the cops raided Jose Guerenas' house and killed him. I made quite a stink about it then and still think it was a horrible shoot.

Cops are human and make human mistakes. Juries are human and they make mistakes too. On the whole, however, we have a pretty doggone good record on law enforcement and justice.
 
It is really irritating when the word accidental is used after a cop shoots somebody. If they are not properly trained to use their firearm then they shouldn't be cops.
 
Mr Person said:
Apart from the lightning speed of the execution, the cop's body language indicated he had a negative amount of ****s to give.


Murder 1.
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Take a couple of minutes to look at what is required for a crime to rise to first degree murder and then get back to this.

It seems that lots of folks think anything less than a 1st degree murder conviction is akin to letting the shooter walk. That isn't the case. This cop needs to be taken off the street and he needs some time away from society but it doesn't have to be first degree to do that.
 
ocean515 said:
Socially disposable?
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It is not a hard concept to understand. At the end of the day, some victims are more valued by some than others.

Ever hear of cases where the missing suburban mother results in immediate police action where as the missing prostitute gets a very slow response? Or, the stabbing of the housewife is pursued vigorously. Meanwhile, the stabbing of the guy out side the strip joint an hour after close is given a cursorary investigation?

Heck, a well connected youth in my small town once ran over a homeless person in circusmtances that smelled (literally) of DWI. His explanations for driving away (and turning himself in later) were accepted. He was not charged with vehicular homicide and was given a uhmm.... very attractive plea bargain.

My bet is that if he hit a middle class elementary school student, his explanations might, just might not have been so readily accepted and the plea bargain might not have been offered. What do you think?
 
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MrPeanut said:
It is really irritating when the word accidental is used after a cop shoots somebody. If they are not properly trained to use their firearm then they shouldn't be cops.
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If a citizen accidently shot someone, they'd be looking at charges. Hell, there was that wide receiver from the Giants awhile back who accidently shot himself and went to jail for it. Would think that perhaps bad shootings should be punished. But if you're a cop, apparently not.
 
poweRob said:
race baiting on your first post. Go figure.
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oh so there is such a thing as race baiting? Good to hear... maybe you should inform the entire left wing.
 
Cryptic said:
It is not a hard concept to understand- and it is a very real concept.

At the end of the day, some victims are more valued by some than others. Ever hear of cases where the missing suburban mother results in immediate police action where as the missing prostitute gets a very slow response? Or, the stabbing of the housewife is pursued vigorously. Meanwhile, the stabbing of the guy out side the strip joint an hour after close is given a cursorary investigation?
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The idea that there can be people who are considered socially disposable is an invention of people who need to see a conspiracy rather than reality.

A suburban mother exists in a vastly different circumstance than a prostitute or some guy loitering outside of a strip joint an hour after closing. Her disappearance would be far more unusual and potentially suspicious than one of a prostitute or the guy outside the strip joint.

Clearly to anyone not requiring a conspiracy behind every action, the response would be justifiably different as well.
 
Mr Person said:
Apart from the lightning speed of the execution, the cop's body language indicated he had a negative amount of ****s to give.


Murder 1.
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I don’t think they guy died, so it isn’t murder. It wouldn’t be murder 1 because it wasn’t premeditated. But it was covered up, he tried to claim the guy was uncooperative after he shot him, he made a bad shot. So there’s all sorts of proper charges from reckless endangerment, improper use of firearm, assault, conspiracy, etc.

He should be charged, he should be in jail; but he won’t be because he’s a cop.
 
celticwar17 said:
oh so there is such a thing as race baiting? Good to hear... maybe you should inform the entire left wing.
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So you race bait then project. Have any actual input or is this your path?
 
poweRob said:
So you race bait then project. Have any actual input or is this your path?
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The video is awful... The cop probably sacrificed chickens to the gods in thanks that the guy was not black... otherwise this would have been a huge deal imo
 
ocean515 said:
The idea that there can be people who are considered socially disposable is an invention of people who need to see a conspiracy rather than reality.
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Sure, you can split hairs with the examples.

At the end of the day, not all victims are equally valued by all people. This includes the public and those in authority. Likewise, some humans are favored by other humans for what ever reasons (Kennedy and the Officer)?.

When an incident involves a favored human and a uhmm..... "less valued" victim, there is a greater chance (it is not automatic) that the judgement calls of those in authority are going to support the favored person. So yes, the social status of the "doer" and the social status of the victim can make a difference. My bet is that this is what happened in with both Kennedy and the Officer.

No conspiracy, just the reality of dealing with humans.... .
 
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Murder in the 1st.

The cop's body language is clear. He meant to shoot.
 
celticwar17 said:
The video is awful... The cop probably sacrificed chickens to the gods in thanks that the guy was not black... otherwise this would have been a huge deal imo
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So race baiting continues. As you were. I'm going to join the actual debate.
 
poweRob said:
So race baiting continues. As you were. I'm going to join the actual debate.
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I think I have a valid point... you don't have to discuss it, but you are kind of replying to me.
 
Cryptic said:
Sure, you can split hairs with the examples.

At the end of the day, not all victims are equally valued by all people. This includes the public and those in authority. Likewise, some humans are favored by other humans for what ever reasons (Kennedy and the Officer)?.

When an incident involves a favored human and a uhmm..... "less valued" victim, there is a greater chance (it is not automatic) that the judgement calls of those in authority are going to support the favored person. So yes, the social status of the "doer" and the social status of the victim can make a difference. My bet is that this is what happened in with both Kennedy and the Officer.

No conspiracy, just the reality of dealing with humans.... .
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No, just the reality of dealing with, well, reality. Trying to suggest there is equality between the disappearance of a suburban housewife and a prostitute make no sense. You think pointing out the difference is splitting hairs?

As I wrote earlier, your thoughts on this are so out there, there is little purpose to continue. Thanks for the exchange.

:peace
 
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