Jenny Horne's tearful Confederate flag speech shakes S. Carolina statehouse[W:79]

VanceMack said:

Feel free to do so. God bless America. Would you like a small glass of milk to wash down that **** brownie you just ate?

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haymarket said:

So inanimate objects do not influence, effect, impact or play any role in the actions of people?

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Eric7216 said:

Well, I did not say that. They do. I simply believe that she is enabling that concept. People should be logical and not motivated by inanimate objectives and our leaders should exemplify objectivity and rationality.

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j-mac said:

Ok, they could just use this one....View attachment 67187083

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tres borrachos said:

I'm 53. And I live in New England now, I'm not from here. Does one have to live in the area being discussed in order to have an opinion? If that's the case, then everyone needs to stop talking about slavery and the Civil War, considering none of us "remember" that time, either.

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iguanaman said:

Like I said the flag in question is not hated because of the Civil War or slavery although they are nothing to be proud of. It is the 20th century use of it that makes it offensive to blacks who still remember that it was used to symbolize support of segregation and racial repression. It really is that simple.

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VanceMack said:

View attachment 67187098View attachment 67187099

Any MORE excuses?

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But as a political symbol, the flag was revived when northern Democrats began to press for an end to the South’s system of racial oppression. In 1948, the Dixiecrats revolted against President Harry Truman—who had desegregated the armed forces and supported anti-lynching bills. The movement began in Mississippi in February of 1948, with thousands of activists “shouting rebel yells and waving the Confederate flag,” as the Associated Press reported at the time. Some actually removed old, mothballed flags from the trunks where they had until then been gathering dust.

At the Democratic convention that July, nine southern states backed Georgia’s Senator Richard Russell over Truman, parading around the floor behind a waving Confederate flag to the strains of Dixie. The Dixiecrats reconvened in Birmingham, nominating South Carolina Governor Strom Thurmond for the presidency. Sales of Confederate flags, long moribund, exploded. Stores could not keep them in stock. The battle flag became the symbol of segregation.

The flag soon spread. It fluttered from the radio antennas of cars and motorcycles, festooned towels and trinkets, and was exhibited on both sides of the Mason-Dixon line. Some displayed it as a curiosity, a general symbol of rebellion against authority, or an emblem of regional pride. The United Daughters of the Confederacy were split on how to respond, some pleased to see young people showing interest, others calling the proliferation of flags a “desecration.” Newspapers tried to explain the craze, citing explanations from football fans to historically themed balls.


The black press did not find the phenomena quite so baffling. “In a large measure,” wrote the Chicago Defender in 1951, “the rebel craze is an ugly reaction to the remarkable progress of our group.” That was true in the North, as well as the South.

Over the next two decades, the flag was waved at Klan rallies, at White Citizens’ Council meetings, and by those committing horrifying acts of violence. And despite the growing range of its meanings in pop culture, as a political symbol, it offered little ambiguity.

Georgia inserted the battle flag into its state flag in 1956. Two years later, South Carolina made it a crime to desecrate the Confederate flag. And then, on the centennial of the day South Carolina opened fire on Fort Sumter came in 1961, it hoisted the battle flag above its Capitol.

It was a symbol of heritage—but that heritage was hateful. Two state delegations, in Charleston to mark that 1961 centennial, found themselves barred from the hotel where the ceremony was to take place because they included black members. President Kennedy had to issue an executive order moving the commemoration to the Charleston Navy Base. And when the centennial ended, the flag stayed, proclaiming that South Carolina might have lost the war, but that it was determined not to surrender its opposition to racial equality.

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haymarket said:

People have emotions. People use their emotions. ALL people do that. To pretend that humans can ignore heinous and terrible actions and their personal impact upon real life people and suddenly turn into computer versions of Mr, Spock is simply a denial of our own humanity. I want our leaders to use ALL of their human skills and tools to make decisions - and that included objectivity, rationality, information, data and their own emotional make-up and wisdom that simply comes from living. I would hope we all expect that from our elected representatives and leaders.

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Eric7216 said:

Normally when leaders resort to all their human skills and forgo logically arguments for the sake of emotional appeals they are being manipulative. I guess if one supports the outcome that is OK but when one is on the losing end because of skillful manipulations of emotions one would feel differently. Think about the rush to war. I tend to believe that the ends never justify the means.

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Eric7216 said:

Normally when leaders resort to all their human skills and forgo logically arguments for the sake of emotional appeals they are being manipulative. I guess if one supports the outcome that is OK but when one is on the losing end because of skillful manipulations of emotions one would feel differently. Think about the rush to war. I tend to believe that the ends never justify the means.

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Montecresto said:

Miss Horne is a woman first and then a "leader" or representative. You must not be married, or otherwise have scant experience with the feminine gender. You know John Beohner cries quite regularly!

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iguanaman said:

You use the KKK's desecration's of the American flag to rebut my claim? The American flag was not the symbol of the South's opposition to desegregation, the Confederate flag was.

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Eric7216 said:

Oh I don't care about the crying. Crying is simply an unintended physiological response. I was referring to the emotional appeal of her words.

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Henrin said:

His point was that the KKK used the American flag too. You can't very well say because the KKK used the confederate flag it should thus be banned without also supporting the American flag being banned for the same reason.

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iguanaman said:

You use the KKK's desecration's of the American flag to rebut my claim? The American flag was not the symbol of the South's opposition to desegregation, the Confederate flag was.

The History of the Confederate Battle Flag - The Atlantic

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iguanaman said:

Except that the American flag is not the primary symbol adopted by segregationists in the Southern States, the Confederate battle flag is. The fact that you are not aware of this distinction leads me to believe you must be a hermit living in a cave.

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Tettsuo said:

Is the entire argument for keeping the flag up wholly and completely an emotional one?

All of this talk about pride is purely and simply an emotional plea, no?

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austrianecon said:

LOL and in your second pic.. there is an American flag.

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iguanaman said:

I would hope so since that pic was taken at the Democratic National Convention in 1948. Those waving the battle flag were the Dixiecrats. It symbolized their platform of continued segregation enabled by States Rights. I bunch of older Black people still remember those days very well but it was not about honoring any Confederate veterans by a long shot. when it was waved at them it meant continued repression and hatred of their civil rights..
But look, I know it has been hard to take but like SSM and the ACA your side lost the argument and the flag is down for good.
Time for all of you to grow a pair and stop the whining. It's a small victory after all. Fear not, people will still be racists anyway they just won't get the tingle up their leg when they drive by the Statehouse. Big f---ing deal.

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US Conservative said:

If we want to get rid of symbols of racism and intolerance perhaps we should get rid of the democrat party. What do you think?

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Henrin said:

You're not going to get anything but an eye roll from me if you're crying for some inane reason.

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j-mac said:

Because it is stupid....The flag did NOTHING to make anyone DO anything.

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celticwar17 said:

I get emotional... but not when debating or trying to get a point across...as soon as I do, I lose.

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