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Jefferson Memorial, Confederate statues enter national race debate

I find it ironic that so many people want to, wait for it... whitewash... our nation's history. Because, ya know, only the color white is fresh and pure.

:devil:

Removing an honorary memorial of a person that participated in a most horrid institution isn't whitewashing history. It will always be a known fact that many of the "founders" were slave owners, and that knowledge wouldn't disappear with the statue. Just like the confederate states use and support of the institution of slavery won't disappear when SC takes down the confederate war flag. Georgia took it down 14 years ago, the states history is still there, but the states a bit better for having done so. South Carolina will be taking it down under intense pressure and won't have the same credit.
 
Well really it's because I probably couldn't afford one. I guess your saying that had you grown up in early 20th century Germany that you'd have been a Nazi soldier or running a concentration camp. Do you know that there were people morally opposed to slavery as it was being practiced? ;)

You assume you would be in the same financial situation...

And yes, If I grown up in early 20th century Germany there would be a high-chance that I would be a Nazi....Idk running a concentration camp, I don't think many did that...I would be a completely different person though, it's a Nature vrs. Nurture thing... it all depends on how much of myself is my nature and how much of it is my nurture.

But please, chill with the Nazi comparisons... the confederates were nowhere near the Nazi's... like I said before, if you think think they are, you are either ignorant or delusional or partisan or all...

And yes I do, And I stated that... but do you deny that it was more morally ambiguous then than it is now? It took more bravery and more forward thinking to be anti-slavery then... Now it's the default... You can not claim to be a chosen anti-slavery person... you were born to be. You were raised in a enlightened and more educated society. It is societies credit not yours, just like it was societies problem then too... people didn't make the stride yet, but were on the verge to.
 
That might be a little extreme. I don't think that you lump slavery in with everyday offenses.

Correct me if I'm wrong but the current problem with slavery is that it's offensive, right? I mean we don't have an actual problem with race based slavery in this country anymore, do we? It that's the case then the ONLY reason to ban the confederate flag is because it offends some people and if we're going to start banning stuff because it's offensive then it makes no sense whatsoever to continue as a Constitutional Republic because there really is no liberty left to preserve after that.
 
Maybe, but she's kinda hot in a dorkish sort of way.

No, she's actually kind of annoying with her pseudo-intellectual glasses, weight issues and deplorable fashion sense.
 
National hysteria #23b for the year. Can't wait for #24.
 
I watched a video clip of it. Banfield did NOT say, or even suggest, that she believed the Jefferson Memorial should come down. She simply asked Don Lemon, who was on the show with her, if it was comparable to the Confederate flag, to which Lemon basically responded "no."
 
I've seen both liberals and conservatives claim Jefferson for their own side. He seems to be a man for all reasons and everyone can find a little something in him to identify with...his legal mind, his contribution to the constitution, his love of science and exploration, his inventions, his love of architecture, his religion, his long love/hate relationship with Adams, his gentile life on the plantation, his love for Sally, his exploits in France, his decisions as president.... I think we should keep him.


The thing I remember most about Ashley Banfield was when she was in NYC reporting for MSNBC during the immediate aftermath on 9/11 and I saw her bend down to scoop up some ashes to put it on her noticeably clean shoulders and behind her were firemen and people completely covered in ashes wandering around in a shell shocked haze. I can't stand her.
 
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You assume you would be in the same financial situation...

And yes, If I grown up in early 20th century Germany there would be a high-chance that I would be a Nazi....Idk running a concentration camp, I don't think many did that...I would be a completely different person though, it's a Nature vrs. Nurture thing... it all depends on how much of myself is my nature and how much of it is my nurture.

But please, chill with the Nazi comparisons... the confederates were nowhere near the Nazi's... like I said before, if you think think they are, you are either ignorant or delusional or partisan or all...

And yes I do, And I stated that... but do you deny that it was more morally ambiguous then than it is now? It took more bravery and more forward thinking to be anti-slavery then... Now it's the default... You can not claim to be a chosen anti-slavery person... you were born to be. You were raised in a enlightened and more educated society. It is societies credit not yours, just like it was societies problem then too... people didn't make the stride yet, but were on the verge to.

I didn't intend it as a comparison between confederates and Nazi's as a matter of degree. I suppose I could have said that if you'd have grown up in the America of the 18-19 centuries you may have been a participant in the Native American genocide. I don't however understand how you think people are not guilty or less guilty of their crimes because there's some excuse of it due to their nature and nurturing. If that's the case, nobody's guilty of anything.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong but the current problem with slavery is that it's offensive, right? I mean we don't have an actual problem with race based slavery in this country anymore, do we? It that's the case then the ONLY reason to ban the confederate flag is because it offends some people and if we're going to start banning stuff because it's offensive then it makes no sense whatsoever to continue as a Constitutional Republic because there really is no liberty left to preserve after that.

Ah, the slippery slope. Georgia took it down 14 years ago. They're doing just fine. ;)
 
I agree with most of what you wrote, but there was nothing "simple" about his owning slaves. It's a pretty colossal and cruel moral failure on his part. I also don't know that Jefferson's ideas were particularly "amazing". What's amazing that is other people had the courage and moral will to take the ideas he reserved for wealthy white male property owners and apply them to everyone else.

Please keep in mind that before and during Jefferson's life there had never been a time in human history without slavery. The Declaration of Independence was an epochal phenomenon, and the Constitution was among the most subversive documents ever printed.
 
at first I was with you on this issue. But it just seems like a bridge to far for the Democrats to try and take down that statue. The man wrote the Declaration of Independence of god's sake. You stab him in the chest then you have to question the entire country's founding.

nah, even they wouldn't touch that fireball. they have gay marriage to keep them docile and happy for a while.
 
Jefferson Memorial, Confederate statues enter national race debate - LA Times


See how it usually starts, with a mere mention...a pondering of the concept. They float the idea out there probably hoping it'll pick up steam. No doubt they're probably already fantasizing about bulldozers coming in. I wonder when they'll want to posthumously impeach every slave-owning President and remove them from the history books. Probably only a matter time before more crazy ideas like this get floated. Should we include every President that said the word "nigger"? How far should we go in deleting those things that offend? How about the latinos?
Should we disassemble the United States and give them back the land we allegedly took? Right now this is all far fetched, but I don't trust this to end with just a Confederate flag.

I listened to the clip. It was taken out of context. Ashleigh Banfield wasn't proposing that the Jefferson Memorial be taken down. What she said was that a guest they had pre-interviewed (the guest's name was not in the clip, since the clip starts in the middle of the conversation she was having with the other broadcaster), that guest had stated that there had been no demand to have the Memorial removed. So Banfield was JUST ASKING the other broadcaster, who is black, if that's something that should be considered, or what the difference is. The other broadcaster answered that the two things are different....and then he makes comments about that.

Talk about a non-story. This is how those non-stories get started (often by the rightwing, by my observation). Someone says something that isn't true (Breitbart), presents it as fact, and then posts authority for it even, which no one bothers to view directly. And it's passed on. When it never happened in the first place.

No one is going to ask the memorial to be removed because in the first place, a picture of Jefferson isn't carried as an emblem by the KKK, wasn't used by the shooter in SC as an emblem, Jefferson was a President, Jefferson represented the entire U.S. (not just a part that was trying to secede), and Jefferson was a person not a thing. Duh.

The Confederate flag was never a flag of the United States. It was a flag used by part of the country while trying to secede to protect the institution of slavery.
 
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I listened to the clip. It was taken out of context. Ashleigh Banfield wasn't proposing that the Jefferson Memorial be taken down. What she said was that a guest they had pre-interviewed (the guest's name was not in the clip, since the clip starts in the middle of the conversation she was having with the other broadcaster), that guest had stated that there had been no demand to have the Memorial removed. So Banfield was JUST ASKING the other broadcaster, who is black, if that's something that should be considered, or what the difference is. The other broadcaster answered that the two things are different....and then he makes comments about that.

Talk about a non-story. This is how those non-stories get started (often by the rightwing, by my observation). Someone says something that isn't true (Breitbart), presents it as fact, and then posts authority for it even, which no one bothers to view directly. And it's passed on. When it never happened in the first place.

No one is going to ask the memorial to be removed because in the first place, a picture of Jefferson isn't carried as an emblem by the KKK, wasn't used by the shooter in SC as an emblem, Jefferson was a President, Jefferson represented the entire U.S. (not just a part that was trying to secede), and Jefferson was a person not a thing. Duh.

The Confederate flag was never a flag of the United States. It was a flag used by part of the country while trying to secede to protect the institution of slavery.

Jefferson was a slave owner, no more than that is needed by some.
 
Jefferson was a slave owner, no more than that is needed by some.

Apparently so, since no one has demanded the President's memorial be removed. This is all fiction.
 
at first I was with you on this issue. But it just seems like a bridge to far for the Democrats to try and take down that statue. The man wrote the Declaration of Independence of god's sake. You stab him in the chest then you have to question the entire country's founding.

nah, even they wouldn't touch that fireball. they have gay marriage to keep them docile and happy for a while.

I don't think "they" are even discussing it.
 
Doesn't change the fact that you're comparing something illegal now to some legal then.

They knew it to be immoral, and there were those fighting against it at the time. And who decided it was "legal" to own people, and who even has such authority?
 
They knew it to be immoral, and there were those fighting against it at the time. And who decided it was "legal" to own people, and who even has such authority?

You're running off on tangents buddy. You're also off topic.
 
Apparently so, since no one has demanded the President's memorial be removed. This is all fiction.

Yes, just as I said in the OP. Maybe you should have read it.
 
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