• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Nikki Haley: 'I could not look my kids in the face and justify that flag'

Like I said, it was on its way out anyway. Besides slavery has technically been legal in Mississippi until a couple years ago and they finally ratified the 13th amendment.

^ No end to the facepalming /head shaking this young mind delivers.
 
Nikki Haley: 'I could not look my kids in the face and justify that flag' | US news | The Guardian
How could it happen that a flag which has always been a symbol of love for the South now represents racism and hatred? I feel sorry for those people who have been sticking confederate flags on their license plates since forever. Now they are all considered bigots and nazis. Maybe it's time to chill up a bit and just forget about one mentally disabled racist who used it as a symbol of his racial hatred? Because it will only distance the southerners from the rest of the country.

Is she up for re-election?

I don't know about anyone else, but I am so sick to ****ing death of hearing about everyone's outrage over the flag.
 
Is she up for re-election?

I don't know about anyone else, but I am so sick to ****ing death of hearing about everyone's outrage over the flag.

I'm fine. I respect their feelings over it.
 
So you were against the US dropping the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki to end the World War?

Not to veer off topic but there's certainly no consensus on that and we've beat that horse to death here many times. But to the point. If you are to justify atrocities and the targeting of civilians, then just remember that you must accept others doing so as well. As far as fast forwarding back to today and the governors bravado about taking down the flag that she's not seemed too concerned about prior, total political expediency, and she gets absolutely no credit from me.
 
Nikki Haley: 'I could not look my kids in the face and justify that flag'

Sounds like a personal problem to me....
 
Not to veer off topic but there's certainly no consensus on that and we've beat that horse to death here many times. But to the point. If you are to justify atrocities and the targeting of civilians, then just remember that you must accept others doing so as well. As far as fast forwarding back to today and the governors bravado about taking down the flag that she's not seemed too concerned about prior, total political expediency, and she gets absolutely no credit from me.

Yeah, she should have just told outraged people that they had "space to destroy" :roll:
 
What do you mean by that j?

You think that she was being politically expedient? I actually agree with you on that part...However, her counterpart in Balto certainly went down the wrong path no? Anytime politicians react to mob demand it can NOT end well, whether they are demo's or repubs.
 
You think that she was being politically expedient? I actually agree with you on that part...However, her counterpart in Balto certainly went down the wrong path no? Anytime politicians react to mob demand it can NOT end well, whether they are demo's or repubs.

Ah.....yeah ok, I think, I guess we agree????
 
Hahaha, you're right. General Johnston had less of an idea of his opponent, the man who he defended Georgia against, than you!

It is too often the case that some here in the South have constructed their own version of what happened during the Civil War. They cannot face the fact that the Confederacy was both wrong and lost the war.
 
It is too often the case that some here in the South have constructed their own version of what happened during the Civil War. They cannot face the fact that the Confederacy was both wrong and lost the war.

Wrong the South was right and frankly current climate proves it
 
Wrong the South was right and frankly current climate proves it

Wow!!!!!!!!! :shock: :shock: and I'm satisfied that your face is straight as a board while saying that.
 
Explain why the federal government has gotten a lot bigger than it was intended to be then.

Because times change and state governments tend to care less about individual rights than the federal government. State governments are much more likely to become tyrannies of the majorities due to having such lower standards to changing their constitutions, the protections granted to their citizens, and in many cases having a less diverse population in power.
 
Explain why the federal government has gotten a lot bigger than it was intended to be then.

What does that have to do with anything. And how big was the government intended to be. And why would we care today what guys reading by candle light, and still trotting to a shed in the back yard to take a **** think about what size the federal government should be today? They couldn't conceive that we might ever be able to pollute the air we breath requiring an environmental protection agency to regulate it. Or that we'd have an interstate highway system that would need to be run, or people trying to cross our borders and take from us what we lifted off the Indians, requiring a federal border patrol. They wouldn't have conceived that we'd have airwaves that would need an agency to monitor, or the ability to travel into space that would require a NASA. And so many other things that they couldn't have perceived.
 
Not even close. The Confederate flag (all 5 of them)_ flew over exactly 0 slave ships. Even the North had slaves. It took the 13th amendment to free ALL of the slaves since Lincoln's joke of an "emancipation proclamation" only freed slaves in the South. The slave trade had been going on forever, and the north only bothered with it when they realized that if the South kicked their butts like they were already doing, then westward expansion was going to be a huge problem for the north because the southern states would expand even further west and then the north would be a supreme disadvantage.

1. This ignores the historical context of the Confederate flag. The flag was created before the Civil War and used as a symbol to represent a 'nation' that wanted to keep slavery as can be seen in the reasoning for secession behind every Confederate state.

2. The 13th Amendment does allow for slavery, see the bolded portion. It states that "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction." (https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/amendmentxiii)

3. The Emancipation Proclamation freed slaves being held in specifically rebel states. Southern states that sided with the Union were still allowed to keep their slaves.

4. The North really didn't need the EP to gain more troops. Simply put, the industrial capacity of the Union states were so great that it outnumbered the South.
 
Wow!!!!!!!!! :shock: :shock: and I'm satisfied that your face is straight as a board while saying that.

I'm done discussing this with her. After while she will be telling us that Grant surrendered to Lee! :lamo
 
Nikki Haley has finally gone off the deep end on this issue
 
Nikki Haley has finally gone off the deep end on this issue

Strange, off the deep end? Well, you may feel that but 37 of the 40 senators who voted today in South Carolina agreed with her. And that means the majority of Republicans agreed with her. In fact, 37 easily reaches the 2/3 majority needed.
 
At the "lowest common denominator" level, it boils down to economics, and the conflict of interests which existed between the North and South.

The South ultimately rebelled for reasons very similar to those of the American colonies during the Revolution. They felt that a Northern government, in which they had wholly inadequate representation (after all, literally no Southern states voted for Lincoln's presidency) was making unilateral decisions about their future and their livelihoods, without the best interests of the South in mind. They decided to push the issue of voluntary secession from the Union - something which was widely held to be a Constitutional right at the time - in order to correct this state of affairs.

Were they ultimately correct in doing so? No.

However, let's not pretend that the issue revolved around nothing besides irrational Southern hated of African-Americans. That simply wasn't the case.

Woe! Let me stop you there. No one said it was about hatred. That vile didn't truly rue its ugly head in earnest until after the South lost the Civil War. Yes, there were some who treated Black slaves appallingly, but the outright hatred didn't come until later, after that southern way of life so many held so dear (and still defend in principle) was forever disrupted.

Plenty of Southerners (Lee included) had misgivings about slavery. They simply wanted to address the issue on their own terms.

Hence, the reason both indentured servants (i.e., share croppers) and the Fugitive Slave Act were ushered into existence. Both were ways to hold unto "cheap labor" at any cost to: 1) keep labor cost down and 2) undermine the new legalized freedom of Blacks. Yes, the North and the South used both to their advantage but it was more detrimental to Blacks in the South than to those who lived in the North at the time.

A) It IS being primarily flown over war memorials, and by private persons. The Far Left and PC authoritarians in general are trying to deny Southerners even that right.

Then they are wrong for going that extra mile, IMO, just as both sides were - North and South but in particular the South - for exploiting Blacks after Emancipation using both sharecropping and the Fugitive Slave Act as unfair labor tactics to keep free Blacks under their thumb.

B) By this logic, are we to assume that Native Americans should "just get over it" and throw away their cultural heritage as well? They "lost" a Hell of a lot worse than the South ever did.

Not at all. But Native Americans for the most part made the decision to be separate from the American populace while also being afforded the protections the United States provides by virtue of all U.S. Indian Reservations coming under the jurisdiction of U.S. laws. That's not to say that even after corralling them into somewhat isolated parts of the country that the U.S. government didn't try to take advantage of them (again and again), but despite their efforts Native American Indians still retain "their land" and are pretty much left alone today. Sure, they're having their share of problems (which we won't get into because that would derail the tread all the more), but they aren't facing the same level of racial scrutiny Blacks seem to still be facing today.
 
Last edited:
1. This ignores the historical context of the Confederate flag. The flag was created before the Civil War and used as a symbol to represent a 'nation' that wanted to keep slavery as can be seen in the reasoning for secession behind every Confederate state.

2. The 13th Amendment does allow for slavery, see the bolded portion. It states that "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction." (https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/amendmentxiii)

3. The Emancipation Proclamation freed slaves being held in specifically rebel states. Southern states that sided with the Union were still allowed to keep their slaves.

4. The North really didn't need the EP to gain more troops. Simply put, the industrial capacity of the Union states were so great that it outnumbered the South.

I see with #3 you admit that Lincoln was not the saint people have been indoctrinated to think he was. Glad to see someone else admit it.
 
What does that have to do with anything. And how big was the government intended to be. And why would we care today what guys reading by candle light, and still trotting to a shed in the back yard to take a **** think about what size the federal government should be today? They couldn't conceive that we might ever be able to pollute the air we breath requiring an environmental protection agency to regulate it. Or that we'd have an interstate highway system that would need to be run, or people trying to cross our borders and take from us what we lifted off the Indians, requiring a federal border patrol. They wouldn't have conceived that we'd have airwaves that would need an agency to monitor, or the ability to travel into space that would require a NASA. And so many other things that they couldn't have perceived.

So in other words you're glad this country has strayed from the way the founders intended for it to be?
 
Because times change and state governments tend to care less about individual rights than the federal government. State governments are much more likely to become tyrannies of the majorities due to having such lower standards to changing their constitutions, the protections granted to their citizens, and in many cases having a less diverse population in power.

Yet if you read true American history, the founders did not want a strong central government, in other words what we have now. Hence the reason for the 10th amendment, the most ignored amendment ever.
 
Back
Top Bottom