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Nikki Haley: 'I could not look my kids in the face and justify that flag'

Again, the official reason was the 100 year anniversary of the Civil War. Any claim to the contrary is ultimately conjecture and hearsay.

Either way, the flag certainly doesn't stand for segregation now, and doesn't fly over the capital anymore. Who the Hell cares?

It now stands for white Southern conservatives who generally have a disdainful view of black people.
 
Again, the official reason was the 100 year anniversary of the Civil War. Any claim to the contrary is ultimately conjecture and hearsay.

Either way, the flag certainly doesn't stand for segregation now, and doesn't fly over the capital anymore. Who the Hell cares?

What does it stand for then? The South lost the Civil war. It is the flag of treasonous losers if it is not the flag of the segregationist Dixiecrats . This is what a historian says.

In the year 2000, the state legislature of South Carolina effected a compromise. At least, they called it a compromise—in reality, it was not. They took [the flag] down from the capitol dome and put it right smack on the state capitol grounds. So, it was even more visible after 2000 than before. And this brought the NAACP of South Carolina to call for a boycott of the state, and in fact many organizations refuse to hold their annual conventions in South Carolina.

It’s remained a contentious issue for the past 15 years because if you’re African American, and you walk by that flag, it’s a government endorsement of slavery [and] white supremacy. For African Americans, that’s what the flag stood for and that’s what the flag stands for. And the history of the flag certainly undergirds that interpretation.

The HISTORY of the flag is what makes it offensive.
 
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According to whom, exactly? Bigoted Northerners and melodramatic Leftists?

Why don't we see liberal black Southerners flying or defending the flag? Oh, right.
 
What does it stand for then? The South lost the Civil war. It is the flag of treasonous losers if is not the flag of the Dixiecrats .

Well, obviously - seeing as how it's flying over a war memorial - it stands for the Southern soldiers who fought and died in the Civil War, and the historical heritage that represents.

If certain African Americans - actively looking for an excuse to be offended - can't get that through their thick skulls, that's frankly their problem, not mine. It's not a position which is universal within the Southern African American community anyway.

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There is also a Black History monument on the other side of the State House grounds, in case you've forgotten.
 
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Well, obviously - seeing as how it's flying over a war memorial - it stands for the Southern soldiers who fought and died in the Civil War, and the historical heritage that represents.

If certain African Americans - actively looking for an excuse to be offended - can't get that through their thick skulls, that's frankly their problem, not mine. It's not a position which is universal within the Southern African American community anyway.

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There is also a Black History monument on the other side of the State House grounds, in case you've forgotten.

Boy do those guys look unhappy. I wonder who held a gun on them for those pics? Defending that flag is like defending the robes of the KKK because they started as a neighborhood defense organization. It's not even a Confederate flag, it's the Flag of General Lee, who practically single handedly lost the Civil war for the South and nearly 300,000 Confederates died. What is this southern fascination with losers about? My county in Florida is named for him and he never even set foot here.
 
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Well, obviously - seeing as how it's flying over a war memorial - it stands for the Southern soldiers who fought and died in the Civil War, and the historical heritage that represents.

Just FYI, the black person in that photo has a unique interpretation of the flag, completely divorced from what the flag is intended to represent. He was on CNN. It would be like if someone chose to view the Nazi flag as an homage to Oscar Schindler for saving Jews.
 
Just FYI, the black person in that photo has a unique interpretation of the flag, completely divorced from what the flag is intended to represent. He was on CNN. It would be like if someone chose to view the Nazi flag as an homage to Oscar Schindler for saving Jews.

And what do you think it is "intended to represent," exactly?

I saw the interview. He said that, for him, it represented Southern culture and Southern heritage. That's pretty much exactly the same thing it represents for me. :shrug:
 
And what do you think it is "intended to represent," exactly?

I saw the interview. He said that, for him, it represented Southern culture and Southern heritage. That's pretty much exactly the same thing it represents for me. :shrug:

The "Heritage " it represents is exactly why it is offensive. Anybody that knows its history can see that.
 
The "Heritage " it represents is exactly why it is offensive. Anybody that knows its history can see that.

I'm sorry, but not everyone agrees - particularly not those of us who actually had ancestors who fought in the war. The supposed "moral superiority" of the North is overstated (usually by Northerners), and so is the central nature of slavery. The issue was not as cut and dry as - heavily biased - popular culture and political narratives like to make out.

Again, either way, it is entirely possible to honor Southern soldiers, their efforts, and their sacrifices without necessarily honoring slavery. Southerners have been doing it for 150 years. It's apparently only news to the North and the Far Left.
 
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And what do you think it is "intended to represent," exactly?

Well, since it is a battle flag, and the Confederates were battling exclusively for the right to keep black people as property, I'd say the meaning is pretty clear. Otherwise, what part of Southern heritage do you think the flag represents?

I saw the interview. He said that, for him, it represented Southern culture and Southern heritage. That's pretty much exactly the same thing it represents for me. :shrug:

No, he said that his ancestor was a cook for the Confederates, and after the war was over his ancestor received a pension. And he refuses to turn his back on that. So his interpretation of the flag is wildly different from basically 99.99% of other people.

 
Well, since it is a battle flag, and the Confederates were battling exclusively for the right to keep black people as property,

And you're wrong right out of the gate. The Confederates were primarily battling for their perceived Constitutional right to political and economic self-determination. Slavery was simply one aspect of that, and even then, only really because the Southern economy was wholly dependent upon it.

A great many Confederates - such as Robert E. Lee - were actually opposed to slavery, and planned to try and gradually phase it out if the South had won the war.

No, he said that his ancestor was a cook for the Confederates, and after the war was over his ancestor received a pension. And he refuses to turn his back on that. So his interpretation of the flag is wildly different from basically 99.99% of other people.



Yes, and?

Some of my ancestors fought for the Confederacy as well. Most white Southerners have someone in their family line who did. That is the primary reason why we, and Southern culture in general, have an attachment to the battle flag.

His reasons are not any different than those put forward by the vast majority of people who do not oppose the flag's presence. For most of us, it is a symbol of heritage, not hate.
 
And you're wrong right out of the gate. The Confederates were primarily battling for their perceived Constitutional right to political and economic self-determination. Slavery was simply one aspect of that, and even then, only really because the Southern economy was wholly dependent upon it.

The political and economic self-determination of owning slaves. Slavery was not only the primary reason for secession, it was explicitly stated by every state which joined the Confederacy.



Some of my ancestors fought for the Confederacy as well. Most white Southerners have someone in their family line who did. That is the primary reason why we, and Southern culture in general, have an attachment to the battle flag.

I don't understand. If my grandfather fought for the Nazis, I wouldn't be proud. At the same time, I wouldn't be ashamed. Because I had no say in the matter. If I chose to fly the Nazi flag in honor of what my grandfather fought for, that is a choice -- and a very bad one.
 
What does it stand for then? The South lost the Civil war. It is the flag of treasonous losers if it is not the flag of the segregationist Dixiecrats . This is what a historian says.



The HISTORY of the flag is what makes it offensive.

The flag of my state depicts a slave owning southerner front and center, what happens when some special interest group claims they feel hatred visiting the capitol dome?

If history (and not current meaning) is what makes things offensive this becomes a valid question
 
All this overblown flag business will pass when America has something else to think about.

I don't like the Confederate flag.

But if people want to fly it - go ahead...I really do not much care.

It's just a flag.

And flags literally mean (practically) nothing to me...ALL flags.
 
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The political and economic self-determination of owning slaves.

I'm sorry, but no. That's simply wrong. Southern soldiers didn't charge into battle with the thought of preserving some rich man's ability to own slaves on their minds.

They were sold the war on the premise of state's rights, and independence. The ability to deal with slavery as the states saw fit simply happened to be one of those rights.

Besides, both North and South owned slaves for the duration of the war, and both sides generally regarded African Americans as being "inferior." The Emancipation Proclamation didn't even come into play until two years into the conflict. Before that point, the Union was simply fighting to preserve it's territory.

I don't understand. If my grandfather fought for the Nazis, I wouldn't be proud. At the same time, I wouldn't be ashamed. Because I had no say in the matter. If I chose to fly the Nazi flag in honor of what my grandfather fought for, that is a choice -- and a very bad one.

A) The Confederates weren't the freaking Nazis. That's simply the Far Left pulling a melodramatic Godwin.

B) It was 150 years ago. Lighten up.

The Germans still pay homage to the Iron Cross in spite of it being used in both WW1 and WW2. The Japanese still fly the Rising Sun flag which was carried into battle by the Imperial Japanese Army and Navy. All of those regimes were responsible for things quite a bit more heinous than anything in which the C.S.A. was ever involved.
 
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and Abe was killed a few days after the war ended.
 
Anyone who chose to use that flag as a way to denote simple southern life did so foolishly since it's basically the battle flag for slavery. It's time now to admit that, put the flag away, and move forward.

Location: metro Detroit.
 
You know what, I don't care what the flag stood for in the past or what other people feel that the flag stands for. All that matters is what I feel the flag stands for. And for me the flag stands for Rebellion against tyrannical authority. Dukes of Hazard style. That's where I first saw it. On the Dukes of Hazard. And what it meant on that show is to rebel against corruption and to help those in need and always do the right thing. THAT is what I feel the flag stands for. If others disagree....I don't care.
 
Someone needs to pass that on to those who raised and taught the guy who murdered 9 blacks in a Black church.

Where did he get his ideas from?
 
Someone needs to pass that on to those who raised and taught the guy who murdered 9 blacks in a Black church.

Where did he get his ideas from?


From the internet. In today's age of information availability, ignorance is willful.
 
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Originally Posted by Amadeus
The political and economic self-determination of owning slaves.

I'm sorry, but no. That's simply wrong. ....

No Amadeus is right.





It was the literal lifeblood of the CSA.

Slavery was their Cornerstone.
 
...
Besides, both North and South owned slaves for the duration of the war ...
...
Most Northern states had abolished slavery in the 18th Century.
There were very few slaves in the North by 1861.

Meanwhile, in the States the CSA claimed as their own, there were nearly four million slaves.

Yes, nearly one out of four people in the South were slaves.

I always think these stats are stunning:

State ---Free Population ---Slave Population (1860)
Alabama --519,121 ----435,080
Georgia ---505,088 ----462,198
Louisiana --376,276 ----331,726
Mississippi -354,674 ----436,631
South Carolina-- 301,302 ---402,406
Texas ---421,649 ----182,566
Arkansas --324,335--- 111,115
North Carolina -661,563 ---331,099
Tennessee--- 834,082--- 275,719
Florida ---78,679 ----61,745
Kentucky --930,201 ---225,483
Virginia --1,105,453 ---490,865


Some states more slaves than free persons.
 
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