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Greece referendum: Early results show 'No' vote ahead

Andalublue

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Greece referendum: Early results show 'No' vote ahead - BBC News

At the moment, 8:10pm CET, it looks as if Greece has said 'no' to the Troika's position on austerity.

Tsipras says he wants to return to the negotiating table immediately. Let's see if the Troika respond by pulling the plug in revenge, or whether they will show that they are serious about keeping the Eurozone together.

So, what happens now?

I think the ball's now in Brussels/Berlin's court.
 
Greece referendum: Early results show 'No' vote ahead - BBC News

At the moment, 8:10pm CET, it looks as if Greece has said 'no' to the Troika's position on austerity.

Tsipras says he wants to return to the negotiating table immediately. Let's see if the Troika respond by pulling the plug in revenge, or whether they will show that they are serious about keeping the Eurozone together.

So, what happens now?
I think the ball's now in Brussels/Berlin's court.



As of right now Greece is still using the Euro.

Who knows what will be going on next month?
 
The Greek people don't want to leave the Euro, but they won't take any more of Europe's lethal medicine either.
 
Whoa!

I had a gut feeling they were going to secede.

This is going to be hella' interesting to watch!
 
They should never have bailed the banks.
 
They need to man up and leave the EU.
 
"No" appears to have won decisively. With 46.6% of the vote in, "No" leads 61.1% - 38.9%. "No" needs to win just over 40.3% of the remaining votes to prevail.

While I supported the "Yes" side on worries about Greece's exit from the Euro Zone, I fully respect the choice of Greece's people. I do hope the EU/ECB/IMF will be generous with Greece.
 
Whoa!

I had a gut feeling they were going to secede.

This is going to be hella' interesting to watch!

They're not going to withdraw, not from the Eurozone - although they can be ejected - nor from the EU, from which they cannot be ejected.
 
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/ff37c3a0-22e7-11e5-9c4e-a775d2b173ca.html#axzz3f2njBzP8
Early results suggested the No camp had won Sunday’s highly divisive referendum in Greece over the terms of its international bailout, a vote which creditors deemed an in-out choice on euro membership.

With a third of the vote counted, the No camp was solidly ahead on 61 per cent and was ahead in every region of the country, leading experts to predict victory for Greek prime minister Alexis Tsipras.
 
They're not going to withdraw, not from the Eurozone - although they can be ejected - nor from the EU, from which they cannot be ejected.
Interesting - the news has been billing this as an (eventual) 'leaving the EU'.
 
Interesting - the news has been billing this as an (eventual) 'leaving the EU'.

Well, that has been the disinformation that the Troika side has been pushing at the Greeks in the lead up to the referendum. What you have to realise is that Greece, or any other member state, cannot be ejected from the EU without the fundamental treaties being changed. A member may leave, but they may not be ejected. Syriza has no intention of leaving, they've said this time and again.
 
Interesting - the news has been billing this as an (eventual) 'leaving the EU'.

I don't believe that will happen. It's the same situation as last week when the duly government essentially refused what was offered. Don't see how the referendum on a now void bailout package has changed the actual situation.

It was diverting I guess.
 
Interesting - the news has been billing this as an (eventual) 'leaving the EU'.

Well the news is usually uncannily predictive so you might have a point.
 
21:00 hrs CET. 50% of the votes counted: No - 61%, Yes - 39%.
 
With 60% of the vote in, "No" continues to lead 61.3%-58.7%. "No" needs just over 32.8% of the remaining votes to prevail. The "No" side has scored a large victory despite some headlines still referring to a close vote or narrow lead. For every "Yes" vote, there has been about 1.6 "No" votes.
 
Somebody please correct me, but for all the world it looks to me as if the situation remains exactly the same as it was last week. The Greeks will not accept the package that they wouldn't accept last week without a public referendum.
 
So, what happens now?

For now it becomes a game of political clout. Greece is not going to voluntarily leave the EU/Euro so it would take a political effort by several other members to force the issue and we not not too confident there is enough political pressure to force Greece out.

Assuming the referendum does fail, we are back to negotiations. Technically speaking Greece is already in default on an IMF payment, for however long that continues and/or how many more payments are missed is anyone's guess but the further we go the more pressure there is to find some solution or have it all break down.

Greece wants to continue with fiscal irresponsibility and have other member nations forgive them for it. Several others, mostly lead by Germany, are against it. They want Greece to submit to fiscal / economic policy reforms and changes to pension plans in exchange for some deal.

From my chair a "no" vote does not change the basic roadblock, it is not all of a sudden going to mean Greece can continue with fiscal irresponsibility and have no repercussions for it.
 
Greece is like the spoiled child of privilege. Always having mommy and daddy pay the way for their indulgent lifestyle. Time to kick the ingrates out of the house and let them sink or swim on their own. Canada only supports the IMF to a small amount but I'd be opposed to even one more penny going to prop up these idiots. As noted this morning, Greece has an economy about the size of South Carolina - if they fail, big deal - a few days of yoyoing on the stock market and then forgotten. Maybe then, with their tail between their legs, they'll come to their senses and pay the piper for their decades of indulgence.

And let's not forget, there's Portugal, and Italy, perhaps Spain, all lining up behind Greece waiting to see the outcome and what it will cost them going forward. If you cave into the first ransom holder, you lose the rest too. Cut them off now and cast them adrift.
 
Somebody please correct me, but for all the world it looks to me as if the situation remains exactly the same as it was last week. The Greeks will not accept the package that they wouldn't accept last week without a public referendum.

Correct, nothing has changed. Maybe they proceed with the letter of near capitulation sent by Tsipras early last week. I doubt we'll see a referendum on that.
 
Somebody please correct me, but for all the world it looks to me as if the situation remains exactly the same as it was last week. The Greeks will not accept the package that they wouldn't accept last week without a public referendum.

The Greek government wouldn't accept it last week, hence the referendum. The Greek people have now positively rejected it. The ball is now in the creditors' court. Are they going to withdraw all emergency support and force the Greeks out of the eurozone? Or are they going to negotiate a realistic and much improved offer which includes debt relief.

The head of the German central bank has warned the German government that Grexit would cost the German economy tens of billions of Euros. They have created an emergency fund to cover that eventuality, but it only contains €14 billion, a fraction of what would be needed to avoid serious consequences for the German economy.

Here's an even stronger warning.

Those scenarios make the obvious point that forcing a Grexit would cost the rest of the Eurozone far, far more than it would have to commit by restructuring the Greek debt.
 
Correct, nothing has changed. Maybe they proceed with the letter of near capitulation sent by Tsipras early last week. I doubt we'll see a referendum on that.[/QUOTE

Greetings, Ben K. :2wave:

Perhaps I'm reading this "no" vote incorrectly, but it doesn't look as if Greece capitulated at all. They just don't have the money to pay their bill without borrowing more from the same people they owe. Weird! If talks do begin anew, we'll soon know what the final terms are.
 
Correct, nothing has changed. Maybe they proceed with the letter of near capitulation sent by Tsipras early last week. I doubt we'll see a referendum on that.

There's no way Tsipras is going to return to that position. The Troika rejected it, and the Greek people have rejected the idea of capitulating to unreasonable creditor conditions.

I think everyone, on both sides, recognise that the Tsipras letter was a mistake. The referendum result shows that the Greeks are not going to accept further austerity-based solutions.
 
There's no way Tsipras is going to return to that position. The Troika rejected it, and the Greek people have rejected the idea of capitulating to unreasonable creditor conditions.

I think everyone, on both sides, recognise that the Tsipras letter was a mistake. The referendum result shows that the Greeks are not going to accept further austerity-based solutions.

The referendum showed that they rejected the previous deal. The election of Syriza showed they rejected austerity (which should have been the end of it). What do you think happens if the trokia meets the conditions of that letter halfway? Do you expect another referendum?
 
The Greek government wouldn't accept it last week, hence the referendum. The Greek people have now positively rejected it. The ball is now in the creditors' court. Are they going to withdraw all emergency support and force the Greeks out of the eurozone? Or are they going to negotiate a realistic and much improved offer which includes debt relief.

The head of the German central bank has warned the German government that Grexit would cost the German economy tens of billions of Euros. They have created an emergency fund to cover that eventuality, but it only contains €14 billion, a fraction of what would be needed to avoid serious consequences for the German economy.

Here's an even stronger warning.

Those scenarios make the obvious point that forcing a Grexit would cost the rest of the Eurozone far, far more than it would have to commit by restructuring the Greek debt.

Thank you.
 
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