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Greece referendum: Early results show 'No' vote ahead

And yet the Troika rejected it, or rather said that it would only consider it if the referendum was called off. Well, like the offer on which the referendum was based, I'd say that today's result means that the letter is no longer on the table.
you're darn right in that everything is off the table. From both sides.
 
The situation/disaster in Greece concludes a failed classical experiment in Socialism.
Your partisanship overhwelms your logic. The disaster was of the making of centrist and right-wing capitalist oligarchs. Fortunately Greeks had the good sense to elect people not in the pockets of bankers and corporations, and even better sense to provide him with an unequivocal mandate to negotiate.

No doubt, there's an economic disaster going on there and there's no rosy future in sight, but there's no doubt that Grexit would damage the creditor nations enormously too, Germany stand to lose up to €100 billion ($120 billion) alone.
 
greek politicians announced they would not repay their debt until germany paid for war damages, which seems quite fair to me

It seems like a ploy to me, and most others.
 
you're darn right in that everything is off the table. From both sides.

Yes, we're back to Square One. Let's start again, because the consequences of Grexit will be hideously more expensive for everyone than a restructured debt agreement.
 
The ECB has the first move so to speak. We'll learn soon whether or not it has increased its ELA financing to Greece's banks. I don't think it will withdraw its support unless Greece misses its payment to the central bank later this month. It could maintain the current level of support, meaning the Greek banking holiday and capital controls persist. Greece may then issue some kind of scrip currency or IOUs.
No, it hasn't increased ELA and it doesn't sound (even on a Sunday) like it's going to in the immediate future.

For it to act now when any negotiations in Brussels will find a pre-conference not earlier than Tuesday, it would have to go against its own statutes. Not to mention EU law.
 
I didn't say anybody was wealthy. The person to whom I responded said that the Greeks want neither to abandon the Euro nor to reduce government spending. That isn't an option just like being wealthy without doing anything about it. If Germans live high on the hog then I salute them. Greece is in serious trouble. Let it be a lesson to us.
Germans don't live high on the hog on Greek troubles. If they'd managed to achieve that an economy which constitutes barely 2pct of the overall EU input had such an impact, I'd chuck my degree and go consult whoever runs their finances.
 
Well, I think it's much more likely that the first move will be to reschedule discussions and for the Troika to signal that it is prepared to countenance some form of restructuring. I suppose that a refusal of the ECB to increase its ELA would give the opposite message loudly enough, but I have a feeling the Troika side might be feeling a little more flexible tomorrow.
You keep on referring the Troika as though it was already cut'n dried that the IMF is going to participate again.

Better wait for it.
 
Germans don't live high on the hog on Greek troubles. If they'd managed to achieve that an economy which constitutes barely 2pct of the overall EU input had such an impact, I'd chuck my degree and go consult whoever runs their finances.
Well, it has had such an impact. So off you go.
 
The situation/disaster in Greece concludes a failed classical experiment in Socialism.

The concept sounded swell. Kumbaya. But it doesn't translate well to reality.


The vote today of "no" just simplifies things for the EU. Greece can work things out on it's own....
Actually it has absolutely nothing to do with socialism, no matter what Syriza's leaning.

Cognitive dissonance, inflicted or self-induced, can strike anyone, given the right circumstances. Most of those that voted "Xoi" today never voted Syriza.
 
You keep on referring the Troika as though it was already cut'n dried that the IMF is going to participate again.

Better wait for it.

Unless the IMF are resigned to writing off their debt, with Greece in permanent default for the foreseeable future, they'd be best advised to come back to the negotiating table.
 
greek politicians announced they would not repay their debt until germany paid for war damages, which seems quite fair to me
yeah, well Germany may pay back when France pays for the damages that Napoleon (and before him Louis Quatorze) wreaked upon German lands.

Not to mention when Rome pays for what its legions did 2,000 years ago.

Get a grip.
 
Actually it has absolutely nothing to do with socialism, no matter what Syriza's leaning.

Cognitive dissonance, inflicted or self-induced, can strike anyone, given the right circumstances. Most of those that voted "Xoi" today never voted Syriza.

It's 'oxi', not xoi. And no, it is probably about 2/3 of the no voters who were Syriza voters. Their success in convincing non-Syriza voters to vote no is quite impressive however.
 
Yes, we're back to Square One. Let's start again, because the consequences of Grexit will be hideously more expensive for everyone than a restructured debt agreement.
Nobody has any credible idea of what consequences giving in to Greece will have on those that have borne a far heavier load within the EU. And thus will cost in the long run.

The sum a Grexit will entail is fairly well known.

Just saying
 
Unless the IMF are resigned to writing off their debt, with Greece in permanent default for the foreseeable future, they'd be best advised to come back to the negotiating table.
IMF has to go thru a lengthy process of first sending reminders, then claims and then suing.

But as indicated, your guess is as good as mine so let's wait and see.
 
It's 'oxi', not xoi. And no, it is probably about 2/3 of the no voters who were Syriza voters. Their success in convincing non-Syriza voters to vote no is quite impressive however.
Typo, having some Greek I know that it's Oshee. Depends where one goes though.

The math seems a bit off though, but no matter. Landslide is landslide.
 
No, it hasn't increased ELA and it doesn't sound (even on a Sunday) like it's going to in the immediate future.

For it to act now when any negotiations in Brussels will find a pre-conference not earlier than Tuesday, it would have to go against its own statutes. Not to mention EU law.

Its decision will be early tomorrow. I suspect it will hold things as they are tomorrow. Afterward, a lot will depend on Europe's political leaders and whether Greece makes a serious effort to negotiate a new package.
 
Don't know if this was posted earlier, but . . .
With almost all the ballots counted, results from the Greek referendum show voters decisively rejecting the terms of an international bailout.
Figures published by the interior ministry showed 61% of those whose ballots had been counted voting "No", against 39% voting "Yes".
Greece's governing Syriza party had campaigned for a "No", saying the bailout terms were humiliating.
Their opponents warned that this could see Greece ejected from the eurozone.
Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras said late on Sunday that Greeks had voted for a "Europe of solidarity and democracy".
"As of tomorrow, Greece will go back to the negotiating table and our primary priority is to reinstate the financial stability of the country," he said in a televised address.
Greece debt crisis: Greek voters reject bailout offer - BBC News

"As of tomorrow, Greece will go back to the negotiating table and our primary priority is to reinstate the financial stability of the country,"

If that's the case, wouldn't one of the first things that needs to be done be that the Greece government NOT spending more than it takes in?
That it crack down on tax cheats?

Just thinking that if the US government continues on the same spending track, this may be the future awaiting the US. And on that vein, it's better to deal with the problem earlier rather than later, rather than letting the problem continue to grow and get worse. It's not going to get better unless there are some reforms, such as a balanced budget constitutional amendment.

Heck, don't all the states have such an constitutional clause? Don't the governors and the state legislators have to comply with the same constraints?
 
Its decision will be early tomorrow. I suspect it will hold things as they are tomorrow. Afterward, a lot will depend on Europe's political leaders and whether Greece makes a serious effort to negotiate a new package.
Indeed, the last thing Frankfurt will be wanting to do is preempt political negotiations. Which cannot start before Tuesday.
 
Don't know if this was posted earlier, but . . .
Greece debt crisis: Greek voters reject bailout offer - BBC News

"As of tomorrow, Greece will go back to the negotiating table and our primary priority is to reinstate the financial stability of the country,"

If that's the case, wouldn't one of the first things that needs to be done be that the Greece government NOT spending more than it takes in?
That it crack down on tax cheats?
Like since 2012 already? Yeah, sounds good.

Just thinking that if the US government continues on the same spending track, this may be the future awaiting the US. And on that vein, it's better to deal with the problem earlier rather than later, rather than letting the problem continue to grow and get worse. It's not going to get better unless there are some reforms, such as a balanced budget constitutional amendment.

Heck, don't all the states have such an constitutional clause? Don't the governors and the state legislators have to comply with the same constraints?
Well, when lenders impose that sort of thing on Greece, it's by now called terrorism. There's no doubt that many of the imposed conditions were absolutely without merit to anyone. But that's a different story.
 
Wow. Overwhelming No at more than 60%.
For me this spells doom.
Greek will end up dropping out of the Eurozone.
This will encourage other parties in other parts of Europe.
It will compromise the European Union.
Then nationalism will rise, and extreme right positions. We know what happens to Europe when those are on the rise.
This will also play right into the hands of Putin and the Chinese.
A bad union in this geopolitical climate in my opinion is better than no union.
Portugal, Italy, Spain, and Ireland accepted austerity measures and pulled out of the bulk of the crisis, and are growing again.
I think the Greek are making a mistake.
Oh well...
 
It seems like a ploy to me, and most others.

well tell it to the deadbeats in germany who have refused for over 70 years - far longer than greece's current situation - to pay for the damage they caused
 
Like since 2012 already? Yeah, sounds good.

Well, when lenders impose that sort of thing on Greece, it's by now called terrorism. There's no doubt that many of the imposed conditions were absolutely without merit to anyone. But that's a different story.

" Terrorism " ??

Lol !!!! I'm willing to bet that you own at least one Che Guevara poster, maybe more.

Whatever's been " imposed " on Greece has been done by Greece and Greece alone.

Asking a Government that knowingly distributed hundreds of Billions of dollars worth of worthless bonds throughout European banks to honor its contracts is far from " terrorism ".
 
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