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Episcopalians Vote to Allow Gay Marriage in Churches

For the record I wasn't trying to make this personal, but just to point out that there are fine people with noble intentions who deeply disagree on nearly aspect of the broad subject of "religion" and I'm certain that there are deeply religious people who have studied the Bible for decades who 'know' their own interpretation is correct and yours is the one that is contrary to the scripture.

Prove it.....nicely :)
 
Prove it.....nicely :)

Are you a Mennonite or a Quaker or a Jew or a Muslim or a Baptist or an Episcopalian or a Unitarian or a Mormon, etc.? Or none of them?

Doesn't matter what your answer is, or what you believe, there are billions of good people living as they see God's will and strongly disagree with whatever your belief system is. They are as sure you're wrong, perhaps doomed, as you are certain it's they who are wrong. That's all I need to "prove."
 
It looks like some Christians don't see a problem with approving of same sex marriage. I wonder how many will say this just 'proves' Episcopalians aren't 'real' Christians

This is not surprise since they allowed gay priests years ago.
 
Are you a Mennonite or a Quaker or a Jew or a Muslim or a Baptist or an Episcopalian or a Unitarian or a Mormon, etc.? Or none of them?

Doesn't matter what your answer is, or what you believe, there are billions of good people living as they see God's will and strongly disagree with whatever your belief system is. They are as sure you're wrong, perhaps doomed, as you are certain it's they who are wrong. That's all I need to "prove."

The final word will be that of God. Most of us who believe agree to that.
 
LOL, I'm pretty sure your church doctrine doesn't adhere to the letter of the scripture and I know you don't. Your church adheres to its interpretation of it, same as the Episcopal church.

Yes, and please tell us how someone "interprets" that SSM is a-okay in the Bible.
 
Proud of my church. Although, I'm pretty sure some Episcopal Churches have already been doing this for a while.

When I went to Catholic school, we always refered to the Episcopalians as the wealthy Catholics (because they used birth control) but without the inscense! Good on the Episcopals!
 
When I went to Catholic school, we always refered to the Episcopalians as the wealthy Catholics (because they used birth control) but without the inscense! Good on the Episcopals!

Episcopal Churches use incense as well in Mass / Liturgy. You are right about them being "wealthy Catholics" though. They are easily the most blue blooded denomination.
 
The final word will be that of God. Most of us who believe agree to that.

True enough. And if it was clear to honest, well meaning people, what that final word will be, we'd have only one religion, but we have thousands of variations. They duty, IMO, we owe each other is to respect those differences unless and until society attempts to impose a particular viewpoint on the rest of us.
 
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As a side note, one could argue that it is our unofficial state church as the Episcopal Church (a member of the Anglican Communion) was founded by some of our founding fathers...

And here all along I thought that the Episcopal Church was founded by the Church of England, but the Americans changed the name to the "Protestant Episcopal Church" after that unpleasantness back in 1776.

That all said, if you don't like the fact that the Episcopalians are extending the sacrament of marriage to same sex couples, then don't go to an Episcopal Church.

Fine for you to say, it sucks for the tens of thousands of faithful Episcopalians who have supported the Church all of their lives. The Episcopal Church's silliness has already driven whole diocese away with it's silliness "Remember all that stuff we told you before? Well, forget that." I hope the faithful continue to leave in droves and take their money with them.
 
Yes, and please tell us how someone "interprets" that SSM is a-okay in the Bible.

You should address that to Episcopalian leaders and clergy and policy makers, not me. I'm just noting those interpretations exist. It wasn't long ago a great many Christians believed interracial marriages were contrary to God's law and that the subordination of blacks was consistent with God's will. I will give those who held those views the benefit of the doubt that they were sincerely held and rooted in a genuine desire to worship according to their reading of the Bible.

So what does that mean? That people of good will and a legitimate desire to follow God's will as outlined in the Bible can and do read the Bible and interpret it differently. I don't intend to try to prove who is 'right' and who is 'wrong.'
 
And here all along I thought that the Episcopal Church was founded by the Church of England, but the Americans changed the name to the "Protestant Episcopal Church" after that unpleasantness back in 1776.

They split from the Anglican Church (remained in the communion) and founded the Episcopal Church.

Fine for you to say, it sucks for the tens of thousands of faithful Episcopalians who have supported the Church all of their lives. The Episcopal Church's silliness has already driven whole diocese away with it's silliness "Remember all that stuff we told you before? Well, forget that." I hope the faithful continue to leave in droves and take their money with them.

If you are a social conservative, then you are probably not an Episcopalian. Sure the church has last members over the last few decades, but so has every other denomination other than those that benefit from increased membership due to immigration. Why would you hope for the church to fail due to further declining membership? That seems like a fairly mean spirited position to me.
 
You should address that to Episcopalian leaders and clergy and policy makers, not me. I'm just noting those interpretations exist. It wasn't long ago a great many Christians believed interracial marriages were contrary to God's law and that the subordination of blacks was consistent with God's will. I will give those who held those views the benefit of the doubt that they were sincerely held and rooted in a genuine desire to worship according to their reading of the Bible.

So what does that mean? That people of good will and a legitimate desire to follow God's will as outlined in the Bible can and do read the Bible and interpret it differently. I don't intend to try to prove who is 'right' and who is 'wrong.'

It is a myth that " a great many Christians believed interracial marriages were contrary to God's law."

People are free to believe whatever they wish. My point is, there is no Biblical basis for SSM. "Christians" who support it, are doing so in direct contradiction to the teachings they allegedly base their faith on.
 
Yes, and please tell us how someone "interprets" that SSM is a-okay in the Bible.

It goes "We need butts in the pews because we'really running out of money".
 
I should have let the comment slide. One of the great things about the U.S. is we all get to practice our religion according to our own beliefs and consciences. I really have no interest in debating whose interpretation of the 100s of religions and 1,000s of sects is the correct one. The Episcopalians are one of those thousands. Good for them in my view. Others who have different views have many others to choose from.

you didn't answer my question please show me the verse and scripture that says gay marriage is ok.
no Episcopalians follow the bible so please backup your claim.

I will be waiting for verse and scripture.
 
It is a myth that " a great many Christians believed interracial marriages were contrary to God's law."

Then how did laws prohibiting it become law? The people supporting those laws were almost universally at least nominal Christians, large percentages of them weekly church goers, I'd guess nearly all the elected leaders were regular church members and all of them Christians. It's how it was for most of our history. Have you read some of the legal opinions supporting prohibitions? They were based on a reading of the Bible. E.g.

The Lovings were charged under Section 20-58 of the Virginia Code, which prohibited interracial couples from being married out of state and then returning to Virginia, and Section 20-59, which classified miscegenation as a felony, punishable by a prison sentence of between one and five years. The trial judge in the case, Leon M. Bazile, echoing Johann Friedrich Blumenbach's 18th-century interpretation of race, wrote:

Almighty God created the races white, black, yellow, malay and red, and he placed them on separate continents. And but for the interference with his arrangement there would be no cause for such marriages. The fact that he separated the races shows that he did not intend for the races to mix.

If you want to quibble over the meaning of "great many" then fine, but the trial judge clearly was expressing a sentiment that held broad approval by the people and the elected leaders, and the vast majority of those were "Christians."

People are free to believe whatever they wish. My point is, there is no Biblical basis for SSM. "Christians" who support it, are doing so in direct contradiction to the teachings they allegedly base their faith on.

What can I say. Others read that same Bible and come to different conclusions. Same as others read that same Bible and found support for white supremacy, slavery, and prohibitions against interracial marriage. On something completely unrelated, I bet you don't agree with those in my area who handle snakes. But I KNOW they believe their interpretation of the Bible is correct - they're willing to die on that belief, and often do die, only to have their sons take over the role of snake handler.
 
you didn't answer my question please show me the verse and scripture that says gay marriage is ok.
no Episcopalians follow the bible so please backup your claim.

I will be waiting for verse and scripture.

LOL, of course you're right and they are wrong. And BILLIONS out there are convinced you're wrong and they're right, many of them Christians.

If you want me to defend your or anyone else's interpretation of the bible or their religion, you will have a long wait. I make no claims to having the definitive understanding of God's will.

As I said, the great thing about this country is you're free to have and live your life as you see fit in accordance with your religion, and those with different beliefs and religions are entitled to that same right.
 
I'll just say I don't think that's fair.
Life isn't fair, God on the other hand is fair and is just.

My brother is a very religious person and also gay. The two aren't incompatible, at least not in his view or the view of the church he attends.
Please show me where I said that a gay person could not be saved?

You will disagree, and that's fine and why there are so many different religions and denominations and even practices within each denomination. All of them are in my view doing their best to interpret God's will and fundamentally good people trying to do the right thing have throughout all of human history had deep disagreements on what that is. I'm not prepared to say that there is any one of them that has it correct.

To re-write the word of God or make it say something other than what it says is heretical.
again you have failed to post scripture and verse that supports that gay marriage is ok please do so.
again I will be waiting.
 
LOL, of course you're right and they are wrong. And BILLIONS out there are convinced you're wrong and they're right, many of them Christians.

If you want me to defend your or anyone else's interpretation of the bible or their religion, you will have a long wait. I make no claims to having the definitive understanding of God's will.

As I said, the great thing about this country is you're free to have and live your life as you see fit in accordance with your religion, and those with different beliefs and religions are entitled to that same right.

please quote verse and scripture what it says that marriage is anything but a man and a women like you claimed.
I am waiting.

anyting else you posts is just distraction arguments because you can't backup what you said.

No I want you to defend YOUR interpretation of the bible. so please quote the bible verse and scripture that agrees with you.
I am still waiting for you to prove to me that the bible says that gay marriage is ok.
 
My father used to say that the greatest strength of the Episcopal Church was also its greatest weakness: Its attempts to be all things to all people. So you have those who are "low-church" and who regard themselves as Protestants and call their rectors a "minister" and others who are "High-Church" and regard themselves as "Anglo-Catholic" and call their rectors "Father," and etc.

High church would be my preference. Since Vatican II it's more Catholic than the Roman Catholic Church.
 
Life isn't fair, God on the other hand is fair and is just.

Please show me where I said that a gay person could not be saved?

To re-write the word of God or make it say something other than what it says is heretical.
again you have failed to post scripture and verse that supports that gay marriage is ok please do so.
again I will be waiting.

Keep waiting. I don't mean this to insult you, but I really don't care about (am indifferent to) your interpretation of the Bible, and who you think has it wrong, and I'm not going to defend or argue on behalf of those you disagree with. All I'm noting is I believe (my own opinion is) that men and women of good will and a legitimate desire to live according to God's will DO (billions of them) disagree with you and are as positive you are wrong as you are certain they are.

The end.
 
Christians in name only. If you don't adhere to scripture, you're a fake. The Bible wasn't meant to be redefined or rewritten...only reread.

So I am guessing you stand in Solidarity with your faction of Christianity when it refuses to marry those who have been divorced to a different spouse other than their first... is that correct?
 
I'm not surprised. MY Mil is a closet Liberal who was married to an extreme Conservative until his recent death. She's an Episcopalian who can give communion.

How dare she be able to give communion right???

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They split from the Anglican Church (remained in the communion) and founded the Episcopal Church.

The Church of England WAS the Episcopal Church before the name change and the revolutionary war. The reason they changed the name is because anything English was radioactive to the Americans and anything American was radioactive to the British, but otherwise it was the same bunch, the same clergy, same congregations.


If you are a social conservative, then you are probably not an Episcopalian.

Not anymore. Heretics like John Spong saw to that.

Sure the church has last members over the last few decades, but so has every other denomination other than those that benefit from increased membership due to immigration.

They've lost members because of their departure from scripture AND their own 39 Articles of Religion.

Why would you hope for the church to fail due to further declining membership? That seems like a fairly mean spirited position to me.

The Episcopal Church stopped being a Church a long time ago, it's just a social club.
 
The Episcopal Church stopped being a Church a long time ago, it's just a social club.

This will come as a great surprise to a good number of my religious friends who attend the local Episcopalian Church. I'm sure they'll be glad when I let them know, so they can find a 'real' church.....LOL.

As an aside, this is why I avoid religious debates in person like the plague. By its very nature, there can be no "proof" offered in those debates, only opinions based on faith. So my working rule (outside my closest friends and family) is to not say one word.... Just let the conversation take another course or exit the conversation.
 
High church would be my preference. Since Vatican II it's more Catholic than the Roman Catholic Church.

LOL, well, I'm not sure I'd go that far.

I was reared exceedingly High-Church. There are Episcopal churches that are very socially conservative as well as those which are liberal.
 
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