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Polygamous Montana Trio Applies For Wedding License

So then, by that, you agree that people OUTSIDE of the government should have the right to refuse service to blacks based on "religious freedom" ??
From a federal standpoint, yes. People do have that right. They have the right to refuse service to blacks for any reason. There is no constitutional right to be treated equal by your peers, and no real federal authority to outlaw discrimination.

The reason you can't refuse service to blacks at a restaurant isn't because the government protects people from discrimination, but because the government protects interstate commerce, and refusing service to blacks is just not good business.
 
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From a federal standpoint, yes. People do have that right. They have the right to refuse service to blacks for any reason. There is no constitutional right to be treated equal by your peers, and no real federal authority to outlaw discrimination.

People do not have the right to wage aggressive economic warfare, with the assistance of public infrastructure, against any group let alone minorities.
 
People do not have the right to wage aggressive economic warfare, with the assistance of public infrastructure, against any group let alone minorities.
You replied too quick for me to finish my edit. See above.
 
You replied too quick for me to finish my edit. See above.

The reason you can't refuse service to blacks at a restaurant isn't because the government protects people from discrimination, but because the government protects interstate commerce, and refusing service to blacks is just not good business.

It's not just about good business, it's about waging war with the assistance of public infrastructure against minority groups. That's bad for business and society. It's harming society under the guise of a business "open to the public". If you want a private club that excludes blacks, that's your business but if you're open to the public it's public business.

Economics aside, we as a people, have every right to ban such behavior from public business because it's harmful to society.
 
How dare you define quality and concept for people that disagree with you! How dare you attempt to impose YOUR definitions of marriage and equality on others! WTF kind of hypocrite are you?

It is none the less true. Polygamy stems from a time when women were subjugated and treated as inferior. We have advanced from that primitive behavior and I see no reason to go back to it.
 
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It is noene the less true. Polygamy stems from a time when women were subjugated and treated as inferior. We have advanced from that primitive behavior and I see no reason to go back to it.
Its rather ironic that you...a champion of homosexuality and gay marriage...feel you have the right to impose your definitions on others. THIS is ok...but not THAT.

Gotcha....blatant hypocrisy at its finest.
 
I don't need to back up anything. My religion dictates that even if there's no evidence you should just have faith in my comments.

If you were making a religious statement about your own religion, then you would be fine. But you are making claims for others, thus you must back your statement up or be dismissed as making it up.
 
The name change isn't a requirement even today. And children typically take whichever last name the parents decide to put on the birth certificate.

And that is WITHOUT polygamy. Another issue that is not really an issue specific to polygamy.

Also, as long as it is not YOUR family tree..... what business is it of yours?

Ironically, by making gay marriage legal, it will ultimately serve to end the concept of legal marriage altogether. Unintended (or intended) consequences will abound.
 
If 500 sane, consenting adult females want to marry one guy in one giant service - fine with me. Weird...but still fine with me.

Who sane, consenting adults marry is their business...AND NOT THE STATE'S OR ANYONE ELSE'S.
 
Its rather ironic that you...a champion of homosexuality and gay marriage...feel you have the right to impose your definitions on others. THIS is ok...but not THAT.

Gotcha....blatant hypocrisy at its finest.

It has nothing to do with what I say or want. It is society that has advanced I was merely stating a fact for you. Equality of the sexes is mainstream in most modern societies.
 
It's not just about good business, it's about waging war with the assistance of public infrastructure against minority groups. That's bad for business and society. It's harming society under the guise of a business "open to the public". If you want a private club that excludes blacks, that's your business but if you're open to the public it's public business.

Economics aside, we as a people, have every right to ban such behavior from public business because it's harmful to society.
We were talking about legal rights. The federal government has no mandate to ensure people are not discriminated against or to ensure that society is not harmed by that discrimination. The do have the authority to regulate interstate commerce. The point was that legally speaking, it was all about business.

Yes, of course, the true motivation was otherwise, but they had no power to address that directly.
 
We were talking about legal rights. The federal government has no mandate to ensure people are not discriminated against or to ensure that society is not harmed by that discrimination. The do have the authority to regulate interstate commerce. The point was that legally speaking, it was all about business.

Yes, of course, the true motivation was otherwise, but they had no power to address that directly.

People have a right to be treated equally under the law. If a business chooses to be open to the public we have entered a legal discussion.
 
How can you have an equal partnership with polygamy? That is the crux of a modern marriage. Polygamy is going backwards.

"Going backwards"

Freedom is forwards compared to people being told how they are supposed to live their life.

If people are agreeing to a polygamous union.... they are aware of their "partnership level".
 
WHy? WHy not three? Why not four? What has CLEARLY been determined is that the definition of 'normal' is fluid and can mean essentially whatever people want it to mean.

I dont have a 'problem' with two people of the same gender being together. I dont care that two consenting adults choose to be together. I accept the courts decisions, in spite fo the fact that it undoes 38 states constitutions and laws. That IS a matter for the courts. That doesnt make it 'right' and it certainly doesnt make it 'normal' (one need look no further than the gay community at large to see the extremes of 'normal'). But I celebrate your right to be gay...even though I cant see it defined in ANY manner as 'normal'.

And.... we need to get away from this idea that everyone else should be forced to comply with societal "Norms"
 
The modern concept of marriage is an equal partnership which is impossible in polygamy.

And to those who wish it, that is their choice.

Are you saying that the force of the government should be used to deny someone legal recognition based on a "theory" of "equal partnership".

And... how exactly is "equal partnership" not possible in polygamy?

If I am in union with 3 other women.... are we not 1/4 "equal" in this union?
 
Too much of a good thing isn't a good thing.

With ever increasing degrees of freedom come a proportional degree of responsibility exercising that freedom. The latter is severely lacking, yet continued indulgence of the former is demanded. Between the two trends there's an ensuing collision, where everyone in the society and the society itself suffers. These are the crossroads where I believe we've arrived.

Then it is settled....

You do not favor freedom of the individual.... but Freedom of the "Mob" to impose their standards upon all, even those who do not agree, up to and including denying them equal protection under the law, as long as the majority says so.
 
From a federal standpoint, yes. People do have that right. They have the right to refuse service to blacks for any reason. There is no constitutional right to be treated equal by your peers, and no real federal authority to outlaw discrimination.

The reason you can't refuse service to blacks at a restaurant isn't because the government protects people from discrimination, but because the government protects interstate commerce, and refusing service to blacks is just not good business.

So then, you are saying that the government has more of a right than the individual to discriminate against someone based upon "eww icky gheys!!"
 
It is none the less true. Polygamy stems from a time when women were subjugated and treated as inferior. We have advanced from that primitive behavior and I see no reason to go back to it.

Again... you aren't supporting any reason to deny Freedom to a group of people who CHOOSE to live in this manner.
 
Ironically, by making gay marriage legal, it will ultimately serve to end the concept of legal marriage altogether. Unintended (or intended) consequences will abound.

If that is what you think.

I personally think that people who believe as you do are the reason why Jim Crow laws stuck around for so long.

Those who argued for them also believed that the entire country was going to fall apart without those laws.

They were wrong.

And so are you.
 
People have a right to be treated equally under the law. If a business chooses to be open to the public we have entered a legal discussion.

And this entire discussion stemmed from Taylor defending the right of magistrates to refuse to perform marriage licensing duties under the dumb ass "Religious Freedoms" laws some states, including my own (despite Gubernatorial veto) have passed.
 
The modern concept of marriage is an equal partnership which is impossible in polygamy.

You're kidding, right? Are you saying that you couldn't place equal percentages to any combination of people?

Tim-
 
And this entire discussion stemmed from Taylor defending the right of magistrates to refuse to perform marriage licensing duties under the dumb ass "Religious Freedoms" laws some states, including my own (despite Gubernatorial veto) have passed.

That's nice, we still need to recognize that opposing racial discrimination in public business is a matter of equality under the laws that regulate public businesses.
 
And this entire discussion stemmed from Taylor defending the right of magistrates to refuse to perform marriage licensing duties under the dumb ass "Religious Freedoms" laws some states, including my own (despite Gubernatorial veto) have passed.

This ruling, and specifically Kennedy's reluctance to place narrow definitions of the "free exercise thereof" in his majority opinion, when, lets face it, it is kind of a really important thing to overlook for someone so well versed in the constitution, suggests to me, that, he knew full-well that this was going to cause a lot of problems with an actual enumerated right of freedom of religion. What he effectively said without parsing of words, was that, people of conscious are free to hold their views, free to share their views, but not free to practice their views outside the "appropriate" confines of there homes and places of worship. He basically spat on the free exercise thereof portion of the 1st Amendment. One might argue that freedom from religion is a valid argument in favor of public accommodation laws, but it goes much farther than just freedom of religion, IMO. The principle of the 1st Amendment was so important it became the very first enumerated right. The really liberal among us have been trying forever to whittle that down and until a few days ago have never really succeeded. The right to free speech, of association, and of religion and freedom of the press is NOT to be abridged by the government, not just for a little while, it means FOREVER and EVER!

American's have allowed their 1st Amendment freedoms to become less and less broad over the last few 100 years by this and that form of legislative action designed with the sole purpose to afford government some level of control, re: the commerce clause, separation of church and state, public accommodation, and many other abridgments that aren't called that, they're merely proper and necessary, and those narratives by an ever increasing dumbing of the electorate swallow it hook line and sinker. In political theory this is called inching, or some have called it nudging, but the concept is more fully understood when taken in totality. The truth is that we really don't have the freedoms and liberty once guaranteed to us because politicians and an all too willing electorate find that when someone kills someone with a gun, Oh damn now we need "regulations" to keep them safe, and on, and on, and on it goes. Freedom of speech, association, has seen the same inching over the last 100 years. Look at states rights.. Talk about the most egregious examples..

Gruber was right... American's as a whole are too stupid to know what's good for them.


Tim-
 

it probably will not be stopped in the long run.ssm marriage is protected by the constitution,i fail to see how multiple spouse marriages would not be protected under the 14th as well,the only ones that would not be protected would be marriage to an animal or marriage to a child,as neither can be consenting which would fall under due process of law.
 
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