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Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays[W:297]

Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

I suppose it's up to the office to make sure that they are able to issue licenses to these groups.

Not how our laws work, at all. They would face a legitimate lawsuit. The first claim would be that the person who had to wait, even if just for a few minutes or even seconds for someone else to serve them, was being discriminated against (because they are) and that causes emotional damage/embarrassment, etc.
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

Too late, by then they'll all be indoctrinated

You may as well give in and partake in some gay studies yourself. I don't charge *quite* as much as your school tax...

Which is why my children will rule their children.
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

I don't know that anyone was hired to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples, that just recently became part of the job description. The office could make it a job requirement for all clerks, but I don't know that they're required to so long as they can work out a solution that keeps everyone at least somewhat happy. Clearly, it would need to be a requirement for some.
I would think if a clerk refused to do the job they would be fired and replaced with another who would do the job.
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

It's really simple. Would it be okay for someone at the DMV to claim a religious exemption to having to issue a license to a woman, so long as someone else was available to wait on any woman who came through the DMV? What about a DMV person refusing to issue a driver's license to any Muslim or Mexican? Would that be legally okay so long as someone else was available (and there is always someone else in every DMV I've ever been in) to deal with those particular types of people?
One would have to identify the law(s) that make this illegal (if any) and determine whether the two situations are indeed analogous. For example, I don't know of any religion that would frown upon issuing a drivers license to someone with Mexican heritage.
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

It's really simple. Would it be okay for someone at the DMV to claim a religious exemption to having to issue a license to a woman, so long as someone else was available to wait on any woman who came through the DMV? What about a DMV person refusing to issue a driver's license to any Muslim or Mexican? Would that be legally okay so long as someone else was available (and there is always someone else in every DMV I've ever been in) to deal with those particular types of people?
I would just fire or suspend without pay a clerk who refused anyone. The AG should be removed from the state as well for telling state employees not to do their jobs.
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

Not how our laws work, at all. They would face a legitimate lawsuit. The first claim would be that the person who had to wait, even if just for a few minutes or even seconds for someone else to serve them, was being discriminated against (because they are) and that causes emotional damage/embarrassment, etc.
Probably true, but I don't think "equal protection" means that two groups have the exact same wait times (within a few minutes or seconds).
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

I would just fire or suspend without pay a clerk who refused anyone. The AG should be removed from the state as well for telling state employees not to do their jobs.
Of course, you'd also be sued under the Texas Religious Freedom Restoration Act. Perhaps these clerks are in for a lawsuit no matter what action they take.
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

Of course, you'd also be sued under the Texas Religious Freedom Restoration Act. Perhaps these clerks are in for a lawsuit no matter what action they take.
Why would I be sued? I would suspend the employee for not doing there job? I would not be suing them because they have a religious belief. Non issuance of a license because a couple is gay is discrimination and it would break laws. Being religious does not give a person the right to break the law or not do their job. Government is not telling them what to believe and what church you go to.
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

Of course, you'd also be sued under the Texas Religious Freedom Restoration Act. Perhaps these clerks are in for a lawsuit no matter what action they take.

I find it hard to believe that in the context of allowing discrimination that the religious freedom act will withstand the scrutiny of constant court battles when taken to task. It sounds like yet another issue that will rise to the top and be struck down.
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

One would have to identify the law(s) that make this illegal (if any) and determine whether the two situations are indeed analogous. For example, I don't know of any religion that would frown upon issuing a drivers license to someone with Mexican heritage.

Doesn't matter if you don't know of any. Religion doesn't have to be known in order to be a protected belief/religion.

The law is simple, antidiscrimination laws, public accommodation laws. The government cannot discriminate against people and any state employee that refuses to serve someone due to their race, religion, or any other such characteristics/traits just because they don't approve is subject to lawsuits, as well as punishment by the agency employing them.

Seriously, this has been covered before, not all that long ago in fact.

Louisiana justice who refused interracial marriage resigns - CNN.com

"Bardwell, speaking to CNN affiliate WBRZ, said he was advised "that I needed to step down because they was going to take me to court, and I was going to lose.""

Federal antidiscrimination laws make this illegal. You cannot refuse to serve someone who legally has a right to the service you provide, not as a state employee.
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

Probably true, but I don't think "equal protection" means that two groups have the exact same wait times (within a few minutes or seconds).

Actually, if the only reason their wait times are different is because of something like their race, sex, religion, relative races, sexes, or religions, then yes, that is covered under "equal protection".
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

Of course, you'd also be sued under the Texas Religious Freedom Restoration Act. Perhaps these clerks are in for a lawsuit no matter what action they take.

Maybe you should read it, particularly the last section on Civil Rights. That Act does not protect a person (unless they are operating specifically in the function of a religious entity at that time, which is definitely not the clerk of the court or a judge or JoP) from prosecution when they violate another person's civil rights. In other words, they cannot use their religion as an excuse to discriminate against people.

§ 110.011. CIVIL RIGHTS. (a) Except as provided in
Subsection (b), this chapter does not establish or eliminate a
defense to a civil action or criminal prosecution under a federal or
state civil rights law.
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

Why would I be sued? I would suspend the employee for not doing there job? I would not be suing them because they have a religious belief.
Because there may be a way that the government can fulfill its interest in issuing licenses without firing people because they refuse to act in a manner contrary to their religious beliefs.

Non issuance of a license because a couple is gay is discrimination and it would break laws. Being religious does not give a person the right to break the law or not do their job. Government is not telling them what to believe and what church you go to.
Not talking about non issuance, as discussed earlier.
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

It would if it was shown that girls of any age were already allowed to make adult level decision absent for their parent's or guardian's consent.

*not* getting an abortion is also an adult level decision. The responsibilities are actually quite more serious once the kid is born
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

Which is why my children will rule their children.

oh homeschooling is it? Perhaps you could form an amish conclave, totally cut off from the 'evils' of the real world
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

Because there may be a way that the government can fulfill its interest in issuing licenses without firing people because they refuse to act in a manner contrary to their religious beliefs.


Not talking about non issuance, as discussed earlier.

The Government cannot allow employees to say get screwed I will not do my job because I believe otherwise. What if clerk who are Christian decided they won't issue to Muslims or atheists decide they will not issue to anyone who is getting married in any church or if white clerks would not issue to Asians or Blacks. What if clerks of German decent would not issue to anyone who isn't German. No you suspend the first clerk who does not issue to a gay and the problem is over.
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

I find it hard to believe that in the context of allowing discrimination that the religious freedom act will withstand the scrutiny of constant court battles when taken to task. It sounds like yet another issue that will rise to the top and be struck down.
With respect to the RFA, I believe that the plaintiffs get to pick the venue, so wouldn't "the top" in this instance would be the men and women that the people of Texas have elected to sit on their Supreme Court?
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

Because there may be a way that the government can fulfill its interest in issuing licenses without firing people because they refuse to act in a manner contrary to their religious beliefs.


Not talking about non issuance, as discussed earlier.

They are a government employee. They cannot refuse to do their job because of religious beliefs. I have provided you with the evidence of this fact. Their job is issuing marriage licenses. They do not get to pick and choose who they issue those licenses to just because they have religious beliefs against certain couples, certain groups. They deserve to be fired for not doing their job.

Ever notice how this was never suggested recently to be okay when it came to issuing licenses to interracial couples or interfaith couples? It is because there is obvious animosity towards same sex couples, which is wrong.
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

Doesn't matter if you don't know of any. Religion doesn't have to be known in order to be a protected belief/religion.
The belief must be sincerely held.

The law is simple, antidiscrimination laws, public accommodation laws. The government cannot discriminate against people and any state employee that refuses to serve someone due to their race, religion, or any other such characteristics/traits just because they don't approve is subject to lawsuits, as well as punishment by the agency employing them.
Under what law??

Seriously, this has been covered before, not all that long ago in fact.

Louisiana justice who refused interracial marriage resigns - CNN.com

"Bardwell, speaking to CNN affiliate WBRZ, said he was advised "that I needed to step down because they was going to take me to court, and I was going to lose.""

Federal antidiscrimination laws make this illegal. You cannot refuse to serve someone who legally has a right to the service you provide, not as a state employee.
That case has nothing to do with religion.
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

oh homeschooling is it? Perhaps you could form an amish conclave, totally cut off from the 'evils' of the real world

Why should they be completely isolated from those that they will one day rule over?
You would call it being their employers. But, the concept is still the same.
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

With respect to the RFA, I believe that the plaintiffs get to pick the venue, so wouldn't "the top" in this instance would be the men and women that the people of Texas have elected to sit on their Supreme Court?

No, actually they don't. Almost certainly this would be filed under a federal complaint. Likely anyone denied or even just delayed a marriage license would file a federal lawsuit, not a state one. This would put it in federal court. Just like this case was looking at:

Governor calls for firing of justice in interracial marriage case - CNN.com

This is a ridiculous.
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

*not* getting an abortion is also an adult level decision. The responsibilities are actually quite more serious once the kid is born

Either way, the states in which a girl can get an abortion at any age have in essence stated that they can make that adult decision own their own.
So, how is making the adult decision to get married such a stretch?
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

The belief must be sincerely held.

Under what law??

That case has nothing to do with religion.

Doesn't matter where the belief comes from. The belief is there, and sincerely held. This whole "religion is protected" thing is taking the 1st Amendment much farther than it was ever meant to go, and the SCOTUS ruled against such things. You cannot use your religious beliefs to justify breaking the law, discriminating against others, particularly in the performance of your duties as a state/government employee.
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

Why should they be completely isolated from those that they will one day rule over?
You would call it being their employers. But, the concept is still the same.

rule over like how the right wing fanatics are ruling over us on gay rights?

i know that having social skills and compassion are anathema to corporate overlords, but the odds of attaining such a position are so slim, those kids would be better off actually integrating with the 21st century, whether you approve of it or not
 
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