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Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays[W:297]

Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

Arguing that you can't do something new because of what currently exists isn't a winning argument. States would simply have to pass legislation removing themselves from the marriage licensing business and eliminating all State tax and other State benefits that accrue to holding that license. That does not impinge on the feds ability to issue licenses or for States to recognize those licenses or licenses from other States for other purposes.

That's not an argument I'm making. The Feds could, arguably should, take over licensing. Or better get the government out of the licensing business altogether. The only real role for the state is to insure that both sides don't misrepresent themselves - i.e. if someone says they aren't married that they really aren't married, to adjudicate cases where the marriage contract isn't complied with and to insure that minors are cared for. Outside of that people should be able to craft their own marriage agreement - even if it's to say "we'll use a government drafted template contract."

The reality is that it won't happen. Any state stupid enough to suspend issuing all marriage licenses is going to get its ass kicked both by the Feds and it's own citizens. I know if I was looking to marry and NY indefinitely halted issuance of marriage licenses over this my next stop after the NY clerk's office would be the courthouse.
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

Clearly, we disagree. But I'll defer to your apparent credentials as a jurist in order to close the argument.

You don't have to be a constitutional scholar to know animus is a basic principle of constitutional law. I will also predict the future for you:

1. If clerks in Texas refuse to issue marriage licenses to same sex couples, they will be sued.

2. The will lose in court.

3. The social conservatives then will bitch about activist judges ignoring the fact that those clerks were violating a basic tenant of constitutional law.
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

No less than 14 times SCOTUS has determined marriage to be a right. And now 15 times.

That's good. Since I've had my eyes on these 14 year old Asian twins for a while now.
They're both female so you'll probably disapprove. But, how does my marrying them affect you?
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

A fair degree of proof... for what? A constitutional crisis? Lmao. This isn't the first 5-4 vote or for that matter a rare one. It's not a constitutional crisis.



You can do that, however, you'll still be going against the majority of those learned words. ;)

Well, I can't help that you chose to ignore the words of Supreme Court Justices.

“I write separately to call attention to this Court’s threat to American democracy.”

t is not of special importance to me what the law says about marriage. It is of overwhelming importance, however, who it is that rules me. Today’s decree says that my Ruler, and the Ruler of 320 million Americans coast-to-coast, is a majority of the nine lawyers on the Supreme Court. The opinion in these cases is the furthest extension in fact—and the furthest extension one can even imagine—of the Court’s claimed power to create ‘liberties’ that the Constitution and its Amendments neglect to mention. This practice of constitutional revision by an unelected committee of nine, always accompanied (as it is today) by extravagant praise of liberty, robs the People of the most important liberty they asserted in the Declaration of Independence and won in the Revolution of 1776: the freedom to govern themselves.”

“This is a naked judicial claim to legislative—indeed, super-legislative—power; a claim fundamentally at odds with our system of government. Except as limited by a constitutional prohibition agreed to by the People, the States are free to adopt whatever laws they like, even those that offend the esteemed Justices’ ‘reasoned judgment.’ A system of government that makes the People subordinate to a committee of nine unelected lawyers does not deserve to be called a democracy.”

"It is not about whether, in my judgment, the institution of marriage should be changed to include same-sex couples," he said. "It is instead about whether, in our democratic republic, that decision should rest with the people acting through their elected representatives, or with five lawyers who happen to hold commissions authorizing them to resolve legal disputes under the law."


Sorry, but those words trump your amateur opinion.
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

Well, I can't help that you chose to ignore the words of Supreme Court Justices.

Emotional jibber jabber from the side that lost. Get serious, this isn't a constitutional crisis anymore than Loving v. Virginia was. :shrug:
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

Emotional jibber jabber from the side that lost. Get serious, this isn't a constitutional crisis anymore than Loving v. Virginia was. :shrug:

LOL.

I rest my case.
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

You don't have to be a constitutional scholar to know animus is a basic principle of constitutional law. I will also predict the future for you:

1. If clerks in Texas refuse to issue marriage licenses to same sex couples, they will be sued.

2. The will lose in court.

3. The social conservatives then will bitch about activist judges ignoring the fact that those clerks were violating a basic tenant of constitutional law.

One and two may be correct, but number three? We are so far from constitutional law here it isn't even funny. This is the very definition of pyrrhic victory.
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

That's good. Since I've had my eyes on these 14 year old Asian twins for a while now.
They're both female so you'll probably disapprove. But, how does my marrying them affect you?

Stupid argument. A 14 year old, just like a dog, chimp, or inanimate object, cannot consent. Legal consent by both parties is a legal prerequisite for any marriage.
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

One and two may be correct, but number three? We are so far from constitutional law here it isn't even funny. This is the very definition of pyrrhic victory.

Constitutional law 101: What is an is not constitutional is determined by the federal court system, not by some dude going by the name of clownboy on an internet forum.
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

Emotional jibber jabber from the side that lost. Get serious, this isn't a constitutional crisis anymore than Loving v. Virginia was. :shrug:

Not a constitutional crisis, but rather the moment the camel finally announces itself in the tent. We left constitutional ages ago.
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

Stupid argument. A 14 year old, just like a dog, chimp, or inanimate object, cannot consent. Legal consent by both parties is a legal prerequisite for any marriage.

How is it possible a fourteen year old can't consent? I'm pretty sure my fourteen year old daughter doesn't consent to cleaning her room.

I'm also pretty sure that seventeen year old that was forced to take medical treatment by the state didn't consent to it.

I suppose making up a standard completely divorced from reality makes sense though.

At least be honest and say that children can consent, but it is being overwritten. This "children can not consent" crap is bull****.
 
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Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

Constitutional law 101: What is an is not constitutional is determined by the federal court system, not by some dude going by the name of clownboy on an internet forum.

Nor some dude on the internet calling himself SouthernDemocrat. But then look at my sig for the words of the CHIEF JUSTICE of that federal court you reference.
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

LOL.

I rest my case.

Your case was you pretending that the words of 1 justice who was never going to vote in favor of gay marriage somehow implies a crisis is afoot. It doesn't. Hell, you could add Thomas, Scalia and Alito to the mix and all you'd have is 4 Conservative justices who were never going to side with gay marriage. That does not reflect a constitutional crisis. :lol: Are you even trying?
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

Your case was you pretending that the words of 1 justice who was never going to vote in favor of gay marriage somehow implies a crisis is afoot. It doesn't. Hell, you could add Thomas, Scalia and Alito to the mix and all you'd have is 4 Conservative justices who were never going to side with gay marriage. That does not reflect a constitutional crisis. :lol: Are you even trying?

There was more than one Justice's quotes there Hatuey.

And again, your unqualified amateur opinion has been noted.

:peace
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

There was more than one Justice's quotes there Hatuey.

That's why I mentioned Scalia, Thomas and Alito.

And again, your unqualified amateur opinion has been noted.

*and supported by more justices and lawyers than yours.

You can keep pretending this is some sort of constitutional crisis, however it simply isn't and I'd be surprised if this was still in discussion beyond minutia by the end of the month. :shrug:
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

You can keep pretending this is some sort of constitutional crisis, however it simply isn't and I'd be surprised if this was still in discussion beyond minutia by the end of the month. :shrug:

Yeah, the announcement by the SCOTUS that the constitution no longer matters in their decision making process is met by the sound of crickets. And you think this is a good thing? Of course you do.
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

That's why I mentioned Scalia, Thomas and Alito.



*and supported by more justices and lawyers than yours.

You can keep pretending this is some sort of constitutional crisis, however it simply isn't and I'd be surprised if this was still in discussion beyond minutia by the end of the month. :shrug:

Have a nice day Hatuey. :2razz:
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

Yeah, the announcement by the SCOTUS that the constitution no longer matters in their decision making process is met by the sound of crickets. And you think this is a good thing? Of course you do.

Lmao, save the histrionics for somebody who didn't predict exactly how this would happen years in advance. 5 justices made a decision based on their understanding of what the constitution allows. 4 made a decision on their understanding of the same document. One of those justices, a Conservative, gave an emotional speech to show how against the entire matter he was. That tends to happen. End of story, no constitutional crisis. By next month, all people will be doing is bitching that they lost. It happens. :shrug:
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

Stupid argument. A 14 year old, just like a dog, chimp, or inanimate object, cannot consent. Legal consent by both parties is a legal prerequisite for any marriage.

In 37 states a girl of any age can consent to having an abortion at any age without her parent's permission. Why shouldn't they be able to consent to marriage? Of the two, marriage is less traumatizing.
Also, a few months ago a judge in NY ruled that two chimpanzees had "legal person" status.
Chimpanzees granted petition to hear 'legal persons' status in court | World news | The Guardian
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

That's not an argument I'm making. The Feds could, arguably should, take over licensing. Or better get the government out of the licensing business altogether. The only real role for the state is to insure that both sides don't misrepresent themselves - i.e. if someone says they aren't married that they really aren't married, to adjudicate cases where the marriage contract isn't complied with and to insure that minors are cared for. Outside of that people should be able to craft their own marriage agreement - even if it's to say "we'll use a government drafted template contract."

The reality is that it won't happen. Any state stupid enough to suspend issuing all marriage licenses is going to get its ass kicked both by the Feds and it's own citizens. I know if I was looking to marry and NY indefinitely halted issuance of marriage licenses over this my next stop after the NY clerk's office would be the courthouse.

That's fair - and we agree - I've been saying for ages, and ever since I've been a member on this site, that the government should not be in the marriage business in the 21st century, period. There is no compelling government rationale for them to be in the marriage business and their involvement only complicates the freedom of choice individuals should have in choosing how to manage, organize and live their private lives.

Sure, it would take a great deal of willpower and ability to withstand upheaval, but if this isn't the opportunity to do it then there never will be one and that's a great opportunity lost, in my view.
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

[h=1]Paxton: State workers can deny licenses to same-sex couples[/h]
Here we go the first actual decent from the Joy. I think this is doomed before it starts. There is no end to hate and judgement IMO. Thoughts.

It is a waste of Texas taxpayer money to litigate this. It's not hate. It's a politician putting himself in an attractive light with his constituency.
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

Oh, I'm sorry. What was I thinking consulting a dictionary when discussing the definition of a word? :roll:

Great comeback, by the way. This way you don't actually have to address the fact most of those who are in opposition to same sex marriage are trying to redefine marriage to subjugate others in violation of the 1st Amendment.

Notice Countryboy didn't offer any other definition.
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

I expect better from Texas.

Why? Texas usually leads the way in obnoxious, hate-filled nonsense.
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

Are there any circumstances in which the state can deny a person a gun license, in violation of the very real right enumerated in the 2nd Amendment, without them having broken any laws?
 
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