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Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays[W:297]

Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

But there's a lot of people out there who aren't and there are far too many shyster lawyers who will take on discrimination cases, hoping for a big payday.
I don't think there's a big payday. Lawyers tend to take these cases not because it can make them a lot of money, but because they belong to some political advocacy group.
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

No, it's not at all difficult. Have everyone sign in upon entering. Assign people to a particular window, or give them a number for the clerk to call. Clerks issue licenses to whoever comes to their window, or to all numbers to which they've been assigned. Done.

never mind the areas that only have one clerk

should we do this in other areas too?
doctors? waitress/waiters? schools? employments?

no thanks ill just stick with equal rights and everybody playing by the same rules instead of trying to invent special rules and rights for some.

a LEGAL marriage has nothing to do with my Christianity

and I know this doesnt apply to you but its just a question to expose thier dishonest hate and bigotry

where was all this crying for interracial couples or couples getting a nonreligious wedding or a wedding under a different religion . . .

its all made up anyway and theres no religious basis for it let alone a legal one. Its very easy to see through thier bigotry and it has nothing to do with religion.
 
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Sherbert v. Verner seems to apply here. The RFRA states that its primary purpose is to restore the compelling interest standard the Court used in Sherbert. The case concerned a Seventh-Day Adventist who was fired because she would not work on Saturdays, and then denied unemployment benefits by the state. The Court made clear that government action which forces a person to abandon a religious belief to get work violates the First Amendment, unless the government can prove it serves a "compelling interest."

"[N]ot only is it apparent that appellant's declared ineligibility for benefits derives solely from the practice of her religion, but the pressure upon her to forego that practice is unmistakable. The ruling forces her to choose between following the precepts of her religion and forfeiting benefits, on the one hand, and abandoning one of the precepts of her religion in order to accept work, on the other hand. Governmental imposition of such a choice puts the same kind of burden upon the free exercise of religion as would a fine imposed against appellant for her Saturday worship."

Texas has an RFRA, as do quite a few other states, and I doubt those laws allow government employees to be forced to abandon the precepts of their religion as the price of keeping their jobs. But I would like to see states go much further yet. As Justice Scalia pointedly noted, the Court has no power to enforce its judgments. I hope that any state where a majority disapproves of same-sex marriage will refuse to comply with Obergefell's flagrantly lawless command. I'd like to see this equally lawless president try to order troops into a dozen states to force them to obey an unconstitutional dictate which deserves no one's respect, and which is a vile insult to democracy.

Pretty sure Sherbert does not apply, nor does the Texas RFRA.
 
where are all the clerks that cried about marriages for:
non-religious couples
interracial couples
inter-religious couples
couples of a different religion of thier own
couples getting remarried
etc etc

weird the crying wasnt the same but now its gay marriage BOOM!!! its the end of the world . . . its easy to see bigotry when you try to hide it so poorly

im a christian and dont recall every reading anything in the bible or being shown anything that deals with legal marriage . . . hmmmmm
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

As I've said, this isn't what happens or is necessary in many county clerks offices. We were the only ones in the office besides the clerk the whole 20/30 minutes it took to get our license typed up. One person was there. What if that person had not approved of our marriage on religious grounds? Why should we have had to delay our plans (which would have cut into my leave period) just because someone had wanted to refuse to do their job?
I've already said numerous times that anything that causes an undue burden would likely not pass muster.
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

never mind the areas that only have one clerk

should we do this in other areas too?
doctors? waitress/waiters? schools? employments?

no thanks ill just stick with equal rights and everybody playing by the same rules instead of trying to invent special rules and rights for some.

a LEGAL marriage has nothing to do with my Christianity

and I know this doesnt apply to you but its just a question to expose thier dishonest hate and bigotry

where was all this crying for interracial couples or couples getting a nonreligious wedding or a wedding under a different religion . . .

its all made up anyway and theres no religious basis for it let alone a legal one. Its very easy to see through thier bigotry and it has nothing to do with religion.
Obviously it wouldn't work in areas that have only one clerk. Would you have a problem with it if you did believe the religious objection were valid?
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

Which would be fine but now Bob can sue for religious discrimination because you replaced him. We live in a hyper-litigious society after all.

Bob can sue no matter what, but since when will government care about Bob's religion or take into account his religion when upholding what is now the law of the land? Bob as an individual is irrelevant.
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

Obviously it wouldn't work in areas that have only one clerk. Would you have a problem with it if you did believe the religious objection were valid?

yes it would still not be a legit reason to infringe on the rights of others, break the law and illegally discriminate . . feelings about validity don't matter

my rights and freedoms as a christian are 100% intact . . . nothing about equal rights for gays or anti-discrimination laws impacts them in anyway . . .I have the same rights as everybody else and gotta play by the same rules i dont get special treatment because of my faith
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

yes it would still not be a legit reason to infringe on the rights of others, break the law and illegally discriminate . . feelings about validity don't matter

my rights and freedoms as a christian are 100% intact . . . nothing about equal rights for gays or anti-discrimination laws impacts them in anyway . . .I have the same rights as everybody else and gotta play by the same rules i dont get special treatment because of my faith
It's not special treatment, we all have the same right.
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

It's not special treatment, we all have the same right.

correct, the way it is right now, we all have the same right.
Some people want special treatment and they want it based on a false narrative of religion.
If religion could be used to break the law and violate rights and illegally discriminate then anybody could use it when ever they wanted. RIghts end where others begin and thats a good system. Theres no justification infringe on the rights of others for ones beliefs. Its a lie and nobody has been able to support it ever. again not saying YOU just talking in general.
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

my rights and freedoms as a christian are 100% intact . . . nothing about equal rights for gays or anti-discrimination laws impacts them in anyway

here's the problem. when it becomes clear that they WILL negatively impact your religious rights I'm sure your opinion will stay exactly the same as it is. When all the private schools are forced to shut down because they lose tax exemption for not embracing gay marriage, then we'll see what BS you come up with to rationalize it and say it had NOTHING to do with this supreme court ruling. Or when christian churches get sued out of existence for not performing gay marriage.

Oh I'll bet you will be on FIRE then, huh? admit you were totally wrong, right?......................yeah, I seriously doubt it.
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

So, what happens when a Texas clerk has no problem issuing these licenses or has any religious conviction about it??

Will they be persecuted? Transferred? Terminated?

You know, not ALL Texan's are Yuk-Yuk redneck hicks. Some of the coolest and most progressive people I know live in Texas. They just keep their head down and hold their politics close to the vest. The peer-pressure in Texas to be "red," is enormous. Yet, some still have the courage to stand on their own convictions. Texas gets a bad rap sometimes just because of politics. And, perhaps, rightfully so. But, beyond politics, you won't find better people anywhere.
 
My thought is that your comments suggest is is you who is expressing a hateful and judgmental view. Disrespect by any American for the right to free exercise of religion is just as regrettable as disrespect for other fundamental First Amendment rights like the freedom of speech.
I respect the right of people to follow their religion. I also expect people who work for the government which has nothing to do with faith or religion and is against discrimination and follows the laws to preform their jobs. Their faith has nothing to do with the job. If they can not do their job because of their faith they need to find another job. People has already quit their clerk jobs because of this. This is the option. You have the right to your faith freedom freedom freedom but belief does not give you the right to do your government job.
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

Bob can sue no matter what, but since when will government care about Bob's religion or take into account his religion when upholding what is now the law of the land? Bob as an individual is irrelevant.

But there are plenty of places which don't want to get sued and therefore, might not terminate Bob even though he deserves it because fighting a lawsuit and potentially losing a lawsuit is time consuming and expensive. Bob has that potential threat that he can hold over the head of his employers that they'd better be nice to him or he might sue them for discrimination.
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

No, it's not at all difficult. Have everyone sign in upon entering. Assign people to a particular window, or give them a number for the clerk to call. Clerks issue licenses to whoever comes to their window, or to all numbers to which they've been assigned. Done.
This is the way it is now. People come in and go to the next open window. This is as it should be. But you are forgetting that some people may not want to serve the people in front of them. If they don't they should be replaced by people who will serve everyone.
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

1.)here's the problem. when it becomes clear that they WILL negatively impact your religious rights I'm sure your opinion will stay exactly the same as it is.
2.) When all the private schools are forced to shut down because they lose tax exemption for not embracing gay marriage, then we'll see what BS you come up with to rationalize it and say it had NOTHING to do with this supreme court ruling.
3.) Or when christian churches get sued out of existence for not performing gay marriage.
4.)Oh I'll bet you will be on FIRE then, huh? admit you were totally wrong, right?......................yeah, I seriously doubt it.

1.) by design it cant so im not worried. I have nor right or freedoms based on religion to infring on the rights of other, i NEVER have so my rights are safe
2.) LMAO please keep the conspiracy theories to a minimum please. Dishonest wordings and fantasies dont work.
3.) another irrational fear tactic that nobody honest takes seriously, the churches are protected and discriminate EVERYDAY already and have been and will continue to do so. People have already tried to sue them and lost since the constitutions exists. "Churches" do not have to preform legal marriages.

did you have this fear before gays got equal rights? if not why since they have been sending couples packing for centuries . . just last year a story made the news casue it was unique where a black couple was denied marriage by the church they attend because it was mainly white. even though it was thier church the church wouldnt do it . . what happened? nothing because churches can do that and have that right LMAO sorry illogical conspiracy theories dont worry me My ACTUAL rights are completely safe and fully in tact.
4.) keep beating that drum of dishonesty because its only going to get mocked. . . if any REAL rights were infringed on I would be the first in line to stand and fight but since that hasnt happened im right here happy for my fellow americans who never have equal rights like we all should. :D


your problem is made up so no worries

again the FACT is my rights and freedoms as a christian are 100% intact . . . nothing about equal rights for gays or anti-discrimination laws impacts them in anyway, disagree factually prove other wise
facts win again
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

1.) by design it cant so im not worried. I have nor right or freedoms based on religion to infring on the rights of other, i NEVER have so my rights are safe
2.) LMAO please keep the conspiracy theories to a minimum please. Dishonest wordings and fantasies dont work.
3.) another irrational fear tactic that nobody honest takes seriously, the churches are protected and discriminate EVERYDAY already and have been and will continue to do so. People have already tried to sue them and lost since the constitutions exists. "Churches" do not have to preform legal marriages.

did you have this fear before gays got equal rights? if not why since they have been sending couples packing for centuries . . just last year a story made the news casue it was unique where a black couple was denied marriage by the church they attend because it was mainly white. even though it was thier church the church wouldnt do it . . what happened? nothing because churches can do that and have that right LMAO sorry illogical conspiracy theories dont worry me My ACTUAL rights are completely safe and fully in tact.
4.) keep beating that drum of dishonesty because its only going to get mocked. . . if any REAL rights were infringed on I would be the first in line to stand and fight but since that hasnt happened im right here happy for my fellow americans who never have equal rights like we all should. :D


your problem is made up so no worries

again the FACT is my rights and freedoms as a christian are 100% intact . . . nothing about equal rights for gays or anti-discrimination laws impacts them in anyway, disagree factually prove other wise
facts win again

TIME Magazine two days ago:
Gay Marriage Decision Is Right Time to End Religious Tax Exemptions

Or maybe this is just a fantasy I made up in my head, huh?

They are going after religion and it's institutions and aren't even hiding it. Now I don't care if that makes you happy or sad, but you are denying that it exists, which makes no sense. You will have to put your head deeper into the ground every day to keep saying it isn't happening and will not continue to happen. sheesh
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

TIME Magazine two days ago:
Gay Marriage Decision Is Right Time to End Religious Tax Exemptions

Or maybe this is just a fantasy I made up in my head, huh?

They are going after religion and it's institutions and aren't even hiding it. Now I don't care if that makes you happy or sad, but you are denying that it exists, which makes no sense. You will have to put your head deeper into the ground every day to keep saying it isn't happening and will not continue to happen. sheesh

Maybe we're just realizing that religion has had far too much power and privilege and it's time to change that across the board?
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

TIME Magazine two days ago:
Gay Marriage Decision Is Right Time to End Religious Tax Exemptions

Or maybe this is just a fantasy I made up in my head, huh?

They are going after religion and it's institutions and aren't even hiding it. Now I don't care if that makes you happy or sad, but you are denying that it exists, which makes no sense. You will have to put your head deeper into the ground every day to keep saying it isn't happening and will not continue to happen. sheesh

Why should religious schools even get tax exemptions?
 
My thought is that your comments suggest is is you who is expressing a hateful and judgmental view. Disrespect by any American for the right to free exercise of religion is just as regrettable as disrespect for other fundamental First Amendment rights like the freedom of speech.

But you're conflating a clerk performing an entirely ministerial task with the "free exercise of religion." It's a false premise from the start.

If we adopted your view of the world, then each of us is the law unto ourselves and can pick and choose our religious beliefs, and whenever we can reasonably claim that our individually held religious beliefs are on conflict with the law, simply ignore the law, with no consequences. You're a lawyer so you know this isn't true.

And what you're also glossing over is the fact that the 1st Amendment prohibits the government from imposing a religious test, and disadvantaging those who "fail" someone's arbitrary test.
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

TIME Magazine two days ago:
Gay Marriage Decision Is Right Time to End Religious Tax Exemptions

Or maybe this is just a fantasy I made up in my head, huh?

They are going after religion and it's institutions and aren't even hiding it. Now I don't care if that makes you happy or sad, but you are denying that it exists, which makes no sense. You will have to put your head deeper into the ground every day to keep saying it isn't happening and will not continue to happen. sheesh

"They" is one idiot writer looking for click bait.

And when you say "they" are going after religion and its institutions, "they" are doing no more or less than churches have done daily for centuries which is going after those who don't live according to the rules of that particular religion. It's probably a bit uncomfortable that the public no longer accepts without question that homosexuals, for example, are perverts and their consensual relationships should be criminalized, but the kind of dissent that you're characterizing "going after" religion is simply nothing new, the tables have just been turned a bit and the religious are being publicly challenged instead of having their views accepted without debate or dissent.

I don't see a problem with that, actually.
 
[h=1]Paxton: State workers can deny licenses to same-sex couples[/h]
Here we go the first actual decent from the Joy. I think this is doomed before it starts. There is no end to hate and judgement IMO. Thoughts.

I believe this is a temporary thing in that they will fold as soon as they are contested. Symbolic bullcrap about to get their parade rained on big time. Most likely trying to martyr themselves for a political future in their districts.
 
But you're conflating a clerk performing an entirely ministerial task with the "free exercise of religion." It's a false premise from the start.

If we adopted your view of the world, then each of us is the law unto ourselves and can pick and choose our religious beliefs, and whenever we can reasonably claim that our individually held religious beliefs are on conflict with the law, simply ignore the law, with no consequences. You're a lawyer so you know this isn't true.

And what you're also glossing over is the fact that the 1st Amendment prohibits the government from imposing a religious test, and disadvantaging those who "fail" someone's arbitrary test.

My copy of the Constitution says nothing at all in the First Amendment about imposing a religious test.

The fact a duty is ministerial usually comes up in contexts like whether mandamus can be used to compel an action, or whether a government official had enough discretion to be personally liable for some injury.

I don't dismiss your argument out of hand. I've heard it before. As the Court said in Reynolds v. U.S., its first Free Exercise Clause decision in 1878,

"Can a man excuse his practices to the contrary because of his religious belief? To permit this would be to make the professed doctrines of religious belief superior to the law of the land, and in effect to permit every citizen to become a law unto himself. Government could exist only in name under such circumstances...."

Justice Scalia was obviously concerned about this same thing in the majority decision he authored in Employment Division v. Smith. But the RFRA, which Congress passed in reaction to Smith's drastic narrowing of the Free Exercise Clause, has served to expand it back to something like the width it had in Sherbert and Yoder. Anyone who doubts that should read the Hobby Lobby decision, which was based on the federal RFRA.

For all anyone knows, an argument like yours might win the day in Texas. But Texas has its own RFRA, and from what that state's AG has said, I think that's far from clear.
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

1.)TIME Magazine two days ago:
Gay Marriage Decision Is Right Time to End Religious Tax Exemptions
2.)Or maybe this is just a fantasy I made up in my head, huh?
3.) They are going after religion and it's institutions and aren't even hiding it. Now I don't care if that makes you happy or sad, but you are denying that it exists, which makes no sense.
4.) You will have to put your head deeper into the ground every day to keep saying it isn't happening and will not continue to happen. sheesh

1.)hey thanks for that opinion piece that really sold me LMAO
2.) yes it is as far as rights infringements are concerned , should i find articles about how bush did 9-11 too?
3.) this is because i live in reality and theres no facts that support me losing any religions rights or freedoms over equal rights for gays . . . none . . . zero . . .
4.) nope, you will have to produce ONE fact to even make it logical, until you can you got NOTHING. Good luck with your conspiracy theories.

again the FACT is my rights and freedoms as a christian are 100% intact . . . nothing about equal rights for gays or anti-discrimination laws impacts them in anyway, disagree factually prove otherwise
facts win again
 
Re: Texas AG Says Workers Can Refuse Marriage Licenses to Gays

yes it would still not be a legit reason to infringe on the rights of others, break the law and illegally discriminate . . feelings about validity don't matter

my rights and freedoms as a christian are 100% intact . . . nothing about equal rights for gays or anti-discrimination laws impacts them in anyway . . .I have the same rights as everybody else and gotta play by the same rules i dont get special treatment because of my faith

I was a machinist. I should have questioned my boss as to where each part I machined was destined to be used. I spent six or so years machining parts for blowout preventers used in deep water. I wonder how long I would have kept my job if I had told my company that because of my deeply held religious environmental beliefs, I would not be able to help produce these parts so he would have to find something else for me to machine. :lamo
 
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