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Greece's Tsipras calls referendum to break bailout deadlock

I predict a "yes" vote. I believe the government will go through the motions of calling for a "no" vote, hoping the referendum will pass. That way, they can maintain support from opponents of austerity while at the same time the door would remain open to a compromise that would avoid a Grexit. I see this as a very risky strategy, but I don't see an alternative.

We shall see.
 
We shall see.

And I will hope and pray.

Bank holiday Monday; may be closed all week. Overseas transfers limited. Athens stock exchange to remain closed. Tsipras to address the nation.
 
And I will hope and pray.

Bank holiday Monday; may be closed all week. Overseas transfers limited. Athens stock exchange to remain closed. Tsipras to address the nation.

I have many friends there.
 
I have many friends there.

Greece is a beautiful country. One of my best friends has been living there with her crazy but brilliant lawyer husband for about twenty years after she spent her youth travelling all over Europe as a translator. Wonderful culture and history. The Greeks don't deserve to be left to suffer.
 
Greece is a beautiful country. One of my best friends has been living there with her crazy but brilliant lawyer husband for about twenty years after she spent her youth travelling all over Europe as a translator. Wonderful culture and history. The Greeks don't deserve to be left to suffer.

The problem has always been that no one pays their taxes.
 
I have many friends there.

Is Greece even minimally able to go back to using the drachma and exist on its exports for awhile, if it comes to that? I feel so sorry for the Greek people who have had to live under the austere conditions that have been forced upon them for years, and to think it might become even worse for them is sad. I will look at how our stock market reacts tomorrow - it's been a roller coaster ride the past several weeks, depending upon perception on how the daily talks have been going. :shock: The referendum is a "day late and a dollar short," IMO, since the loan payment is due in a few days!
 
Is Greece even minimally able to go back to using the drachma and exist on its exports for awhile, if it comes to that? I feel so sorry for the Greek people who have had to live under the austere conditions that have been forced upon them for years, and to think it might become even worse for them is sad. I will look at how our stock market reacts tomorrow - it's been a roller coaster ride the past several weeks, depending upon perception on how the daily talks have been going. :shock: The referendum is a "day late and a dollar short," IMO, since the loan payment is due in a few days!

I've heard Greeks talk about going back to the drachma but I have no idea how that would work.
 
I've heard Greeks talk about going back to the drachma but I have no idea how that would work.

Whichever way it ends up, it looks like rough sledding ahead for the average citizen, and that's not right, IMO! :2mad:
 
Is Greece even minimally able to go back to using the drachma and exist on its exports for awhile, if it comes to that?

I'd say not under present conditions.

Greece exports 1/3 less than what regular international trade patterns would predict on basis of Greek GDP, the size of its trading partners and geographical distance. This ranks Greece at the 31st position out of 39 export countries in the competitiveness ranking we construct based on our regressions. The most affected sectors include electrical equipment and machinery. [W]eak institutional quality accounts for a large part of this shortfall.

We estimate that structural reforms improving the Greek institutional framework to the EU/OECD average level would close between ½ and ¾ of the Greek export gap. These findings suggest that, while Greece has already achieved major improvements in cost competitiveness since the start of the Greek adjustment programme, structural reforms must also address non-cost competitiveness factors, such as the underlying institutional deficits, to unlock Greece's export growth potential. — "The Puzzle of the Missing Greek Exports" European Commission, Economic Papers 518, June 2014​

Greece had an average 22.3% exports to GDP ratio in 1995-2012 compared with Ireland at 90% and Bulgaria at 58% while Denmark, Sweden and Austria were at about 50%. — "Europe's Worst Exporter: Poor export performance of Greece," Finfacts, Jan 29, 2015​

They voted for Tsipras.

And may end up being glad they did.
 
It's you who doesn't know your history. Samaras was finance minister in the late 90s, before the launch of the Euro, in that period when they were fixing the stats, assisted by Goldman Sachs and with the connivance of the ECB, IMF and other EU countries.
 
Is Greece even minimally able to go back to using the drachma and exist on its exports for awhile, if it comes to that?

I suspect not. The new drachma would be worthless, and Greece would not be able to tap international credit markets. So how exactly would they pay for basic things like... fuel. Without fuel, the country cant run.. it is as simple as that. Add to that food and other things that the Greeks import. Car parts.. suddenly getting your car fixed goes up several hundred pro cent.. that is if you can afford buying gasoline of course.

Now the argument for the pro-Grexit people would be that, the Greek exports would become cheap.. yea that is true, but at the same time the imports would become extremely expensive. So only things produced in Greece would be affordable to locals, and this can cause problems in the short run. Also as someone above pointed out, Greece does not have a big export business. This can of course grow due its cheapness, but that takes time.. something that Greece does not have.

Another argument for the pro-Grexit people is that, yes but tourist would flock to Greece because it is so cheap. This is true, but would people really want to go to Greece, a country in social upheaval? Not to mention.. remember the first point.. fuel? How fun is it to be in a country where the power goes out? I mean there are cheap places to go in the Balkans, and yet you dont really see Romania and Bulgaria as hotspots for tourists do you? Now Greece has history and is historically a tourist hotspot, but we have seen how tourism has suffered in 2009-2012.. it has picked up some what, but no where near as it should have and suddenly because they have a new currency then it should explode? I dont think so.

But the fundamental problem for Greece is that just because they make a new currency, this does not mean that they dont still owe all that money away... they do. So you will see lawsuits in many countries going after Greek assets abroad.. we have seen that with Iran and Argentina. And then there is of course all the deposits in Greece.. they will be converted to the new currency, but chances are that the loans that locals have will still be in Euros... which causes even bigger problems. You have savings and income in New Drachma that is worthless, but you need to pay your mortgage in Euros. We saw what that did in Iceland.. 25% of the home owners over night went belly up.

So the argument for a New Drachma all boils down to one thing.. the ability to print money and pay locals in that money.. they cant buy anything with it, but at least they are getting paid right?
 
It's you who doesn't know your history. Samaras was finance minister in the late 90s, before the launch of the Euro, in that period when they were fixing the stats, assisted by Goldman Sachs and with the connivance of the ECB, IMF and other EU countries.

Shhh you are not allowed to point out such things for **** sake.. that is a big secret..... You have to promote that it was those damn socialists that were at fault and cooked the books, and not the real culprits!
 
It's you who doesn't know your history. Samaras was finance minister in the late 90s, before the launch of the Euro, in that period when they were fixing the stats, assisted by Goldman Sachs and with the connivance of the ECB, IMF and other EU countries.

No, he was not. You are completely wrong, and uninformed.
 
Shhh you are not allowed to point out such things for **** sake.. that is a big secret..... You have to promote that it was those damn socialists that were at fault and cooked the books, and not the real culprits!

You're just as ignorant as he was. Samaras was not a member of any government between 1992 and 2009.
 
It's you who doesn't know your history. Samaras was finance minister in the late 90s, before the launch of the Euro, in that period when they were fixing the stats, assisted by Goldman Sachs and with the connivance of the ECB, IMF and other EU countries.

Shhh you are not allowed to point out such things for **** sake.. that is a big secret..... You have to promote that it was those damn socialists that were at fault and cooked the books, and not the real culprits!

For you two history-challenged types:

[h=3]Antonis Samaras - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/h]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonis_Samaras


Wikipedia


Antonis Samaras (Greek: Αντώνης Σαμαράς, pronounced [anˈdonis samaˈras]; born 23 May 1951) is a Greek politician who served as Prime Minister of Greece ...‎Early life and education - ‎Early career - ‎New Democracy - ‎Prime Minister

Read and learn.
 
They voted for Tsipras.

Because he promised them that he would end the austere conditions they have been saddled with, and better days were ahead! It was a big gamble he took, which is probably why he is now calling for a referendum - which he should have done weeks ago to let the people decide their future, but better late than never, I guess. What difference will a referendum vote make either way, because even if they agree with the EU and ECB, which I think is unlikely since they blame them for the austerity they've lived under, it might be a week too late, but.....
 
Because he promised them that he would end the austere conditions they have been saddled with, and better days were ahead! It was a big gamble he took, which is probably why he is now calling for a referendum - which he should have done weeks ago to let the people decide their future, but better late than never, I guess. What difference will a referendum vote make either way, because even if they agree with the EU and ECB, which I think is unlikely since they blame them for the austerity they've lived under, it might be a week too late, but.....

What he promised was never possible, and led directly to the current crisis. This was foreseeable.
 
For you two history-challenged types:

[h=3]Antonis Samaras - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/h]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonis_Samaras


Wikipedia


Antonis Samaras (Greek: Αντώνης Σαμαράς, pronounced [anˈdonis samaˈras]; born 23 May 1951) is a Greek politician who served as Prime Minister of Greece ...‎Early life and education - ‎Early career - ‎New Democracy - ‎Prime Minister

Read and learn.

Yes learn to read is a good idea.. look on the right on what he has done in office.
 
It's you who doesn't know your history. Samaras was finance minister in the late 90s, before the launch of the Euro, in that period when they were fixing the stats, assisted by Goldman Sachs and with the connivance of the ECB, IMF and other EU countries.

They've been " fixing the Stats " ever since they entered the Union under false pretenses

After becoming a member they took advantage of their new Fiscal status as a Member Nation in good standing to borrow at much lower rates.

There were strict limitations on deficit spending written into the Treaty that Greece signed to get into the EU.

Those limits were ignored while a corrupt Greek Government financed entitlements , unsustainable public sector give aways and public sector pensions with other people's money

The worst thing they could have done was to elect a radical Che Guevara worshipping left wing activist instead of a leader.
 
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