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Breaking: US S.Ct. Rules Same Sex Marriage Constitutionally Protected[W:320]

No one was talking about the likelihood of gay marriage in the middle east. It's about how/who makes the decision to restrict or allow the behavior. Our system, it used to be the Constitution that was the ultimate authority. Now it's the will of the Ayatollahs.

You are the one calling for more restrictions on freedoms. That is much more in line with Middle Eastern Politics whether you accept it or not. The Constitution is and always will be the ultimate authority. It is intended to stand up to people such as yourself who would seek to restrict our freedoms (much like middle eastern countries). You are looking in a mirror and trying to deflect what is staring back.
 
Just out: U S S.Ct. rules that there is a constitutional right to same sex marriage, going further than just ruling that states have to recognize it, if performed in a state where it's legal.

This has an impact on the 14 states that have passed laws banning it.

NOTE: The ruling was NOT just that states have to recognize it. The ruling is that it is now LEGAL, being constitutionally protected. It COULD HAVE made the ruling more narrow, but it did not. It went all the way. The matter is now settled. Gay marriage is legal, like interracial marriage is.

NBC

I have to say that his ruling will not change one relationship in America. Marriage isn't about government permission, it's about who you love and want to spend a life with. The government telling you it's ok is just a side show. Now gays get to have government sanctions when they get divorced just like everyone else in the country. Good luck with that. I think it's a states rights issue but our values are so corrupt it was just a matter of time anyway even on the state level.
 
Your sour grapes are no more founded in logic than the dissenting opinions.

I give that peevish bleat all the weight it deserves. As usual, all you have to offer is uninformed prattle. You don't know the first thing about the legal reasoning of the dissenting opinions. I doubt you understand the substantive due process theory this result-driven decision was based on about any better than you understand the theory of relativity. You have no idea why substantive due process has been so harshly criticized--and with good reason--for so many decades, and apparently you don't care.

Nor do you care, evidently, that Obergefell subverts democracy, threatens religious freedom, and makes a mockery of the rule of law. This was nothing but judicial fiat, and as an unconstitutional dictate it deserves no one's respect. Even a homosexual with a modicum of respect for the Constitution and for democracy would condemn this sorry excuse for a decision as arbitrary and undemocratic. The states should remember that there would not even be a Supreme Court, if they had not agreed to create it in the Constitution, and that the Court has no way to enforce any of its decisions. It is THE STATES AND THEIR PEOPLE--and NOT the Supreme Court--who have the final say about what the Constitution means.
 
In case you misread or misunderstood what I wrote I will say it again for you: I don't accept the slippery slope arguments which are very common in SCOTUS dissents. They rarely ever turn out to be the case. Most often they are just vitriolic rants from the losing side. The most recent tantrums and illogical arguments from this week are a perfect example.

I don't want to shock you but you're quite easy to understand. Not at all complex. Evasive, but not complex.
 
I give that peevish bleat all the weight it deserves. As usual, all you have to offer is uninformed prattle. You don't know the first thing about the legal reasoning of the dissenting opinions. I doubt you understand the substantive due process theory this result-driven decision was based on about any better than you understand the theory of relativity. You have no idea why substantive due process has been so harshly criticized--and with good reason--for so many decades, and apparently you don't care.

Nor do you care, evidently, that Obergefell subverts democracy, threatens religious freedom, and makes a mockery of the rule of law. This was nothing but judicial fiat, and as an unconstitutional dictate it deserves no one's respect. Even a homosexual with a modicum of respect for the Constitution and for democracy would condemn this sorry excuse for a decision as arbitrary and undemocratic. The states should remember that there would not even be a Supreme Court, if they had not agreed to create it in the Constitution, and that the Court has no way to enforce any of its decisions. It is THE STATES AND THEIR PEOPLE--and NOT the Supreme Court--who have the final say about what the Constitution means.

Wrong. Simply Wrong. I understand perfectly the Obergefell opinion and the dissent. I spent three years in Law School and have been a practicing attorney for over 25 years...so I think I know how to read an opinion.

Where your entire premise is flawed is in the very basic understanding of the Constitution. The Constitution was created will the principle idea that there are certain fundamental/inalienable rights that are not to be subject to the whim of the majority, i.e., a popular vote. So the Obergefell decision is completely in line with the Constitution (you would know that if you understood how the Constitution works).

And your conclusion is completely wrong again. It is not the "STATES AND THEIR PEOPLE" that have the final say about what the Constitution means.....it actually IS the Supreme Court. The state/people remedy if they disagree with the Supreme Court is to pass a Constitutional Amendment. That is how our system is set up (you might understand that if you understood how the Constitution works).
 
I don't want to shock you but you're quite easy to understand. Not at all complex. Evasive, but not complex.

Then I don't know how you misunderstood. Do you care to offer an opinion as to what slippery slope we are headed down?
 
LOL

So all these societal changes aren't changes? Man, denial is alive and well in the liberal/progressive world. Explains much.
I mean, really, what has changed? You can't say gay marriage doesn't affect anyone other than the couple AND sociaty as a hole has changed. Gay marriage has to affect other people in order for sociatyou to be changed by it.

Anyway the Supreme Court forcing a change in law doesn't mean sociaty has move one ounce on the issue.
 
I just found out that a friend of mine who is transgender and a lesbian just got engaged. Thanks to this ruling. WOOT!

:applaud :2dancing: :ind: :bravo: :2party:
 
I have to say that his ruling will not change one relationship in America. Marriage isn't about government permission, it's about who you love and want to spend a life with. The government telling you it's ok is just a side show. Now gays get to have government sanctions when they get divorced just like everyone else in the country. Good luck with that. I think it's a states rights issue but our values are so corrupt it was just a matter of time anyway even on the state level.

Well, there IS a difference between living with someone and being married under the law. Ask any 25 year old guy, many of whom aren't ready to commit. Under the law, married people become one, in a way. Together they pay a lower income tax rate than if they are single. One can represent the other when he becomes incapacitated. They can share insurance premiums. And so on.

In the words of the mother at the end of the movie "Blast From the Past": "No, Calvin. It's NOT the same!"
 
No one was talking about the likelihood of gay marriage in the middle east. It's about how/who makes the decision to restrict or allow the behavior. Our system, it used to be the Constitution that was the ultimate authority. Now it's the will of the Ayatollahs.

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

Sounds like this ruling does just those things that I bolded. Note how an opposite ruling would not have done anything for this very first line of the Constitution. Opening up marriage to any combination of sexes secures more liberty for everyone and helps bring justice for those people. Continuing to restrict marriage based on sex does not do anything for justice, domestic tranquillity, common defence, the general welfare, or securing liberty for ourselves or our future children and while some may say that it could make a "more perfect union", this is not only subjective but also unlikely considering same sex marriage has been legal in many of the states for a while now, meaning that not having it legal in every state causes much more problems between those states and the citizens of those states.
 
I just found out that a friend of mine who is transgender and a lesbian just got engaged. Thanks to this ruling. WOOT!

:applaud :2dancing: :ind: :bravo: :2party:
Have they been living together?
 
Wrong. Simply Wrong. I understand perfectly the Obergefell opinion and the dissent. I spent three years in Law School and have been a practicing attorney for over 25 years...so I think I know how to read an opinion.

Where your entire premise is flawed is in the very basic understanding of the Constitution. The Constitution was created will the principle idea that there are certain fundamental/inalienable rights that are not to be subject to the whim of the majority, i.e., a popular vote. So the Obergefell decision is completely in line with the Constitution (you would know that if you understood how the Constitution works).

And your conclusion is completely wrong again. It is not the "STATES AND THEIR PEOPLE" that have the final say about what the Constitution means.....it actually IS the Supreme Court. The state/people remedy if they disagree with the Supreme Court is to pass a Constitutional Amendment. That is how our system is set up (you might understand that if you understood how the Constitution works).

Yes, I'm a little confused by the several posts that claim that SCOTUS does not have the final say on interpreting the constitution, and the vague assertions that the SC doesn't have any way to enforce its rulings.

Is not the whole purpose of the Supreme Court to interpret the constitution, and have the final say in such matters?

Certainly there have been times when individual states have resisted court rulings. Most notably when Arkansas national guard attempted to prevent the implementation of desegregation in 1957. Eisenhower intervened, and with the help of the 101's airborne enforced the law.

Are posters suggesting this ruling will prompt another such action, or series of actions? Seems unlikely at best.

Desegregation was extremely unpopular among a certain group in society, and this same posturing was attempted then. But eventually, the ruling was enforced. In today's society, it seems an extreme stretch to think that history might repeat itself over this ruling, much less be taken any further. I suppose anything's possible, just seems highly unlikely.

More likely that there will be some political posturing, and some ineffectual (presumably) attempts to amend the constitution. Then the whole thing will blow over when sexual orientation is finally recognized as a civil right.

I could be wrong of course, it just seems that is the course we're on.
 
Considering the lawless disregard of the Constitution the majority's exercise of judicial fiat involved, I think Justice Scalia's comments were, if anything, too moderate. He would have been nothing but truthful if he had called Kennedy an unprincipled liar and a disgrace to the Court. And Scalia's arguments were very solidly founded in logic, as were Justice Thomas's. I doubt you've read Obergefell, and I am sure you would not understand the legal issues raised in the dissenting opinions if you had. Having read your posts, I'm not the least surprised that you would accept Kennedy's high-sounding, incoherent gibberish as legal reasoning.

Obergefell is a direct attack on both democracy and the freedom of religion. Its sloppy, emotion-driven gobbbledygook has a special appeal for the witless. That includes most of the millions of pseudo-liberal lumps in the lumpenproletariat who are now taking up space in this once-great nation. Like their president, they care only about getting theirs, and they do not give a tinker's damn about this country, its Constitution, or the rule of law. The thought that a million American men have died to defend the rights of a such a bunch of simpering pajama boys is disgusting.

Equal protection under the law isn't "judicial fiat," it's a constitutional right.
 
Yes, I'm a little confused by the several posts that claim that SCOTUS does not have the final say on interpreting the constitution, and the vague assertions that the SC doesn't have any way to enforce its rulings.

Is not the whole purpose of the Supreme Court to interpret the constitution, and have the final say in such matters?

Certainly there have been times when individual states have resisted court rulings. Most notably when Arkansas national guard attempted to prevent the implementation of desegregation in 1957. Eisenhower intervened, and with the help of the 101's airborne enforced the law.

Are posters suggesting this ruling will prompt another such action, or series of actions? Seems unlikely at best.

Desegregation was extremely unpopular among a certain group in society, and this same posturing was attempted then. But eventually, the ruling was enforced. In today's society, it seems an extreme stretch to think that history might repeat itself over this ruling, much less be taken any further. I suppose anything's possible, just seems highly unlikely.

More likely that there will be some political posturing, and some ineffectual (presumably) attempts to amend the constitution. Then the whole thing will blow over when sexual orientation is finally recognized as a civil right.

I could be wrong of course, it just seems that is the course we're on.


You are absolutely correct. The whole slippery slope argument is nothing more than sour grapes and paranoia.
 
i'd like to point out that this ruling is also huge even for gay couples in states that *already* allowed SSM. My gay uncle in california suddenly becomes unmarried every time he visits michigan. If one of them had an emergency during the trip, no hospital visitation, too bad! If they drove, they'd be unmarried in idaho, married again in utah, unmarried again in oklahoma, married in indiana...you get the point, it was stupid as hell

This aspect of the ruling isn't getting as much attention, but it goes deeper into illustrating the absurdity of "states' rights" in an age of traveling across the entire country in a matter of hours. Every other country except mexico legalized SSM for the whole country simultaneously.
 
If you think that Scalia's vitriolic dissent was becoming of Supreme Court Justice and was founded in logic....then I think it speaks clearly as to what constitutes a "dim bulb".

yeah at one point he even blamed the "hippies" and used a phrase no less childish than 'doody head'. If this man is one of our top legal minds, we may as well have P Diddy as chief justice

he truly comes across as a typical dullard redneck
 
You know I think highly of you, and I understand the desire to kinda rub it in, but really, things like this are really unhelpful. Raising emotional ire is exactly the last thing that gay people and those who want to get SSM and live a happy life need. It just makes people mad, and they will then take it out on the most obvious targets. It is time to celebrate(and I am incredibly happy right now), but it is also time to start working on mending fences and getting past the ire. And I think it is those of us who have pushed for this to happen who should start doing the mending.

At the time of your post, the decision was about three hours old. I think it was way too early to expect the celebrants to pipe down. And I have no idea why you think activists should be apologizing for finally attaining marriage equality.
 
And who says multiple marriages cannot be inter-species - or even with inanimate objects? Yes this does open up a whole pandora's box of paths for the future.

Yeah, DO let me know when inanimate objects can enter into a contract.
 
You are absolutely correct. The whole slippery slope argument is nothing more than sour grapes and paranoia.

That's exactly what a lot of people said after the Hobby Lobby decision, including me. And we were right. There also is no slippery slope in this ruling.
 
I've already provided the data. The information shows that marriage slowly increased from 1920 into the 50s, 60s to the high point you are talking about. That was a high point for marriage, within a single decade, coming from a point of low marriage rates before that. It is possible that it will continue to decline, but unlikely that it won't reach a low point, then head back up or even out to a steady rate.

Well, thanks for clearing that up. :roll:
 
I do not think there will be a push back. Many issues are more important than same sex marriage and abortion and so on. These issues are important and I do not deflate them but at the moment economy, immigration and others are more important to the masses.

Well let's see.

One example: The liberal/progressive forces are attempting to reward illegal aliens, and in fact are promoting more to come here. This agenda is being pushed at the extreme peril of the Black Communities, who apparently aren't viewed as important, other than to gin up occasional emotional responses that will be met with nothing but platitudes from the left.

In light of everything else, how long do you think voters are going to tolerate the heavy handed actions that are being force fed to them?
 
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