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Supreme Court Upholds Obama Health Care Subsidies[W:700]

ObamacareFail said:
The young and healthy have been getting sticker shock since obamacare passed. They had never expected insurance premiums to cost more then monthy car payments and mortgage payments. Yes I know about risk pools, however prior to obamacare, the risk was spread based on common sense. If you had bad habits such as smoking or heavy drinking, obesity, etc, you and others in your category shared the brunt of the risk. That's why health insurance companies offered lower rates for those with less bad habits.
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Smokers still pay more under the ACA, as much as 50% more than non-smokers. It is apparent that you have no interest in learning about the ACA and why it is such a large bill. I believe you will be rethinking this behavior as you finally come to the realization that it is here to stay. It takes longer for some I know. There was alot of thinking that went in to it and it will take more thinking to improve it where necessary.

Although insurers can’t charge more for health status, they can charge up to 50% more for smoking status. On the flip side of this ObamaCare includes smoking cessation therapy (including medication) as a free preventive service on all non-grandfathered plans sold since September 23, 2010.

Those of us looking to save money on our health insurance premiums will want to reexamine the true cost of being a smoker. Below we take a look at some facts and an example of how the Affordable Care Act affects smokers.
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http://obamacarefacts.com/obamacare-smokers/
 
ObamacareFail said:
The US Supreme Court Rulings have not set obamacare in stone. They merely prevented it's death by lawsuits. If the republicans maintain control of congress and elect a republican president, they can repeal obamacare. The court's decision does not prevent that. And the vast majority of Americans do not want a single payer system.
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Actually, polls in America show that about the same percentages who favour/oppose the ACA favour/oppose a single payer system. It's not a big stretch to expect that when the ACA crumbles under it's own messy weight that single payer will pick up the pieces.
 
tuhaybey said:
I mean, I am aware that Fox did a few segments where they interviewed people with horror stories about the ACA, but did you not hear that those turned out to be fake? Look at the statistics, don't just go off things you hear on Fox. Fox is just pretend.
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Check the 2010 and 2014 midterm election statatics, sport. Obamnacare is a 1200 lb gorilla on your party's back and you are celebrating that a US Supreme Court ruling is extending that misery for you.
 
ObamacareFail said:
Check the 2010 and 2014 midterm election statatics, sport. Obamnacare is a 1200 lb gorilla on your party's back and you are celebrating that a US Supreme Court ruling is extending that misery for you.
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Check the 2012 election.
President Obama was re-elected.
 
tuhaybey said:
Not to be overly blunt, but the problem is conservatives just don't think hard enough. You settle for the easy, catchy-sounding answer without really looking into things. That's why you guys always get everything wrong.

In fact, more people having access to healthcare does cost less. That happens because it is far, far, far cheaper to treat things up front before they become catastrophic. We were not just letting those people with health problems die before. What we were doing is denying them care until they were on death's door, then dumping insane amounts of money trying to fix problems, many of which could have been fixed for 1% of less of the cost if they'd been to a doctor 2 years earlier.
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Denial of care prior to obamacare is an outright bald faced lie. It just did not happen. Everyone who entered the Emergency room was treated regardless of insurance or ability to pay. It was and is the law. The only people who did not see a doctor for two years were people too stupid to go to the ER or a clinic.
 
tuhaybey said:
Would it be easier if the GDP was $40t instead of $17.5t? Would it be harder if the GDP was $5t? Are you seriously taking the position that it would not?



I don't get why you keep repeating "in a private sector economy." Why do you think that detail is relevant? The GDP determines how big of a deal debt is in every kind of economy...
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You must think the money all tax money grows on a special tree on the white house lawn.
 
iguanaman said:
Smokers still pay more under the ACA, as much as 50% more than non-smokers. It is apparent that you have no interest in learning about the ACA and why it is such a large bill. I believe you will be rethinking this behavior as you finally come to the realization that it is here to stay. It takes longer for some I know. There was alot of thinking that went in to it and it will take more thinking to improve it where necessary.



ObamaCare and Smokers
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Perhaps when your party no longer has any power in Washington at all, you will learn how massively unpopular obamacare is. And it is not here to stay. Even if not repealed by a republican president and congress, it will eventually collapse under it's own weight. It's days are numbered.
 
CanadaJohn said:
Actually, polls in America show that about the same percentages who favour/oppose the ACA favour/oppose a single payer system. It's not a big stretch to expect that when the ACA crumbles under it's own messy weight that single payer will pick up the pieces.
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It's only about the same to those Americans silly enough to take a CNN opinion poll seriously. And Americans want single payer even less then they want Obamacare. The democrats barely passed obamacare...had to go the reconciliation method to get it done....and it has killed them politically in congress since. Getting single payer passed will be virtually impossible in todays political climate. And there was a single payer clause in the original version of the ACA. It was defeated. When the ACA falls or is repealed. .....a common sense reform plan based on market forces and competition will pick up the pieces...not single payer.
 
minnie616 said:
Check the 2012 election.
President Obama was re-elected.
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Yes......African Americans again came out enmasse to vote for Obama. I get it. However the democrats did not regain the house of reps and lost seats in the Senate. It would have been worse, howerver none of the real harmful mandates had yet hit. Obama had delayed them until after the election.
 
ObamacareFail said:
It's only about the same to those Americans silly enough to take a CNN opinion poll seriously. And Americans want single payer even less then they want Obamacare. The democrats barely passed obamacare...had to go the reconciliation method to get it done....and it has killed them politically in congress since. Getting single payer passed will be virtually impossible in todays political climate. And there was a single payer clause in the original version of the ACA. It was defeated. When the ACA falls or is repealed. .....a common sense reform plan based on market forces and competition will pick up the pieces...not single payer.
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We shall see, although the speed at which Washington moves, I may not be around to say I told you so.
 
ObamacareFail said:
Everyone who entered the Emergency room was treated regardless of insurance or ability to pay. It was and is the law.
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The law requires ERs to stabilize you if you have an emergency medical condition. That's far from the entirety of health needs that can be serviced by the health system.

ObamacareFail said:
However the democrats did not regain the house of reps and lost seats in the Senate.
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The Democrats gained 2 Senate seats in 2012.
 
Greenbeard said:
The law requires ERs to stabilize you if you have an emergency medical condition. That's far from the entirety of health needs that can be serviced by the health system.



The Democrats gained 2 Senate seats in 2012.
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Did the Democrats lose control of the entire Congress in 2014? You can always put lipstick on a pig but that doesn't change reality.

What I find interesting is how you and others judge everyone else by your own biases and standards. Healthcare costs for the uninsured are paid for by the hospitals and the people of the state making it a state program not a federal one no matter how many times you say it. You have been indoctrinated and have such passion for this issue meaning that liberal elite have duped you no matter how many times you deny it or run from it.
 
ObamacareFail said:
Denial of care prior to obamacare is an outright bald faced lie. It just did not happen. Everyone who entered the Emergency room was treated regardless of insurance or ability to pay. It was and is the law. The only people who did not see a doctor for two years were people too stupid to go to the ER or a clinic.
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How the hell, after years and years of endlessly debating this stuff, has the right's understanding of healthcare policy still not improved? It is just flat out ridiculous. The only explanation I can come up with is that you guys are intentionally blocking out whatever information you encounter about this stuff.
 
Conservative said:
Healthcare costs for the uninsured are paid for by the hospitals and the people of the state making it a state program not a federal one no matter how many times you say it. You have been indoctrinated and have such passion for this issue meaning that liberal elite have duped you no matter how many times you deny it or run from it.
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What is this a response to?
 
ObamacareFail said:
It's already too heavy.
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Apparently not according to the SCOTUS. Therefore when the weight crushes the taxpayers, the SCOTUS won't have anything to say about it since the politicians will be squeezed as will their political careers and cushy Washington jobs when their campaigns are at risk. The question is, will the left and right be able to agree to change it for their own self preservation or will they continue to be deadlocked and let it die. That's a long term view because there's no law like this that has a short life but a long and painful one.
 
CanadaJohn said:
We shall see, although the speed at which Washington moves, I may not be around to say I told you so.
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Well, I can guarantee you that it will not happen with republicans under control of either branch of congress or the white house. The democrats would have to have complete control again and would not likely risk giving it all up again in the next election or two. And if single payer were to pass, it would virtually wipe out the private sector healthcare system, which means congress would be forced to vote for something they would be subject to as well...unlike Obamacare. Congress strangely exempted themselves from Obamacare's mandates. No offense to Canada, however despite much of the left in the US claiming they want a single payer system, it is not politically viable in the US and will not likely be in your lifetime or mine. We would have to go full tilt socialist and that's not going to happen any time soon, if ever.
 
ObamacareFail said:
Congress strangely exempted themselves from Obamacare's mandates.
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Members of Congress were removed from the Federal Employee Health Benefits Program.

They now get their coverage through DC Health Link, the District's ACA exchange.
 
ObamacareFail said:
Denial of care prior to obamacare is an outright bald faced lie. It just did not happen. Everyone who entered the Emergency room was treated regardless of insurance or ability to pay. It was and is the law. The only people who did not see a doctor for two years were people too stupid to go to the ER or a clinic.
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LOL.

I'm still amazed that someone would have a screen name dedicated to a topic he knows so little about.

ED care is not medical treatment. It's stabilization. You can't get your cancer treated there, or a long term fix for diabetes, heart disease, arthritis, etc.

Denial of care was common pre-ACA, and still exists for the uninsured.
 
ObamacareFail said:
Perhaps when your party no longer has any power in Washington at all, you will learn how massively unpopular obamacare is. And it is not here to stay. Even if not repealed by a republican president and congress, it will eventually collapse under it's own weight. It's days are numbered.
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We've been hearing this since it passed.

It's only become better and stronger and more entrenched. In fact, the scope of reform is so difficult, it's probably here for the rest of our lifetimes- the GOP has repeatedly shown it has no real ideas to comprehensively change healthcare.

But you keep saying, every year, that NEXT year will be disaster. How repeatedly wrong do you have to be before you get a clue? Because it's approaching a decade now....
 
tuhaybey said:
How the hell, after years and years of endlessly debating this stuff, has the right's understanding of healthcare policy still not improved? It is just flat out ridiculous. The only explanation I can come up with is that you guys are intentionally blocking out whatever information you encounter about this stuff.
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Any way you try to spin it, denial of care prior to Obamacare is an outright bald faced lie by the left. Your ignorance of that suggests that it is you that does not understand healthcare policy. The only explanation I can come up with is diehard partisanship on your part and the part of so much of the left. A democrat congress and president gave us this mess known as Obamacare and you will defend it until the end up time just for that reason. If a republican president and congress had enacted it, you and the left would be screaming bloody murder. You would be ripping it to shreds...screaming about mandates and massive rate increases. One example of that is the Patriot Act getting passed during the Bush Administration. The left nearly had a stroke and complained non-stop about it until Bush was out of office. Then Obama comes along and not only keeps it going, he expands on it. The lefts reaction is as follows:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzN3yJXlWrg
 
Ockham said:
Apparently not according to the SCOTUS. Therefore when the weight crushes the taxpayers, the SCOTUS won't have anything to say about it since the politicians will be squeezed as will their political careers and cushy Washington jobs when their campaigns are at risk. The question is, will the left and right be able to agree to change it for their own self preservation or will they continue to be deadlocked and let it die. That's a long term view because there's no law like this that has a short life but a long and painful one.
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Unlike Medicare, I think Obamacare will wither and die on the vine in the short run. The health insurance rate increases and the yet to strike midsize employer mandates will make obamacare a serious liability sooner rather then later. It will just seem like it's forever.
 
ObamacareFail said:
Unlike Medicare, I think Obamacare will wither and die on the vine in the short run. The health insurance rate increases and the yet to strike midsize employer mandates will make obamacare a serious liability sooner rather then later. It will just seem like it's forever.
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Yeah. *NEXT* year!

LOL.
 
pbrauer said:
No, I not saying that at all. All rulings are not the same. Bringing down Obamacare would be especially messy as it would be the cause of many deaths of many people who depend upon Obamacare.
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that has been the argument against the Courts rolling back the unconstitutional expansion of the commerce clause from the FDR regime. Professor Steven Calabresi (NW Law school-a Scalia Disciple) noted at the University of Cincinnati Taft Lecture in the Fall of 2012 that Scalia and other "Faint hearted originalists" admit that most of the new deal was unconstitutional but also claim that ND jurisprudence has been around too long to overrule it. I am sure that a real conservative court may do the same thing with Obama care in say a decade.

one advantages the left has is that "conservative" justices tend to be loathe to overturn existing-even if clearly unconstitutional-precedent
 
ObamacareFail said:
Any way you try to spin it, denial of care prior to Obamacare is an outright bald faced lie by the left. Your ignorance of that suggests that it is you that does not understand healthcare policy. The only explanation I can come up with is diehard partisanship on your part and the part of so much of the left. A democrat congress and president gave us this mess known as Obamacare and you will defend it until the end up time just for that reason. If a republican president and congress had enacted it, you and the left would be screaming bloody murder. You would be ripping it to shreds...screaming about mandates and massive rate increases. One example of that is the Patriot Act getting passed during the Bush Administration. The left nearly had a stroke and complained non-stop about it until Bush was out of office. Then Obama comes along and not only keeps it going, he expands on it. The lefts reaction is as follows:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzN3yJXlWrg
Click to expand...

Just re-read my post and see if you can tell where you got mixed up:

In fact, more people having access to healthcare does cost less. That happens because it is far, far, far cheaper to treat things up front before they become catastrophic. We were not just letting those people with health problems die before. What we were doing is denying them care until they were on death's door, then dumping insane amounts of money trying to fix problems, many of which could have been fixed for 1% of less of the cost if they'd been to a doctor 2 years earlier.
 
ObamacareFail said:
While reform was needed, doing nothing at all would have been less damaging then obamacare. And single payer is just "stupid". When you take the profit incentive out of medical care, you end up with very limited medical care and waiting lists and rationing follows.
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Single payer doesn't take the "profit incentive" out of medical care. You're confusing single payer with socialized medicine. Most single payer systems rely on or are entirely served by private, for profit providers, same as exists in the U.S. and all the profit seeking providers who serve Medicare patients. Single payer just shifts who pays, and frankly I couldn't care less whether my insurers is BCBS or Medicare, and neither does my 85yo mother in law who's getting a total hip in a few weeks....

And we have tons of rationing now and we had more of it pre-ACA. We rationed by what kind of job you had, how much it paid, and whether your employer provided healthcare benefits. Medical care is limited, and VERY expensive, so the only question is HOW we are going to ration it and by how much.
 
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