• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Supreme Court Upholds Obama Health Care Subsidies[W:700]

I did not make the original comment bringing that up, read the history again or admit you should not have jumped in.



Minor, LOL. This is what happens when Congress passes such a huge law there ends up a problem it expects the Supreme Court to edit for them.



Again, not minor. A real change on what is a State and why it now means much more.



Yes it is, and for the reasons mentioned. Now the term "State" has an expanded definition. Interpret does not mean edit the meaning of words to make the government happy.

So when you guys say you don't like the "nanny State" you don't mean the Federal Govt.? Which State do you mean then? There are 50 of them.
 
And you give us yet another reason not to give a Bush a 4th term. Like we needed it.:lol:

There are millions on the exchanges now. By 2017, there will be millions more. The notion that any president, Democrat or Republican, will sign a repeal of the ACA and thus instantly take health coverage away from millions of people is absurd. Its not going to happen. If they had any sense they would focus on reform rather than repeal because that law is part of the country just like Medicare is.
 
So when you guys say you are against a "nanny State" you don't mean the Federal Govt.? Which State do you mean then? There are 50 of them.

Your question has zero relevance to the conversation you jumped into.
 
generally, people who stay poor do so largely because of decisions that they make, such as quitting school, having children out of wedlock, etc.

How is it you came by this knowledge? A careful and thorough sociological analysis? A little birdie told you?

There's no doubt that dropping out of school is a big problem getting ahead. But if you have a high school diploma and got married before you had kids, yer saying you have a better than even chance to move out of poverty? What are the other "decisions" you should get right?

And I don't see how getting married would make such a difference. Yer analysis doesn't strike me as having a lot of validity.
 
Compared to America you're second rate

Canada scores significantly higher than we do on the Economic Freedom Index, they have a lower rate of single-motherhood, their lower corporate tax rate raises more revenue than ours, and as a result their middle class is richer.

If the American people don't want Obamacare, and we don't, then it won't outlast Obama. Your defeatism might be true if we were talking about Canadians, but we're talking about Americans here. We're doers.

..... that's nice. I thought that once too. Then we had the 2012 election and I started paying more attention to who was driving American culture, the American future, etc.

Americans are whiny, litigious, narcissists still coasting off of the accomplishments of the WWII generation. We lack self-discipline and self-control.

Because we are whiny narcissists, we are attracted to whiny narcissists. We put one in the White House two elections running because he talked pretty to us, and the guy in second place in New Hampshire for the GOP right now is a reality TV star who's schtick is that he's good at being an idiot in public without experiencing the kind of personal shame that would constrain others. We've demanded that our politicians Tell Us About The Rabbits so much that we took the worlds' engine house and turned it into history's largest liability.

We haven't been able to "win" a war since the 1940's because we get bored and because it's hard, and we don't do "hard" anymore. What we "do" - what we "specialize" in "doing" - now as an industrial base is finding new ways to like each others' funny cat pictures on the internet. The Middle East, North Africa, Eastern Europe, and Central Asia are on fire and what America is spending her time on is whether or not people who fly flags are mean and dudes who want to touch each others' penises before cutting them off. Because all that other stuff is hard, and we don't do "hard" anymore. We prefer to sue people who expect us to do hard, or maybe demand a handout for failing to do hard.

We forgot how to America and in the next couple of decades reality is going to **** us hard. It's okay. I and my children will be part of the ruling class in the dilapidated, sad, failed little angry self-absorbed society who shares a name with America. And those who suffer? I'm going to laugh and laugh and laugh, because they will have gotten exactly what they voted for.
 
What he and other GOP posters aren't saying is how relieved they are as to what they would have done if the SCOTUS would have ruled against ACA .

And you give us yet another reason not to give a Bush a 4th term. Like we needed it.:lol:
 
Since it was voted into law the American people have been against the law. While I disagree with the SOCTUS ruling, I guess the upside is that Democrats can't run from this legislation anymore.
gonTrue. They own it. I do have to wonder if they are politically suicidal. Mostly due to obamacare, the democrats have lost control of both houses of congress. They have also lost control of state legislatures in the majority of states. My own state legislature since the passage of obamacare has gone from democrat to republican for the first time since Ulyssess S Grant was president.
 
Jiminy Cricket!!!

As Majority Leader of the House, Pelosi wasn't privy to the Senate bill until after it passed. Once the Senate passed their bill then it goes to the house so they can read and vote on it. That's just how congress works.



"...Her contention was that the Senate “didn’t have a bill.” And until the Senate produced an actual piece of legislation that could be matched up and debated against what was passed by the House, no one truly knew what would be voted on.

“It’s because we didn’t have a Senate bill,” Pelosi said forcefully before Eleanor Clift of Newsweek even finished asking her a question about the statement’s context. “We were urging the Senate to pass a bill.” ...."​

Pelosi defends her infamous health care remark - The Washington Post

They never read it even after it passed, They didn't have to.. they just invested their time defending it and they continued doing it today.
Get out of the basement and stop drinking the kool aid.
By the way.. the Senate and the House were both ruled by the left at that time.
Obama Care is owned by the Left since not a single republican in Wash. voted for it.
 
Another win for the leeches. No wonder this country is sucking more and more. Oh well, at least now there is zero incentive (political or otherwise) for the majority of states who have not set up their exchanges to do so now. Coupled with the failure to expand medicare in about half the states, at least leeches aren't routing.
 
People that are honest ?

People that are hard working ?

People that are intelligent ?

People that are self reliant ?

People that are proud of their State and Country ?

So you prefer people that are under the perpetual influence of IQ lowering psychoactive chemical compounds to real Texans ?

Being retired I actually prefer people who don't talk too much; Texans seldom qualify. Therefore when the time comes I will leave you Texans to your tall tales of freedom and adventure while I go off to the real world.
 
I have to wonder what the Obama Justice Dept has on Roberts.

What about Kennedy?
He voted no the first time.
Kennedy and Roberts are clearly showing they are indeed the "third" wing of the USSC.
As the sum of their rulings has pleased neither party .
 
Another win for the leeches. No wonder this country is sucking more and more. Oh well, at least now there is zero incentive (political or otherwise) for the majority of states who have not set up their exchanges to do so now. Coupled with the failure to expand medicare in about half the states, at least leeches aren't routing.

As you mention leeches;
there is now zero incentive for the GOP leeches in Congress to show their "REPLACE".
Roberts actually gave the GOP a gift by not forcing them to deal with all the people thrown off of ACA.
Especially the conundrum in Florida .
 
They never read it even after it passed,

Kind of like the trade pact the GOPs just voted for--think they read it?

By the way.. the Senate and the House were both ruled by the left at that time.
Obama Care is owned by the Left since not a single republican in Wash. voted for it.

Are there any GOP ideas in ACA?
And why hasn't the GOP "REPLACE" hit the House floor ?
 
I did not make the original comment bringing that up, read the history again or admit you should not have jumped in.

I don't need to read it again. The original comment was:

you are arguing that Congress intended a result, on one of the biggest provisions in the bill, that received no debate in Congress

You mistakenly (and quite foolishly, imo) decided that "biggest" referred to the number of pages. The reference is to importance.

>>Minor, LOL.

Minor enough for the laugh to be on you, I'd say. 6-3. Ya can't win 'em all.

>>This is what happens when Congress passes such a huge law there ends up a problem it expects the Supreme Court to edit for them.

These things happen. Even Senators and Reps aren't perfect.

>>Again, not minor. A real change on what is a State and why it now means much more.

Well, three justices agree with you. Six agree with me. C'est la guerre.

>>Now the term "State" has an expanded definition.

Where do you get that? From the majority opinion?
 
They never read it even after it passed, They didn't have to.. they just invested their time defending it and they continued doing it today.
Get out of the basement and stop drinking the kool aid.
By the way.. the Senate and the House were both ruled by the left at that time.
Obama Care is owned by the Left since not a single republican in Wash. voted for it.


The ACA would've been repealed at least 60x if the left didn't defend it. So I think they kinda know they "own" it.


But I adore how those silly republicans who try to take credit for the ACA in their own states and districts in order to get elected, don't you? .....



"....But in the same op-ed, [Scott] Walker did something odd: He bragged about how he used the Obamacare subsidies now on trial to offer more health coverage to low-income Wisconsin residents.

“Wisconsin is the only state that didn’t accept the Medicaid expansion funds and that has no gap in coverage, according to the Kaiser Family Foundation,” Walker wrote. ”For the first time in state history, everyone living in poverty has access to coverage.”

How did Walker achieve this expanded coverage where other governors who turned down the Medicaid expansion failed? Short answer: Obamacare. Slightly longer answer: Obamacare subsidies and Wisconsin’s unusually generous existing health law...."​

Scott Walker won't fix Obamacare, but he will take credit for it | MSNBC

Hey, that GOP Obamacare alternative sure looks a lot like Obamacare « Hot Air


The SCOTUS literally saved their asses because if they had ruled the other way, it would've been the demise of the Republican party.
 
Last edited:
Canada scores significantly higher than we do on the Economic Freedom Index, they have a lower rate of single-motherhood, their lower corporate tax rate raises more revenue than ours, and as a result their middle class is richer.



..... that's nice. I thought that once too. Then we had the 2012 election and I started paying more attention to who was driving American culture, the American future, etc.

Americans are whiny, litigious, narcissists still coasting off of the accomplishments of the WWII generation. We lack self-discipline and self-control.

Because we are whiny narcissists, we are attracted to whiny narcissists. We put one in the White House two elections running because he talked pretty to us, and the guy in second place in New Hampshire for the GOP right now is a reality TV star who's schtick is that he's good at being an idiot in public without experiencing the kind of personal shame that would constrain others. We've demanded that our politicians Tell Us About The Rabbits so much that we took the worlds' engine house and turned it into history's largest liability.

We haven't been able to "win" a war since the 1940's because we get bored and because it's hard, and we don't do "hard" anymore. What we "do" - what we "specialize" in "doing" - now as an industrial base is finding new ways to like each others' funny cat pictures on the internet. The Middle East, North Africa, Eastern Europe, and Central Asia are on fire and what America is spending her time on is whether or not people who fly flags are mean and dudes who want to touch each others' penises before cutting them off. Because all that other stuff is hard, and we don't do "hard" anymore. We prefer to sue people who expect us to do hard, or maybe demand a handout for failing to do hard.

We forgot how to America and in the next couple of decades reality is going to **** us hard. It's okay. I and my children will be part of the ruling class in the dilapidated, sad, failed little angry self-absorbed society who shares a name with America. And those who suffer? I'm going to laugh and laugh and laugh, because they will have gotten exactly what they voted for.


Quit your bellyaching, you sound old.

First of all, 18 more months and Marco Rubio will be president of the United States. And he'll be the greatest president since Ronald Reagan.

I believe that the hand of divine providence has always guided America. When we were a colony in the woods, we had perhaps the greatest group of political minds in the history of the world to that point and since.... all miraculously gathered up in one spot.... our founding fathers. Right when we needed them.

When we needed a Lincoln, we had a Lincoln.

When we needed an FDR to get us through World War 2, we had an FDR.

When we needed a Ronald Reagan to get us out of the doldrums of the 70's, we had a Ronald Reagan.

America will be fine. In fact, it's never been better. We smashed and owned the Soviets in the Cold War, leaving us the only superpower in the world. We dominate the world's high tech industry, the banking and finance industry, the media, etc. We are utterly and completely dominant on the world stage in a way that no nation has ever been in the history of the world. In fact, you're living in the golden age of the American Era. Pax Americana, I believe they call it.

The debt is high, so what? Name one country that doesn't have a high national debt. Look at what's going on in the EU right now with Greece. The whole thing looks ready to implode. China? Would you trade places with China? I sure as hell wouldn't. China has a whole host of problems we can't even begin to discuss or it would take up an entire page.

And in 18 months, the Obama experiment will end, and the country will vote in a CONSERVATIVE who will be our next Reagan.
 
How is it you came by this knowledge? A careful and thorough sociological analysis?

Actually yes. Well, a series of careful and thorough sociological analyses.

There's no doubt that dropping out of school is a big problem getting ahead. But if you have a high school diploma and got married before you had kids, yer saying you have a better than even chance to move out of poverty?

That is correct. A couple of quickly grabbed demonstrations:

1219.gif


1220.gif




What are the other "decisions" you should get right?

The biggest one is "Work 40 Hours (or more) a Week" and the second biggest one is "Don't Get Divorced".

And I don't see how getting married would make such a difference

That's interesting. You don't see how (for example) slashing housing costs in half can result in increased disposable income?

Married couples (and especially married men) demonstrate increased productivity, long term planning, and greater academic accomplishment than their single peers. In the United States, having parents who are married reduces a child's likelihood of poverty by 82%

Yer analysis doesn't strike me as having a lot of validity.

:shrug: Evidence from both the Left and the right back me up on this, particularly about marriage, but also more generally about the extent to which poverty is a result of behavior. Among those who finish high school, get married, have children only within a marriage and go to work, the odds of long-term poverty are virtually nil.
 
No, you say
And the interstate highway is paid for and owned by Uncle Sam.
An accurate and irrelevent statement. Congratulations.

$17,362.54
Send that to me in a check or Paypal would ya? It's more like, $0, but if you want to give me money I won't say no.


The Internet grew out of federal spending — "a prime example of the importance of government spending to scientific advances and innovation."
Don't care where it grew from. Irrelevant. We're talking about money, not history.

Auto bailout saved that industry. Federal money has done a lot for driving safety, fuel mileage, and lower levels of pollution.
It didn't help me, I don't work in the Auto Industry. So are you willing to pay my car payments? No I didn't think so.

But it wouldn't be operating without current revenues, some of which are federal.
It wouldn't be operating if it didn't mandate by LAW people must pay taxes.

It should be noted that you pay federal taxes as well. As Colonel Cathcart would say, "It's all part of the contract."
I don't have a choice but to pay taxes - it's that or go to jail.

You said yerself that he could go to prison for not paying. That would be a choice.
And the sky is blue, dogs bark and water is wet.
 

your lack of response is noted.
 
Evidently you missed out on civics class. The Federal Court System is the ultimate arbiters of federal law. They are the only authority in regards to federal law that counts. You may not like that, but that is how it works in the USA. Its pointless to debate a SCOTUS decision, because our opinions are all irrelevant. If you don't like the ACA, then you simply have to support candidates and convince your peers to support candidates that will repeal the law and of course vote in a president that will not veto their repeal. Good luck with that. I think you have about a zero percent chance on that.

you have yet to prove they are infallible. in fact I think you railed against citizens united and railed against hobby lobby.
so you evidently only think they are correct when they support your political bias vs the constitution.

please see the first amendment.

No they are not irrelevant. they are highly needed in cases of just blatant disrespect not only for the constitution but for the law.
I do support canadites that are trying to repeal it.

come 2016 I plan on voting for more people that plan to repeal it.

no because this country has had it with liberal failure since Obama took office. he will not suffer another democrat to lead this country into
another 8 years of stagnation and failure. if they do then they deserve all of it.

PS they SCOTUS is wrong. they got it wrong and they know they got it wrong. Roberts is a hack of a justice and should be disbarred and removed from the bench
along with all the other traitors on that bench.
 
Quit your bellyaching, you sound old.

First of all, 18 more months and Marco Rubio will be president of the United States. And he'll be the greatest president since Ronald Reagan.

Yeah. Because whereas Ronald Reagan barely knew how to run anything, having only been a multi-time governor and involved in national-level politics for decades. Rubio is a first term senator. And the last one of those who we hired to be President worked out just awesome.


I believe that the hand of divine providence has always guided America

I believe you need to re-read Jeremiah and Lamentations, and consider what the Divine Hand does to nations who reject Him.

America will be fine. In fact, it's never been better.

:lol: we have liabilities of over $100 Trillion and we only own $85 Trillion worth of stuff. When was the last time America had a negative net value?

We smashed and owned the Soviets in the Cold War, leaving us the only superpower in the world.

Oh yeah, and we're doing awesome at that.

Wait, wait, wait... no. No, we're not, because it's hard. Instead we are whining about being the only superpower in the world and trying to take our ball and go home.

We dominate the world's high tech industry

Yup. We are brilliant at sharing funny pictures of cats and finding ways to sell advertising next to those pictures of cats. I do have to give us that.

the banking and finance industry, the media, etc.

Oh goody. Because if there is one thing I really want to brag on, it's American media.

We are utterly and completely dominant on the world stage in a way that no nation has ever been in the history of the world

No we aren't. We are absent on the world stage. We aren't interested in the world stage. We think the world stage is annoying, it's a bore, and besides, george bush, like, lied about saddam in order to invade us on 9/11, or something. The Navy is down to the smallest that it's been since World War One, and we're slashing the Air Force, Army, and Marines as well.

You have to have will to be dominant, and we don't have the will. Take a look at any one of our major opponents across the world and ask yourself between Iran, Russia, and China, which one of these nations' leadership really worries that America might come kick their butt in an expensive, bloody war, if they push us too much?

In fact, you're living in the golden age of the American Era. Pax Americana, I believe they call it.

The debt is high, so what? Name one country that doesn't have a high national debt.

We are 10th on the list of debt to GDP. You want to know who has a lower debt than us? Canada. Want to know who has a debt even lower than theirs? Australia.

But that's just debt to GDP. Debt to GDP is only the beginning. When you compare our debt to how much we collect in revenue, we're literally right behind Greece. Then when you compare our unfunded liabilities to GDP.... :shrug:

Look at what's going on in the EU right now with Greece. The whole thing looks ready to implode.

Yup. See the point immediately above this one.

China? Would you trade places with China? I sure as hell wouldn't. China has a whole host of problems we can't even begin to discuss or it would take up an entire page.

:shrug: true enough.

But you know who I would trade places with? Canada or Australia. Because they are more conservative than we are.

And in 18 months, the Obama experiment will end, and the country will vote in a CONSERVATIVE who will be our next Reagan.

Sure. After all he's got good hair and he talks pretty - obviously he's going to be a brilliant administrator with qualifications like that :roll: He'll say the magic words to the Money Tree they keep behind the White House and all of a sudden we'll get 5% growth in GDP, the boomers will discover that they really did save a million dollars a piece for retirement and just forgot to report it, everyone will start marrying their childrens' other parent, and we'll pass entitlement reform allowing for privatized social security accounts to boot. The laws of mathematics will be suspended just for us because we think we're so special.
 
Back
Top Bottom